What is your view on being "submissive" (or those who like "submissive" partners)?

[deleted] · 2014-06-17T14:21:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Archwinger · 2014-06-17T15:56:37+00:00

On paper, everybody is okay with a woman choosing to be submissive to a man. It's her right to be submissive. It's her right to be the total opposite of submissive.

On paper, everybody is okay with a man seeking out submissive women (as long as she's submissive by choice, per the above paragraph and not somebody who's actually mentally ill -- though the fact that we immediately jump up to verify whether a submissive woman is mentally damaged and don't put non-submissive women through that same filter is telling about what most of the world really thinks about submissive women.)

Off of paper, in the real world, when we're not just discussing this issue in a purely academic sense, most people are inclined to think that a man who is deliberately seeking out "submissive" women (not just sexually submissive, but submissive in general and likely to defer to his opinions/decisions for most things) is a controlling, manipulative jerk who's looking for a damaged victim with no self-esteem that he can push around, and he could never handle a "real" woman, which is why he's "preying" on "naive" and "inexperienced" little girls.

Off of paper, in the real world, most people turn their noses up at a woman who accepts a life where she's submissive to a man. It's not 1940. She doesn't have to live that way. She can have a career. She can be sexually adventurous. Anybody who would give all of that up, marry young with little to no sexual experience, be financially dependent on a man, and defer to his opinions and decisions about most aspects of life, is clearly damaged.

I don't think anybody, here, now, on Reddit, is going to put in writing that women and men don't have the free choice to be submissive and seek submissive partners, respectively, but off of Reddit, in the real world, when we're not just discussing freedom of choice in an academic sense, the two paragraphs directly above this one will govern.

Cartesian_Dualism · 2014-06-17T13:36:23+00:00

I have absolutely no issue with submissive women or men who prefer them. Submission is neither wrong nor damaging - it is simply a sexual preference that many people share and that harms no one.

I think what you're most likely seeing is Bluepillers take issue with the fact that at times, Redpillers can seem quite intolerant of people who do not fit the submissive/dominant gender paradigms, and it has unfortunately leaked into the community and become a very prominent attitude - too prominent to ignore or to claim that it doesn't represent at least a significant part of the subreddit's thinking. If someone based their view on TRP purely from what goes on in the subreddit and the sentiments shared, then they'd see this attitude and be a little bewildered. I don't think anyone can deny that quite a lot of vitriol and judgment takes place in there, regardless of whether that has anything to do with what TRP actually teaches.

I don't believe all Redpillers are like this - not at all. But how do you think a post about a man who loves to submit to dominant women would go in there? Some would be tolerant, but there'd likely be a lot of insults and mockery thrown around by a large part of the community.

GuildedCasket · 2014-06-17T15:12:55+00:00

Well, as a very sexually submissive female whose kinks run the gambit from cuckqueaning to bondage/orgasm denial to incest rape roleplay, I think sexual submissiveness doesn't have much to do with your attitude outside the bedroom. In fact, your bedroom preference is often the exact opposite of your presentation to the outside world.

I think one thing TRP taps into is the fact that a slight majority of females do like some dominance in the bedroom, and are more likely to enjoy the sex in general if you can tap in to a bit of it. The problem is this is not true in real life, I've found - that women prefer to be treated as submissive throughout their day to day lives, that is, I think is untrue.

But obviously I don't think there's anything wrong with sexual submissiveness. On the male or female side. I know tons of sexually submissive men, they are everywhere and about as numerous (or even less so) as dominant men I know. I feel TRP would marginalize these people while upholding female sub/male as a universal example to be tirelessly upheld. That's the issue I have in relation to TRP.

Also, guys who look for subs are absolutely fine. They aren't criticized just for that, at least in communities that understand BDSM, but rather they are criticized when they belligerently assume anyone who identifies as a sub will submit off the bat when you haven't earned their submission. This is different from TRP, which has little to do with that dynamic. The criticisms levied are pretty different and come from somewhat different places.

Oh, and women who are submissive in general are great too. Just don't assume all women are like that, I guess.

accacaaccaca · 2014-06-17T15:57:55+00:00

The answer to both is that I don't see anything wrong with either, as long as it remains just a preference. If you start seeing it as all people of a certain gender must conform to it, then I think something is wrong with you.

