Shedding Incel/Redpill worldview seems impossible because it is so true

CaptinSuspenders · 2019-11-06T20:32:32+00:00

What does your life look like, OP? How old are you? Where do you socialize? What do your friends do for fun? What content do you watch?

In my life I don't see these trends, so I'd like to know what's up.

Rhazelle · 2019-11-06T20:52:14+00:00

Do you know what confirmation bias is? Because it sounds like you are having a major case of confirmation bias right now.

You believe redpill/incel theory is true, therefore you find "evidence" of it everywhere, which reaffirms your beliefs, and the cycle continues.

As non-brainwashed people, we can show you as much evidence as we want that those theories are not true, but if you at heart truly believe it and will not take in conflicting evidence, there's not much we can do.

Think about flat-earthers. There is ample evidence that the world isn't flat, yet it doesn't matter that we have pictures from space (NASA is lying!), we can give the math and explain exactly how and why the world is curved (no it isn't, I don't see it when I look into the distance, it looks flat to me!) etc. There is a way to discount everything that doesn't fit with what they already believe, even if it's as ridiculous as "all the world governments and scientists are lying to us!".

In your case, we can show you ample examples of women who love men that aren't muscular, tall, perfect skin and you'll go "no they're being used as beta bux! they don't really love them they'll cheat on them for an alpha!". And you will only look for evidence of women who do cheat and use men, discounting all the instances where women stay faithful in loving relationships (or convince yourself they must be cheating even if they in reality aren't).

Just like trying to convince a flat-earther that the world is round, if you've already made up reasons for everything and discount any other evidence to the contrary and insist on seeing the world in a certain way... there's really not much we can do for you. The first step you have to do is step back and realize it's a false and culty belief and be open to new information.

Every man and woman has different personal preferences. One man may like skinny women and another like chubbier women. One man may want an ambitious woman, and others want a more homely one. In the same vein, sure there are women who like the type of men you describe. But there are women who prefer something completely different.

I personally don't like muscular and bearded men. In fact it turns me off. I am much more attracted to an intelligent man who can challenge me intellectually. On top of that my man has to show vulnerability with me or I'm not interested. I am one who needs to be in tune with my partner's emotional state and want to know that they trust me to lift them up when they are down. And guess what, I'm not the only one who likes that. I know many other women with the same taste in men as I do.

Theoretically women like me can't exist in your worldview. So now you have a choice to take this conflicting information and accept that it's possible the reality is that different people have different preferences and what you state is just one of them. OR you can find some way to justify me away as all part of women's ploy to control men and that I'm lying and discount everything I just said.

One of those options is how you start working yourself out of this mindset. The other is how you end up in denial of everything that doesn't fit what you already believe and keep yourself in a cycle of confirmation bias. The choice is yours.

WonderfulDorothyOfOz · 2019-11-06T20:50:56+00:00

When it comes to masculinity and how men are supposed to look: There is only one body type women like and it is so obvious. Men need to be pure muscle, have beards and need to have perfect skin.

While I want to give you sympathy, we can only give you so much when it comes to close-minded thinking like this. You know this isn't true, but thinking helps feed that victim 'woe is me' mentality. I'm a woman and as long as you're not morbidly obese, I find myself looking beyond a man's looks if his head and heart (and self-care/nutrition) are in the right place. Not all women are narcissistic cunts.

Since I don't have any of these characteristics and will never obtain them, I am forever unattractive and will never get any woman.

Okay. Believe what you want, but damn. Muscles come with working out every day. Start there. Muscles aren't some magical unicorn only hot people get. Get 2 gallon jugs of water and use those as weights if you're broke. No excuses to wallow in self-pity.

... because women are naturally attracted to only these men.

Have you actually talked to more than a few women? Are you in high school? This isn't true.

... I can't continue living all my life in loneliness because I lost the genetic lottery and I'm honestly about to kill myself before this year ends, there is just no hope.

Please please please seek out therapy before doing anything. Google "cognitive distortions" and work on those. Your mental thinking is 'stuck' and it can be helped, but there's work involved. Get out of self-pity mode and work on bettering yourself for you. You will see a difference, I promise.

pandamojia · 2019-11-06T21:18:17+00:00

Sounds like redpill promotes stupid black/white think persona of men, which is rather toxic.

I don’t have the solutions, but can say with certainty that plenty of men without muscle, beards and aren’t the most masculine/dominant can find women.

meeselbon573 · 2019-11-06T20:55:33+00:00

Please don’t do any harm to yourself. Women are just not that important. Right now, you are unhappy and imagine that finding a woman would be the solution. But the solution lies within yourself. Try to relax and understand that not having a woman isn’t a failing or shortcoming on your part.

BMXTKD · 2019-11-06T22:21:54+00:00

It's true, but you can give the middle finger to the system. You can GYOW without getting involved with MGTOW.

GYOW: "I don't believe in eating meat. This bean salad is kickass." MGTOW: "I don't believe in eating meat, and you're a horrible person if you do."

yomimaru · 2019-11-07T20:45:47+00:00

Cognitive analysis time!

Off the top of my head, I can see the following fallacies in the OP post:

Black and white thinking ("you're either a full-blown chad thundercock or you die alone")
Taking it to the extreme ("exactly one body type all women like")
Predictions of future ("I will never obtain desirable characteristics")
Oddly specific beliefs without any real basis in reality ("men need to have beards", "skinny guys don't get laid")

If these ideas are so irrational, why does OP stick to them so firmly? It's important to understand here that as any other toxic ideology, rp (or in this case, blackpill) is based on things which are real, like women's dating preferences in this case. However, this inner core of real experience is twisted into a monstrosity without any healthy chains of reasoning leading out of it. It's basically a place beyond an event horizon - no matter where you start, you can only fall deeper. The first step of breaking from its spell is realizing that you cannot think yourself out of it. You just need to ignore it and hit the gym, or do anything else to be exposed to real people as much as you can.

