Do you think AWALT and high divorce rate applies only to the subset of women that are or were part of the hookup culture?

circlhat · 2015-09-09T13:53:00+00:00

AWALT is simply saying women aren't perfect angels and have flaws.

AMALT is also true, men will basically fuck you, just to fuck you and not really care about your end goals, something I will teach my daughter(like most of the world)

leftajar · 2015-09-09T14:22:35+00:00

Divorce rates were high before hookup culture. The introduction of no-fault divorce, which allows women to act on their hypergamous impulses and still walk away with at least half of their husbands' assets, child support and alimony, is why divorce rates are high.

alreadyredschool · 2015-09-09T13:34:11+00:00

Also most of the women married their first and only partner.

I think I know why they don't break up or cheat.

Comparing the two completely destroys the AWALT portion of the TRP theory.

Awalt is no scientific statement, "like that" doesn't even exclude differences. It's not all women are the same.

Just AWALT is not sitting well with me.

http://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3hb8s9/the_discussion_to_end_most_discussion_about_awalt/

Also I don't agree with the oldest teenager in the house theory, but that's for another thread.

Again no scientific statement, it's not even a theory. It's a shit test. But treating women like a bratty sister is good game, so it works.

Archwinger · 2015-09-09T13:33:57+00:00

If a marriage is good, the couple has money, the husband is confident and respectable and leads well, everything is pretty stable and easy, and no better men are throwing themselves at the wife, the marriage will (usually) be just fine.

The true test of AWALT is what the wife does when the husband loses his job, becomes an underconfident loser, starts moping about seeking her validation, doesn't lead his family effectively and turns to his wife for leadership and approval, and a hot successful guy who has his shit together starts acting interested in the wife and she starts getting that butterflies feeling for him. Does she still stay married and faithful just because, or does she justify to herself that these circumstances warrant divorce or cheating?

historyhill · 2015-09-09T14:33:41+00:00

AWALT is not literally a statement that all women will cheat, all women are horrible dirtbags looking to fuck over every person they come across. AWALT is that all women have a base nature to which they revert. That's all.

As for "hookup culture", nearly all women have "hooked up" at some point in their lives. I don't know a single one who hasn't had a ONS at some point, which is always passed off as a "mistake" (rather than what it was, which was a specific decision to have immediate sex with a very attractive man).

As for marriage, I think that what looks like a "good" marriage is in actuality a "functional" marriage; and that there aren't very many "good" marriages. I think the breakdown looks something like this:

Good marriages: 10 to 20%. These are marriages where there is very strong and sustained sexual attraction which was present from before the marriage; they are financially and emotionally stable; they are fulfilled and self-actualizing in nearly all areas of life.

"Functional" marriages: 50% to 60%. These marriages work, but something major is lacking -- sexual attraction, sex, money, job satisfaction, health, free time, or something else. One or both partners are not getting something major that they want or need. In almost all of these marriages, sexual attraction from Wife to Husband either never was present or is declining. Both partners plod on in spite of the problems, mainly because of lack of options and because divorce would be, or is perceived to be, worse for most of the people involved. Sometimes it's "good", more often it slips into "bad".

Bad marriages: 10 to 20%. (These are declining because the problems that cause these bad marriages are currently keeping most people who would be getting into a "bad" marriage from marrying in the first place.) These are marriages that are in serious trouble. There is constant conflict and distrust. They married for the wrong reasons - to please someone else, to get a beta cuck, lack of options, whatever. She was probably never sexually attracted to him, or was a carousel rider picking up her consolation prize beta cuck. He is a beta loser who had few other options. Most of these are dead bedroom marriages - sexual attraction is rapidly diminishing or nonexistent. Many times, the marriage has been through a serious trauma - usually infertility, child death or job loss -- that brings the problems to the forefront. Most of these marriages end in divorce. The ones that remain together do so for religious reasons or "for the kids".

Most of the time, the problems are a result of the wife's lack of sexual attraction for the husband. Most women are marrying men they are considerably less attracted to than the men they used to fuck. THAT is the primary problem in most marriages today.

EDIT: The point is that most women who are married today and are in functional marriages are women who have had hookups. And the hookups are a major part of why their marriages are "functional" and not "good" -- because their attraction vectors have been skewed by alpha fux experience -- they are disillusioned and disappointed because they couldn't get an alpha fux to commit; but believed they could because they got an alpha fux for sex.

Drenzard · 2015-09-09T16:42:51+00:00

I don't think women will divorce someone to keep up a statistic. But I do think that, hookup culture or not, they only uphold the marriage if their husband can maintain being "alpha" enough, in any variation of the word - they basically have no adherence to strict loyalty, like the christian vows of "Forever and ever, in good times and bad, in sickness and health, etc.."

There is no such a thing as sticking with someone for no reason during their bad times for women. If their husband falters hard enough, if he becomes a "beta" in the sense of insecurity, being pathetic, cowardly, sad, unambitious, a "doormat", or something like that, they won't care if he still loves them or takes care of them, they're just going to ditch him for failing to provide vaginal tingles.

Women don't have "maternal" love for their boyfriends or husbands the same way guys can have "fatherly" love for girlfriends or wives. Women have even evolved to evoke that emotion with their neotenous features, voices, and yes even behavior at times, to trigger a fondness for them like that of a child. Men will be drawn to protect the woman, to sacrifice their lives for her, and to strive to keep her for as long as possible. This is a necessary biological mechanism because women are weaker and they carry their offspring, so they are sheltered and treasured.

Maternal or paternal love doesn't require the recipient to be immature or childish, in fact for many of us, including myself, our parents still love us as they once did when we were children. In that context, a good parent's love is like that they will jump into the fire in order to keep you from harm. They won't discard you if you are too insecure, too pathetic, too much of a failure, not exciting enough, not positive enough, or shit like that.

