Redpillers, do you deny the male wall because you know you're destined to become beta bux?

capt-next-a-hoe · 2015-05-19T02:44:28+00:00

Never gonna be beta bux. As long as I'm able to breathe and not be mentally deficient. Pretty sure if I'm 40 and can't pull a woman without marrying her, I'd rather just pay for hookers than risk half my empire.

My SMV will decline, no doubt. I'll still be able to negotiate my SMV for a good deal that the sexual marketplace allows.

ECoast_Man · 2015-05-19T03:11:57+00:00

Your sexual market value won't grow as you age, but your beta bux value will. Let's say you're a millionaire by 40. You can date hot young girls and if you have a nice body they'll even like fucking you, but do you honestly think they aren't going to drool over and eventually fuck guys only a few years older than them?

I do because women are attracted to more than pure looks. They're attracted to looks, frame, confidence, leadership skills, sociability, all indicators of social proof really.

Yeah, obviously if you're old and wrinkled this wouldn't apply, but okay - Ryan Gosling is 34. Bradley Cooper is 40.

You telling me women under 25 aren't pining for their cocks and would prefer the 29 year old in a dorm room with no money?

127015 · 2015-05-19T03:29:57+00:00

Your sexual market value won't grow as you age,

I'm confident that my SMV is higher at 40 than it was at 20.

but your beta bux value will.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

By denying the male wall

You misunderstand "the wall".

[deleted] · 2015-05-19T07:08:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

MakeMoneyNotWar · 2015-05-19T19:50:52+00:00

Obama can probably fuck a 10 if he wanted to without handing over a dime. Putin probably fucks a different 10 every night without handing over a dime. These men can pull hotter women in their 50-60s than they ever could have in their 20s. Aren't they "post-wall?"

No, because women (with few exceptions) are attracted to power. So a man can increase his SMV by increasing his power. Physical power. Social power. Political power. This does not deny a male Wall. As a man ages, his physical power declines, and if he does nothing to cultivate other forms of power, he too, will face a SMV collapse just like women. Only by increasing other aspects of his power can a man maintain or increase his SMV.

However, men are attracted to women's fertility, which more or less lines up with women's physical attractiveness, which lines up with age. So for women, there is a hard wall that is a fertility wall. The fertility wall for women is much harder than for a man.

Male SMV and female SMV are determined differently, because men and women are different. How BP denies this when it's patently obvious to everybody outside of the western liberal elite bubble is beyond me.

kick6 · 2015-05-19T15:33:35+00:00

Women are "especially attracted" to wealth, status, aesthetics, and power in relatively equal measures. The majority of those are difficult to come by without ancestory handing them to you....or 30 years of work. So it's not that women are explicitly attracted to older men, it's that they're attracted to qualities that younger men don't usually possess.

RedoranBoneMould · 2015-05-19T02:58:19+00:00

Males decrease in attractiveness over a longer period of time, and can still be propped up by financial/social success. Most women just seem to suddenly nosedive in attractiveness, hence calling it "the wall." But of course guys get less attractive, and of course girls are going to want to sleep with other guys that have good bodies.

Your assertion that "beta bux" is what attracts younger women to older men is interesting and for the most part true. The guy just has to realize that and not allow women to take his resources.

Personally, I'm not worried about that because I plan on being married. A lot of guys on theredpill want to use info to sleep around, but I'm just interested in being a more assertive, powerful, and masculine partner for my wife so we can raise a successful family.

Lonny_zone · 2015-05-19T05:34:43+00:00

Purple Pill Male here. I think you may have a slight misinterpretation of what Beta Bux means in Red Pill terminology.

Being Beta Bux means giving all of your financial resources to one woman for a long period of time with the expectation that she actually loves you for you, whilst subjugating yourself to her every whim.

Being old and gross but rich (and/or famous) and landing a supermodel doesn't make that guy a Beta…well it depends.

Example: A mediocre looking 40+ billionaire takes a young supermodel out for lavish dinners and shopping sprees. She lets him have his way with her. A months into this he takes her on a dream vacation. That night, after sucking his dick, she drops the "what are we" and "where is this going" line of questioning. This guy becomes beta when he goes along with being monogamous with her (and believes she loves him). He is a true Beta and a pitiful man when he puts a ring on it with the delusion that she actually loves him and not his money. The guy is as Alpha as a mediocre looking 40+ billionaire can be when he drops that supermodel after the vacation is over (and if he was never seeing just her during that entire time).

The male wall has a door. Money and status unlock that door.

Is the middle-aged billionaire as desirable as Christian Grey? Fuck no. I'm actually reading Fifty Shades of Grey right now and the way women react to Mr. Grey is the Redpiller's ultimate fantasy (that he could never attain). Christian Grey could pull a supermodel after delivering her a pizza!

dejour · 2015-05-19T03:38:17+00:00

According to evolution people rarely lived to be past the age of 25 or so, so why would women be especially attracted to men in their 30s/40s?

