Should we all be rethinking the young male subculture with respect to sex, and should be all be rethinking our attitudes towards “infidelity”?

pnadlerlaw · 2019-10-03T20:15:20+00:00

The question is, if it does work (not polyamory, but merely extramarital sex), then why would you have a problem with it? (Question is for both men and women equally).

It doesn't work when one of the partners has a problem with it (ie, it makes them feel bad), and I think most people, men and women, would have a problem with knowing their spouse is having sex with other people.

The way most people will arrive at an arrangement that satisfies their needs while continuing the marriage is, I would imagine, secretive infidelity.

Aaren_Augustine · 2019-10-03T20:50:01+00:00

"Baby, look. I know it's our money, but this chick needs her monthly car payment paid. It'll keep us married."

I just wonder if you outsource everything a couple does from cleaning the house to blowies, do you even have a "marriage"? All for the sake of avoiding divorce...but you really didn't have a marriage if you are out sourcing everything.

WestsideMoonWalker · 2019-10-03T20:21:39+00:00

I guess the point being made is, sex is kind of like cigarettes. You can go from smoking (4) packs a day to (1) cigarette a year ... but that’s a very long and difficult journey ... made more difficult the more cigarettes you were used to smoking!!!

How much of it is about expectations though. Teenagers are constantly bombarded with images and cultural references to sex, and the way it is portrayed is often as this huge thing. Realistically, it isn't. Sex is just sex. It's fun, but it's not some life changing experience, and it does not need to be. If your expectation is not that it is some cure-all for all sorts of problems (e.g. self-esteem, depression, whatever your issues are), it just exists as an activity that you can share with someone. That's all it is and in many ways, I think people are conditioned to over-glorify it.

Ultimately, I think it really comes down to sex being treated and glorified as this holy grail, this massive achievement or activity that has massive value (especially by people such as incels for example). However, for those that value sex less (or even not at all), there are other ways to express affection, which comes with a different set of expectations (e.g. a gift giver will expect thought to be put into gifts for them)

Second, if a couple isn’t having sex, or the sexual mismatch is so drastic, but the relationship is otherwise great ... wtf is the problem with extramarital sex?

Really depends on the couple. For some people, that arrangement can work. For others, the expectation of exclusivity is a key part of the relationship. Before getting married, couples should be able to talk through that and decide, if there is a mismatch, what course of action to take. Some people, even in a mismatched scenario, might be happy to compromise, others, not so much. I think this again comes down to expectations. If you go into a marriage with a partner with a lower libido, who expects exclusivity, and you have a higher libido and not having that fulfilled will drive you crazy, then clearly, it would be a much better idea to find a more compatible partner. However, if both partners can openly communicate, and the expectation isn't sexual exclusivity, then there is a much better chance the marriage itself lasts. However, exclusivity itself can have value to people, so expectations need to be highly aligned. Alternatively, the higher libido partner could agree to exclusivity and end up being largely happy with that decision. It really is very situational.

TL;DR: People expect too much.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-10-03T20:14:40+00:00

There’s this crazy girl I know who is very unstable and promiscuous. She’s an interesting case study by herself but one time she said to a girl she was dating “you can’t tell me what to do, we are not in a relationship.”

That was interesting to me because of the implication that you could tell her what to do if you were in a relationship with her. Her view of relationships is fucked where she paints a false dichotomy of freedom/being told what to do, but it’s not too far off from the truth.

People want control over their lives and then by extension their spouses lives. What power would a wife have if 10 prostitutes lived full time at the house? Why would any woman accept such a dynamic? In addition, insecurity and jealously are perfectly normal human emotions for that woman to have. Why should she even attempt to overcome such natural human emotions instead of desiring and obtaining monogamy? What does she have to gain by doing so?

pnadlerlaw · 2019-10-03T21:34:41+00:00

Women want to be in control of male's sexuality.. that's one thing so hard set in stone that nobody could deny this.. it's especially noticeable in ltrs and marriage. Women want to control men through sex that's why they tend to be so averse to the idea of their man going for other women for this simple need that they can not provide consistently (like 4 times a week or so).