Maternal love is basically being beholden to someone. It's a love which has been bound, sealed, and they key thrown into the ocean. It isn't going away unless you smash that gate open by I don't know, trying to kill, injure, abuse or betray that person. Some husbands love their wives in that fashion, but women don't. A wife is supposed to be your "family", even the first line of family, but she isn't. She doesn't love you like your mother or even your big brother might, and I'm not talking about attraction, but about blood bond.

To conclude this rambling, if you become "unmany" or "unattractive" for too long, if your personality changes in a way she finds weak or miserable, then she won't really care how much she's hurting you by leaving. Of course, there's a scale here. If a man can keep giving her the "gina tingles" throughout the marriage, then it won't dissolve. If a man stumbles periodically but manages to hinge his "genetically fit male" image in her mind, then the marriage will survive too, maybe they'll go to counseling or something. But if a male falls too far below her criteria, he's wiped. She won't feel "beholden" to him like a husband does to a wife or a mother does to her son.

[deleted] · 2015-09-09T17:18:08+00:00

The whole idea that TRP believes is that, when a woman feels she is married to a man that she "settled" for, by virtue of choosing him because of security, or reliability, she doesn't feel true attraction, and is open to the possibility of cheating. What this means is that, the woman is emotionally attracted to a man, and content with his money, but is not sexually attracted to the man in the way she has been with men in her youth.

speltspelt · 2015-09-10T02:53:40+00:00

What's weird to me is that TRP harps on and on about some factors that bump divorce rate but completely ignores others. Standard advice for people who want an LTR is play the field, wait until you're an older 'more valuable guy' to LTR, and then LTR a young virgin... but marriages with a 20 year age gap have nearly double the chance of failing....

needsomehelp3211 · 2015-09-09T14:59:02+00:00

Think of this as a loaded gun analogy. You don't know if a gun is loaded, but you better treat it like it is! Because if it does happen to be loaded, the consequences could be severe. In the same way, treat every woman as AWALT. There's a chance she's one of the (relatively few) women who don't display stereotypical traits that theredpill talks about... but do you want to take that chance? There's a lot at stake here, especially if you get married.

Always stay vigilant, always assume AWALT.

Xemnas81 · 2015-09-09T20:53:03+00:00

Well my parents divorced. Mom divorce raped Dad in 2008, when she was 47 and he was 45, and she's a slightly overweight working class Christian conservative with depression, anxiety and panic attacks who left the hook-up scene at 20something due to straining her back after fucking up a back flip as a gymnast-if she ever was in it. They got married in early 20s/mid 20s. About as far from Party Girl as I can imagine but still divorce raped my Dad who is basically a more socially awkward, less attractive and naively optimistic version of myself.

YouDislikeMyOpinion · 2015-09-09T21:26:54+00:00

You must append SMV to everything. Do I think a 6 will cheat on and leave a 9? It's less likely than a 7, 8, or 9 doing that.

RareBlur · 2015-09-09T22:59:48+00:00

If we assume that TRP men are unattached and are somewhere in their early to mid 20's on average we start to see their dating pool of women emerge as women who are more interested in casual hook ups.

Since most of the couple's you mention met in their early 20's we can assume that from their early - mid 20's they entered an LTR and stayed there, thus removed from the dating pool.

TRP is looking for women who are unattached so by starting where they are, the pool has already shrunk as women wanting LTR, marriage, etc are removed. As each year passes the pool of women wanting LTR shrinks but the women who don't want LTR and are more interested in casual relationships does not. Thus, patterns from those women start to be the norm.

It does make finding the woman who wants an LTR into a "unicorn" or at least, different from the dating pool norm. They do exist but are harder to find, even more so because they likley aren't a part of the club / hookup culture (where TRP tells you to go find womens). TRP has never really focused on finding you an LTR though, it's about finding you a hookup - one that is part of that new norm.

Beej67 · 2015-09-09T15:30:19+00:00

I think perhaps half the comments I've made in this subreddit are about TRP/AWALT selection bias. I do think there's some validity to needsomehelp3211's comment that viewing all women as potential psychos is prudent just like viewing all guns as potentially loaded is prudent. In my experience, the dumber a girl is, the more likely she is to exhibit TRP's "AWALT" qualities. That TRP methodologies aren't used to chase smart women plays into their selection bias.

[deleted] · Wed Sep 9 13:59:12 2015 UTC

[permanently deleted]

[deleted] · 2015-09-09T18:23:48+00:00

Man just end alimony and I bet a lot of people will be willing to fix their marriages instead of divorce. I mean in Greece we don't have alimony and out divorce rates are significantly lower.

dandar4600 · 2015-09-09T14:46:25+00:00

And you live where

HalfysReddit · 2015-09-09T14:57:58+00:00

I agree it's bullshit in that it oversimplifies a very complex idea. I think the end goal of the AWALT narrative is to communicate the idea that no one is perfect, we're all human, and that many people who were cheated on were just as convinced as the rest of us that their partner was faithful.

crestind · 2015-09-10T00:21:03+00:00

Having more partners probably correlates to a weaker ability to bond long term. So it's a vicious cycle.

"My wife is totally different though"

lol

Title	Do you think AWALT and high divorce rate applies only to the subset of women that are or were part of the hookup culture?
Author	dandar4600
Upvotes	17
Comments	88
Date	September 9, 2015 1:23 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3k8mhp/do_you_think_awalt_and_high_divorce_rate_applies/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-awalt-and-high-divorce-rate-applies.279728 https://theredarchive.com/post/279728