That's incorrect. There have always been people that reach age 60 or so. Average lifespan was a lot shorter in the past, but a lot of the people dying were babies, children, teens, young adults, women giving birth etc. If one person lives 1 year and another lives 59, then the average lifespan is 30. There was a lot more illness, murder and warfare. Men in their 30s/40s survived longer than most and demonstrated genetic fitness. Women who were attracted to such men had a good chance of having kids who would survive.

By denying the male wall

No one denies that men become less attractive as they age (beyond a certain age). However, the idea is that men have an older "peak age" than women, and the drop off is less substantial.

Most men will never be as attractive as young women - but generally men have a gentler decline and so don't hit the same depths as elderly women.

ToshiroOzuwara · 2015-05-19T04:53:05+00:00

Hugh Hefner would like to have a word with you.

DrunkenOni · 2015-05-19T04:56:04+00:00

Men do decrease in value over time but they devalue SIGNIFICANTLY slower than women. The concept of the wall doesn't apply to men not because men stay the same SMV but because the impact to a man is lesser.

Your statement of "There is no evolutionary reason for women to be attracted to much older men." is wrong.

You do see lots of younger women with older men. Huge age gaps are not as common as small age gaps but a vastly greater majority of relationships the man is the older one. You're much more likely to see a 20 year old woman dating a 40 year old man than the opposite.

Lastly, decreasing in SMV and increasing wealth doesn't mean being beta bux. Beta bux is how you act with women, not the independent state of your body and wealth. Your implication is that you can only attract women when your older by buying them, which is just not true.

[deleted] · 2015-05-19T07:00:46+00:00

Man this op is delusional. 50 shades of gray is a feminist wet dream. To have a committed alpha while offering little in return. Go watch a movie from the 60s to the early 90s. The guy is in his 30s to 40s pulling women 10years+ under his age.

SlippyToadsWildRide · 2015-05-19T13:40:03+00:00

I sort of agree with the gist of your post, except for this:

According to evolution people rarely lived to be past the age of 25 or so

You are wrong on several fronts.

First, the average life expectancy for paleolithic men was 35 years, not 25 (it was 30 years for women).

Second, that statistic factors in infant mortality rates. So if 1 guy lived to be 70, and a baby died at childbirth, the average life expectancy would be 35 years old.

Basically, researchers found that if you survived early life, you would basically live almost as old as humans do today, assuming you didn't get killed by lions or something.

That being said, I don't think the "male wall" is as hard hitting as the female wall. Yes, old men don't have much going for them in the looks department, so some 20 year old isn't going to get moist at that, but at the same time, these old rich men don't really give a shit, since they're fucking a hot 20 year old.

Post "wall" men don't rant about how there are no good women anymore because the 20 year old he's fucking isn't physically attracted to him. They're like "hell yeah, I'm banging this young hot chick!"

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2015-05-19T16:25:29+00:00

No one denies that men become less physically attractive as they age.

Yet there are differences in the way a female’s desirability decline, which lend themselves to the phrase 'running into the wall.'

Females who are of average attractiveness or above will receive enormous amounts of attention and their associated benefits from roughly age 14-29. Somewhere between 25-30, the amount of attention they get declines, corresponding with the amount of power they are able to leverage from their appearance alone; they are no longer as tight, perky, and smooth as they once were. Because the source of a woman's romantic/sexual value (not to mention that a huge number of women ONLY ever peruse this easy way of being valuable) is overwhelmingly based her physical appearance, as soon as the physical appearance is gone, her value is gone with it all at once. Like stopping all at once because you ran into a wall.

A male's value is based upon a lot more things than a woman’s. Looks are one of them for sure, but there are many more important factors. The most important is probably social dominance, but abilities, wealth, and emotional manipulation skills (i.e. game) play a large role also. Unlike physical good looks, these other traits can improve with age if they are refined properly. The wealthiest, most dominant men are all older. The point here is that, even though a man may one day wake up and realize he's not as hot as he once was, the loss of his physical appearance has a much, much less dramatic effect on his overall value. His overall value will likely decline over the years, but not all at once.

So, men’s value declines as they age, but not at the near-immediate rate that a woman’s does. Thus, there is no male ‘wall’.

ManRAh · 2015-05-19T18:53:42+00:00

There is no evolutionary reason for women to be attracted to much older men.

Define "much older". non-TRPers seem to have this idea that TRP thinks guys start dropping panties once they go gray. Part of the misunderstanding between the truth of TRP, and the caricature of TRP.

Even in 50 Shades of Grey the guy is only 27... Why isn't he 37 or 47?