SmurfESmurferson · 2019-10-03T20:11:25+00:00

So, you’re confused as to why hormones and lizard brain are overriding flawed logic? Really?

MrHerbSherman · 2019-10-03T20:33:07+00:00

and men are actually hurting themselves by actively pursuing or having so much sex between the ages of 15-22.

Tf does this mean, I feel like we have a first premises disagreement

Anyway I first of all disagree that it’s a chemical addiction like cigarettes, it’s innate like wanting to eat.

Also you can just lie about your history or Downplay it

honeybooboo50 · 2019-10-03T20:38:55+00:00

what if your wife told you today that she needs to have sex with other people, would that work for you?
i think this is a thing that couples need to decide individually, there isnt one specific answer

TheJim66 · 2019-10-03T21:42:42+00:00

If I don't have monogamy I don't need a relationship.Would much rather bang randos with no strings attached than become a cuck.Some things are a matter of self respect.Besides,if a woman wants to fuck other men she doesn't love you.

As for your first question ,it's not that men aren't encouraged to have more sex,it's that they CANT get more sex.Young men complain because they can't get sex or relationships and women complain because they get pump and dumped by Chad.

pnadlerlaw · 2019-10-03T20:22:01+00:00

Damn that was long.

As to the sex dwindling in quality and quantity, yes this is a common side effect of marriage, marriages where the one denying sex takes the other for granted.

I think that even if the sex deprived partner steps out resentment will remain. Sex is more than just busting a nut. Men also express love and show love through sex. For a woman to deny her husband sexual intimacy is her rejection of him as a husband, lover and man. This is the death blow to him.

As far as being paralyzed and her having sex, well if you think a handicap slows those down who have a willing partner, it does not. I can think of three creative ways to fuck my husband in this situation. Who knows what I could come up with if I put thought into it.

TLDR: If she values you she fucks you.

Mountain_Fever · 2019-10-03T21:41:07+00:00

I'm perfectly fine with the idea and practice of polyamory. As long as all parties are aware and consent to being in a polyamorous relationship. I don't care what other people do in the bedroom as it isn't my business. So, yeah people should be allowed to have sex with the people they want to have sex with. People should also be allowed to not participate in polyamory if they so desire.

It's all about consent really. Agreement to participate in a/multiple relationship(s). Agreement can be revoked at anytime, but that only changes your own choices, not the other party because then it's coersion.

gasparddelanuit · 2019-10-03T22:09:45+00:00

Men and women have competing optimal mating strategies, in addition to primarily being self-interested, so in the distribution of pairings, there is almost always eventually going to be a fair bit of incompatibility and a natural reluctance to acquiesce to the incompatible desires of the other side.

How this is resolved will depend on each couple. At the moment, the social model for couples in the West has a gynocentric emphasis, backed by our most established institutions and messengers, the goal being to maintain male orderliness and harness the labour of men towards productivity and provisioning. Clearly, this arrangement is in the interests of women and the subsistence of society, so any desire for change to a monogamous set-up is unlikely to come from either women or those who prioritise order and regularity in society.

The only way this would change, unforced, is if enough men left the plantation for it to have a deleterious effect on women and society, and it became apparent that men were leaving the plantation because incentives where better outside of current relationship templates. That would provide more leverage for men to negotiate terms more conducive to their androcentric proclivities, which would in turn alter our norms and expectations across society. However, men are so charmed by female neoteny, despite women's bothersome foibles, and are so wedded to sex, that things would have to get pretty bad for them before they left the plantation en masse, though some have left. They'll put up with a lot before that happens.

Reason and our rationalizations don't affect our sexual instincts. Our sexual instincts remain, regardless of whatever constraints we place on them via external restriction or internal discipline. Those seeking to discard sexual confinement and convention openly, will likely always suffer the opprobrium of "respectable" society, be it real or feigned. They'll have to discard any such conformity secretly and not get caught, if they hope to establish or retain a respected public reputation. So, it's not really a question of what people should do. It's a question of what people will do in a given set of circumstances.