GridReXX · 2014-06-17T16:12:59+00:00

I don't think there's an issue with someone naturally being something.

However I do, and I don't know why I feel this way, but I do take issue with people who only value people because those people let them be the star.

Idk. I've known people like that. Who surrounded themselves with weaker more passive people, essentially an entourage, because their ego can't handle anything other than that.

There's a difference between having an enigmatic personality and people naturally looking to you for guidance; and intentionally surrounding yourself with meeker individuals.

I can't put my finger on it, but something about it is off putting, but that's my issue not theirs. They can do whatever they want.

alush · 2014-06-17T16:03:10+00:00

Sexually speaking, most submissives (male or female) are not lifestylers. There is a stark difference between liking kinky sex or being a "weekend" sub and living a 24/7 power exchange.

What is your view on men who have a preference for submissive women? As above, if there's something "wrong" with them, why is that?

I don't have a problem with this. My problem is (and I notice this more with RPW than TRP, but the attitude is there as well) those who believe a 24/7 power exchange is not only normal, but what heterosexual relationships should look like, that this is the only successful formula for a relationship, and that as you said in your longer post over at the good ship TRP, all women are naturally submissive.

I have no problem with the BDSM community or D/s relationships, or men who desire a submissive partner. I have a problem with AWALT, and AWSBLT.

cuittler · 2014-06-17T14:10:24+00:00

Question #1: I don't think they're "damaged" simply due to being submissive. "Damaged" implies something happened to them to make them that way, that they might not otherwise have turned out like that had the "damage" not occurred. Submissiveness isn't an illness or mental condition, either. Now, obviously people who are damaged can also be submissive, I just don't think being the former necessarily makes you the latter as well.

In regards to men wanting submissive women...they're not getting shit because they want submissive women, it's because they either express that the woman is merely a sex object/cleaning utility/baby machine due to that submissiveness, and that all women are by extension only worthy of those tasks and unfit to do anything else. It's when men express the idea that a submissive woman is "the perfect unicorn", which is fine if that's what they like, but then take it a step further to say "and fuck all those hypergamous, deceitful, manipulative, non-submissive, feminist sluts who'll just divorce rape you after hitting the wall!" That's when shit starts getting ugly.

Question #2: No, I don't think so unless they're simultaneously expressing the attitudes I listed above or in other ways feel they don't need to treat their submissive partner with kindness and respect.

[deleted] · 2014-06-17T14:15:57+00:00

Sexual preferences says more about your personality than your gender. Now the dom-sub biologic polarity is the default setting but it's a not fixed as sexual behavior is significantly more malleable and variable than emotional needs that occur within a relationship.

zluruc · 2014-06-18T07:29:16+00:00

Nothing wrong with anyone being sexually submissive or dominant or switch if that's what they want. The problem is that TRP's idea of a submissive woman has nothing to do with the consensual, carefully negotiated scenes/power exchange/etc. relationships of BDSM. They don't start with the assumption that everyone is equal and then agree to exchange power from there. Instead, it's the idea that the woman is inherently inferior to the man and therefore he should be in charge. it's the kind of shite that gets run out of any healthy BDSM setting in a hurry.

la_sabotage · 2014-06-18T14:50:04+00:00

There's a difference between being a Sub in the bedroom and being a submissive personality. The two aren't the same, not all bedroom subs are wilted flowers outside of it or vice versa.

Yonderlander · 2014-06-17T14:15:52+00:00

At first I read this as a 'sexual' question.

I'm a reasonably intelligent, outspoken, confident woman and all my relationships have been pretty healthy and equal.

In the bedroom, I'm submissive and love nothing more than the man taking control and being a bit rough. It's just the way I am, not sure why. I don't see anything wrong with it, from my perspective or the man's. I also don't see anything wrong with not being like that, nothing broken or damaged, different strokes for different folks!

Then I re-read the question- The caveat is the difference between being sexually submissive or just submissive in general. Women who don't have an opinion, who feel they are inferior to men, then I get alarm bells that there is something wrong with them. I'd say it's because they have been downtrodden and told they are inferior, have low confidence and self-esteem etc. It's nice to have a partnership where the man takes a lead on some things, but with one person taking the lead on everything...that seems unhealthy.