He doesn't have to be. Again, why are you assuming that TRP holds this notion? The guy in 50 shades of gray is, above all else, domineering and successful. Success usually comes later in life, but it is an attractive quality no matter when it happens.

Because it's a fantasy and he's supposed to be perfect... So he has the body of a young man and the money of an old man. Young body, old money.

No shit.

According to evolution people rarely lived to be past the age of 25 or so, so why would women be especially attracted to men in their 30s/40s?

This is FACTUALLY INCORRECT. People, on average, did not live long because of high infant mortality. If you made it past 5 or 6 you were probably likely to live until you were 50-60, possibly longer if you were lucky.

If it were true wouldn't we see most 18 year old girls fawning after 40 year old men instead of 21 year old guys?

Values change over time, and how people perceive qualities change as well. "Success" at 18 is being the Captain of the Football team. Success in your 20s/30s is running a business or something.

By denying the male wall you are dodging an inconvenient truth.

Define the Male Wall, please.

Your sexual market value won't grow as you age, but your beta bux value will. Let's say you're a millionaire by 40. You can date hot young girls and if you have a nice body they'll even like fucking you, but do you honestly think they aren't going to drool over and eventually fuck guys only a few years older than them?

Your SMV absolutely can grow as you age, because contrary to your belief, it isn't purely based on how youthful you look. A man can grow and become more confident, more stoic, more in control, and those learned traits can increase his SMV. Of course, at some point you can't make up for how saggy your balls are... that's a given. But the Male Wall isn't a wall so much as it's a slope that you have to work to ascend. Women will want to fuck older, successful men even if they're almost as old as their own fathers. But those men can't just be financially successful, they also have to have strong personality traits in order to make them appealing.

BPers... why do you deny that men can improve themselves and be attractive to young women even as they themselves age? Do you hate the idea of men out-pacing you in the sexual marketplace?

balc9k · 2015-05-19T19:37:39+00:00

The whole problem comes assimilating relationships to a market, classic example of Economics Imperialism.

There are two different objects of analysis.

blametheboogie · 2015-05-19T20:25:45+00:00

A couple of older guys I know have convinced me that if you stay healthy and fun and in the top 25% of men you can still get women 10-15 years younger until youre at least in your 60s.

I'm fine with being in my 60s and being with women in their 40s and 50s. I think 20s is nearly impossible and 30s is very unlikely so I don't expect that.

MagicGainbow · 2015-05-19T21:20:38+00:00

It seems OP is dead set on a certain outlook/outcome and it would seem does not even know what beta bux are.

It smacks of one big ''...NUH UH! YOURE WRONG!''

In my experience as a young guy i've found that most women my age go for older age twenties/even early thirties guys, the beautiful chad thundercock type isn't as popular as made out to be, pretty boys aren't all that desirable/masculinity/experience is seen as sexier.

From what i've seen, women of all ages generally refuse to go younger but will happily go a good bit older.

From my okcupid experiences alone seeing others preferences, basically don't bother with dating if under 25/26, even the pretty boys struggle and prime dating age is early to mid thirties for most variety.

cocaine_face · 2015-05-20T02:50:31+00:00

You're forgetting contextual status, and you're downright wrong about the age of 25 thing.

Most of the lower death age is due to infant mortality. Once you reached the age of 5-10 or so, you had a much higher chance of living at least until your 50s.

Most girls in their teens aren't interacting in an environment with a lot of 40 year old men. Only a few 25 year olds are.

Would a fit, alpha 40-something male professor at a college have his pick of the litter if he were allowed to compete?

Hell yes he would.

It isn't that a woman wouldn't necessarily prefer a guy her age all other things being equal. It's that they absolutely never are. As other commenters have said, status, wealth, confidence, etc are all key factors.

Age is a very tiny factor. Age is a much more important factor for men because it is correlated with two major concerns - one is attractiveness (the more important one), and the other is baby rabies.

The vast majority of girls over the age of 27 are absolutely hounding for babies (and yes, I'm sure some over 27 year old who doesn't want babies will chime in and say she doesn't want any ever or right now, but I'm not talking about her).

So combine less attractive with huge baby rabies and what you do get? An entirely unattractive combo.

Men just don't have those sorts of negatives until they start to get gross (which can be as late as 55+, but is frequently far more common to 35 because men take shit care of themselves). Hell, I've had a girl (ten years younger than me) tell me she can't wait for me to get gray hair.

If a 20 year old girl (and I've met several) is into guys with gray hair, why would I possibly be worried about any sort of wall?

TheGreasyPole · 2015-05-19T09:19:07+00:00

OK. You're massively misunderstood a lot of concepts here.

There is no evolutionary reason for women to be attracted to much older men.

RP agrees you are correct.