87AudreyHorne · 2019-10-04T09:01:59+00:00

If you want to meet sexual needs outside marriage,get divorced and do it. I dont understand why marriage survival is so important if it survives in that state. To me the whole point is that you're together because you are all that to each other. If not, move on

[deleted] · 2019-10-03T22:28:30+00:00

Idk how things are like in today’s 15-22 generation. Judging from all the complaining online, on one hand, you have girls complaining about today’s “hook-up culture.” On the other hand, you have the bottom 25% of “men” complaining about sex in general. Maybe someone who is actually part of that age group and generation currently can shed some light on that.

I'm 20. No females are going to be complaining about hook-up culture until they realize that they were used up in their formative years and now no high value male will marry them.

meomeowmeoww · 2019-10-04T00:16:45+00:00

Why can't men jerk off?

wtknight · 2019-10-04T02:18:39+00:00

The sexual mismatch thing is something that should be worked out pre-marriage. If a couple is sexually mismatched before marriage, then they shouldn't get married. If they are sexually matched before marriage and one of the partners either wants a lot more sex or a lot less sex after marriage, then the partner's whose level of interest in sex has changed should either be willing to realize that they are hurting their partner and change back to how they previously were pre-marriage, or they should be willing to seek some kind of professional help if there are issues going on. If that partner doesn't want to change or seek help, then I would say that that is a good reason to divorce.

I don't see why other partners are necessary, but if a couple decides that they need that, then I don't have an issue with them pursuing that My point is that I don't consider it necessary. A couple should be able to work out their sexual compatibility, because, unless they completely abstained from sex until marriage and only then realized that they were sexually incompatible, that couple was actually sexually compatible at one time.

MisterJose · 2019-10-04T11:13:29+00:00

First, should young men be consciously averse to having sex?

I say no. You're only young once. You can only experience things connected to the natural happiness and spirit of wonder of youth when you're actually young. Shit that would have been mind-blowing if it happened for me at 18, it just wouldn't been the same if it happened to me now. If it didn't happen, I missed that window. It's not that I can't do those things now, it's that I'm a different person now. It's like if you never got to hang out with some buddies in a parking lot, being vagrant and laughing your ass of about stupid shit - I suppose you could do that at 40, but if you are actually still in that mentality, you've got a problem.

What experiences I did have when I was young are really great memories, and I wish I had way more of them.

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Workaholiconew · 2019-10-04T01:42:11+00:00

I've seen such societies, a few man have everything, most men have nothing, civil unrest enssues. Did you even wonder why native americans never got past the bronze age?

All in all, there is a merit to that, it would be almost impossible to have a woman or baby which is poorly fed. However there is a reason almost all men in native tribes around here become criminals in the capitals and those who stay to horde all resources like mini dictators... It is a factory of suffering as none is really free.

Mattcwu · 2019-10-03T21:57:51+00:00

Second, if a couple isn’t having sex, or the sexual mismatch is so drastic, but the relationship is otherwise great ... wtf is the problem with extramarital sex?

That's called polyamory and the people who practice it are called "polys" or polyamorous. It is opposed by religious, backwards-thinking, conservatives who are polyphobic. These polyhpobes are bigoted and keep polyamorous people from loving who they want to love.

CursedLemon · 2019-10-03T21:46:27+00:00

The irony is that men advertising or boasting about a high n-count are actually hurting their LTR prospects.

The androcentric worldview has never been about healthy relationships. It's always been about the universe's biggest dick-measuring contest.

In any case, most people view relationships as a pairing between two people who complete each other both emotionally and physically. If either of those two things are missing, what's the point of a relationship/exclusivity? At that point, you ought to be teaching all people, men and women, that it's okay to have "platonic" (for lack of a better word) relationships that are both sexually and emotionally stimulating. This reinforces the idea that intimacy of that sort is enriching without suggesting that one needs to be in a monogamous relationship to count as a whole person.

Title	Should we all be rethinking the young male subculture with respect to sex, and should be all be rethinking our attitudes towards “infidelity”?
Author	pnadlerlaw
Upvotes	7
Comments	126
Date	October 3, 2019 8:02 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dcw9wp/should_we_all_be_rethinking_the_young_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/should-we-all-be-rethinking-the-young-male.288442 https://theredarchive.com/post/288442

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