In the same way, men who have a preference for women who are submissive in general life... yeah alarm bells. Why do you want a 'partner' who thinks you are superior to them, who has no confidence in their own intelligence and descision making? It kind of smacks of 'little man syndrome.' "I'm an insecure man so I have to feel like the big man in my relationship to feel strong and manly." Seems like the sort of guy who would have big temper tantrums and never do any housework. I tend to think a confident, moral and non-insecure man would want a partner who compliments his abilities with their own, who'll call him out on any bullshit.

Femme_Murican · 2014-06-17T16:04:45+00:00

What is your view on these types of women who actually do like being submissive and are wholly conscious of this? If you think there's something "wrong" with them or they're "damaged" somehow, why is that?

I love them, I pursue relationships with them virtually exclusively. I don't think it's at all right to say they're in any way "damaged", they just have a particular personality type, nothing wrong with that.

What is your view on men who have a preference for submissive women? As above, if there's something "wrong" with them, why is that?

As such a man, I don't think there's anything wrong with it for the same reason I don't think there's anything wrong with being a submissive women. Attraction to certain personalities isn't "wrong." Politically incorrect nowadays, perhaps, but not wrong.

In fact the only people I do have a problem with are those who judge others, either submissive women or the men who like them. What other people do in their relationships and in the bedroom is none of your business so why should you care? If you have a preference for non-submissive women then you should be happy there's more of them for you to go after with people like me around not interested in them, and those women likely not being interested in me either.

jerryandjerrysizzler · 2014-06-17T17:18:36+00:00

Question 1: What is your view on these types of women who actually do like being submissive and are wholly conscious of this? If you think there's something "wrong" with them or they're "damaged" somehow, why is that?

I don't know how anyone could argue that submissive women are "wrong" or "damaged;" women who are submissive in the bedroom has been the norm throughout history.

Femme_Murican · 2014-06-18T19:31:17+00:00

I am the submissive partner, I like take charge men and my submissiveness compliments my mans dominance. There's nothing wrong with that. My husband likes submissive women and I think they just recognize that they hate being nagged and want a partner with a different role than them

Kokujinkun · 2014-06-19T04:23:42+00:00

Question 1:'What is your view...women who like being submissive and are "wholly conscious of this"?'

I think there's something wrong with your question, but you're not clarifying whether their being conscious of it means they express it openly or not. If you're assuming AT ALL and there's little substantial evidence to legitimately suggest these women label themselves as "submissive", then your partners are less questionable than your mental interpretation of the experiences.

Question 2:'What is your view on men who have a preference for submissive women?'

As above, if there's something "wrong" with them, why is that? Well, there's nothing wrong with men wanting something. It's when we deny that we do or remain ignorant to why we like that about them. I pull my woman's hair vigorously when we make love. The only reason I do it is because I KNOW, through her VERBAL expression, that she wants it. That gives me the leeway to pull as hard as I want, UNTIL she says stop. You would call that submissive, but it's really cooperation. Perception's powerful, bro-dude-man-boy.

GODZILLAFLAMETHROWER · 2014-06-17T13:31:05+00:00

Question 1: What is your view on these types of women who actually do like being submissive and are wholly conscious of this? If you think there's something "wrong" with them or they're "damaged" somehow, why is that?

I appreciate sometime to have this kind of sexual dynamic going on. However, even if it can be nice for a time, ~~usually these personalities become boring outside of the bedroom~~ I am unable to bond and have a relationship with a full blown, h24 submissive person.

Question 2: What is your view on men who have a preference for submissive women? As above, if there's something "wrong" with them, why is that?

Depends on the guy, usually their sexual preference doesn't really play a role in their general behavior. I just don't really see a link between the two.

Now, the "weak" or "sexist" or "unable to handle _____" is more oriented toward guys holding these kind of views, that seems to be a lot more common in TRP than outside.

Edit: phrasing

Title	What is your view on being "submissive" (or those who like "submissive" partners)?
Author	TRPsubmitter
Upvotes	5
Comments	68
Date	June 17, 2014 1:29 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/28d7sx/what_is_your_view_on_being_submissive_or_those/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-your-view-on-being-submissive-or-those-who.285479 https://theredarchive.com/post/285479

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