However, RP says women are attracted to higher status men. (Hypergamy) and unlike with women there is no age bar for men.

And, because status accumulates with age, think the "doctor" rather than the "medical student" or the "CEO" rather than the "management trainee".

So although there is no evolutionary reason for women to be attracted to older men per se.... The conjuction of "age is no barrier for men" and "women like status" means in practice women are attracted to successful older men.

Even in 50 Shades of Grey the guy is only 27... Why isn't he 37 or 47?

Because a 27 year old billionaire is more attractive than a 47 year old billionaire !

Don't thinkl the 47 year old billionaire would have any trouble getting laid though.

Because it's a fantasy and he's supposed to be perfect... So he has the body of a young man and the money of an old man. Young body, old money.

EXACTLY. Well done.

Now... Play that out in the real world.... Almost everyone gets their money as they get older, and women are less interested in young bodies than males and...... TA DA .... Older successful men have an advantage, because they got the status the young guys ain't... and because that status is a bigger draw for the chicks than "just being young".

According to evolution people rarely lived to be past the age of 25 or so, so why would women be especially attracted to men in their 30s/40s?

~Facepalm~

Go learn some science. You've got the wrong field for a start... You want History, Anthropology and Demographics rather than evolution here.

Second, you are misreading the mean age at death (25) with the median age of death somewhere late 40's/early 50's.

The large number of children dying <5 drags the mean way down, but not the median.

If you don;t know the difference between mean and median you are going to have to do a lot of basic reading before you understand science.

If it were true wouldn't we see most 18 year old girls fawning after 40 year old men instead of 21 year old guys?

Luckily, it's not true... So we don't have to consider this hypothetical.... But your analysis is still fucking awful too.

By denying the male wall you are dodging an inconvenient truth.

What male wall ? You haven't proved anything other than you can't understand basic statistics like "mean" and "median".

When you do understand those concepts, which I would consider approx middle-school level, the problem you think you've identified disappears.

It disappears a SECOND time when you understand Hypergamy as I outlined above.

Your sexual market value won't grow as you age, but your beta bux value will.

Agreed.

Let's say you're a millionaire by 40. You can date hot young girls and if you have a nice body they'll even like fucking you, but do you honestly think they aren't going to drool over and eventually fuck guys only a few years older than them?

Yes. Because the "hot bod allied to the right attitude allied to the millions" makes women hotter than "the hot bod allied to the wrong attitude held by the burger flipper".

Women get hotter for guys based on status, confidence, attitude, looks, muscles, height and a whole host of other factors.

Men get hotter for girls based on youth, youth, youth, intelligence, nice personality, youth, youth, big tits and youth.

I'm guessing you are a guy and, because you haven't worked out that "chicks are different from dudes" yet you're getting yourself all confused.

So... The basic fallacies that destroy the usefulness of your analysis are...

1) Not understanding women

2) Not understanding Hypergamy

3) Not understanding our theory

4) Not undertanding science

5) Not being able to tell a mean from a median

Go away, correct those, and come back and ask again... You'll ask a much better question the second time. But it's going to be a long break for you, you have so much to learn young guy.

Just to satisfy my curiosity.... Not judging, just asking... How old are you ?

[deleted] · 2015-05-19T02:44:27+00:00

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Nazrath2112 · 2015-05-19T03:34:10+00:00

The wall for women is looks because thats what they use to get what they want. There isnt really the same thing for men because being alpha is an attitude and not necessarily looks. The wall for men is the line between alpha and beta, which can be crossed at any age.

As you get older you make more money which means you can afford more but alphas also provide. They just decide what and when to provide whereas the beta has her decide what and when to provide.

You can also look up http://www.laddertheory.com/ since that came before TRP and explains more women attraction to men. Granted its 20 years old at this point but is still relevant.

jaimewarlock · 2015-05-21T14:16:19+00:00

You got it wrong. My increase in SMV due to my age is from an accumulation of wisdom, knowledge, and life experience.

In my twenties, I was a computer nerd with a very high income, yet often went years without getting laid.

I am close to sixty now, unemployable now (long story) and earning less than 1% of my previous income. Yet with my RP knowledge and life experience, I could go out and get a HB 7-9 within a day and probably a HB 10 within a week.

[deleted] · 2015-05-19T14:02:40+00:00

Money- older men tend to have more wealth.
Muscle- before the age of the fatties men used to gain a couple pounds of muscle every year making the older men stronger (until they reached the age of losing mass)

Title	Redpillers, do you deny the male wall because you know you're destined to become beta bux?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	8
Comments	130
Date	May 19, 2015 2:30 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/36g0l5/redpillers_do_you_deny_the_male_wall_because_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/redpillers-do-you-deny-the-male-wall-because-you.282089 https://theredarchive.com/post/282089

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