MLBlue1 · 2019-11-07T23:25:54+00:00

You need to start having respect for people in general. Referring to men as Chad's and women as Stacy, is very disrespectful, and makes you look very immature and dumb.

The fact that you refer to people of your own gender as Chad's says so much about you... not only do you not respect women, but you also dont respect men. So my question is, do you even have respect for anyone or anything?

toastystoner · 2019-11-06T20:40:52+00:00

Hey man for me I've found the key for figuring things out with women is to not give a fuck. They'll come along when you least expect it. Although a lot of these principles are true with woman, and men, just see it for what it is. Honestly the best thing to do for anyone is live your life's purpose. Look at yourself in the mirror and say 'I love you'.

You may feel you lost the genetic lottery, my brother said so too, but to be honest most comes down to diet and lifestyle. Eat right, work out from time to time, and do the things that you love. Everything else will fall in to place I'm sure.

Hypergamy, monkey-branching, shit tests... fuck it all. Men do it too and I think you'll find yourself in situations where it's like 'damn I just did that to her'.

Doggsheep · 2019-11-09T11:14:50+00:00

I have alot of trouble understanding the redpill allure. Like I've always been an introvert, awkward, no friends, had a hard time dating, etc., But nothing in my life experience, science, or anything has ever come remotely close to aligning with the claims made on trp. Plus it was started by a politician. I don't trust politicians any further than I can throw them.

The whole thing screams "religion" to me. It's dogmatic, rigid, and seems to stifle the people who get involved. What is beneficial about something that tells you that being you is the problem? You shouldn't have to change who you are to be successful or happy. And you honestly don't. Trp is predatory... It catches you at your lowest and most vulnerable in order to infect you so you can spread the disease to others. You need to be questioning everything... If the redpill was so great, would you be talking about suicide right now? Do all married men have beards and ridiculous muscles? Are all women married to men who make more money than they do?

The answers to these questions alone should be enough to make most people realize that trp is bullshit. It's the mlm of internet philosophies. Alot of these guys are the equivalent of huns, peddling a product via cult marketing, in attempt to pull more guys in to continue the cycle. They talk about how great it is and what its done to improve their lives, when in reality, most of them are even more miserable than they were before they found it, but they don't want to admit they were taken for a ride. So they'll gladly sit at their computers, peddling their magic pill for all life's problems (this alone should be a red flag... There is no magic pill or one size fits all philosophy that explains how the world works), while their lives are falling apart around them because they've alienated themselves from everyone around them in favor of an existence that is skin deep, superficial, and is focused entirely on further entrenching you in a life of loneliness and the shallow pursuit of encounters that are almost exclusively with the types of women trp seems to collectively hate. Trp traps you in a cycle of negative experiences that reinforce their views in order to stay relevant, because certain people depend on it for their livelihoods (authors, bloggers, YouTubers, etc).

2019-11-10T12:59:08+00:00

As long as you live in isolation and have no real close friends with values different from the redpill it will keep strangling you.

Find your context and the people that are right for you and you will find happiness.

also:

> There is only one body type women like and it is so obvious. Men need to be pure muscle, have beards and need to have perfect skin.

No.

> as a man you need to be extremely confident or even better arrogant. Never show any weakness or else you will eliminate all your chances immediately.

you need to be confident regardless but no.

you problem is isolation,because incel/redpill views are basically worldviews for sociopaths or people that are isolated.

2019-11-06T20:13:35+00:00

Life goes on. You find a way to make due with what you've got, you make whatever improvements that you can, you take advantage of any opportunities you can reach and then you accept what happens. Even if women aren't in the cards for you there is still a lot left to live for. There are plenty of dumpy looking dudes in relationships with attractive women. You can find a way to make it work if you come up with other attractive selling points or lower your standards for a partner.

I don't think anger is the right response. Everyone has a right to define their sexual preferences however they like (with a few obvious exceptions). That might mean that the object of your affection does not prefer you, that's life. Some of us aren't going to make it. If you don't have an appetite for the competition we find ourselves in, your chances of success are even lower.

computerbone · 2019-11-06T20:54:04+00:00

Since I don't have any of these characteristics and will never obtain them, I am forever unattractive and will never get any woman.

The conclusion doesn't follow from the premises even if they are true.

Never show any weakness or else you will eliminate all your chances immediately.

This is untrue. Most of my experience with women indicates that they prefer a man who can be honest about their insecurities. That doesn't mean however that you should look to use pity as leverage to get a relationship which is a tactic pretty much despised by everyone.

To be honest I think these are cognitive distortions in keeping with depression. You are overgeneralizing and catastrophising. I think you should get a therapist specializing in CBT even if that means making significant cuts to your standard of living elsewhere. If that simply isn't an option please read the book "feeling good" and try what it says.

Xionema · 2019-11-06T22:31:07+00:00

^{Linking your} ^{original post} ^{for context for the rest.}

This is blackpill thinking under some heavy confirmation bias (which is somewhat inherent to the different forms of pills/inceldom ideology), and I'm truly sorry that you're going through this. But you have to keep trying to see the examples denying these thoughts, which become quite common once you are able to see them.

Quick example that comes to my mind, take a look at this guy. He's ugly as fuck, rather introverted, with a bunch of quirks and a 400% of nerdiness. Even with the billions, he's still ugly, introverted, quirky and nerdy. Yet he's happily married and with 2 kids. Did money and fame help? We can't tell with certainty, but it's very likely they did. Did money and fame change his genetic lottery? Nope, he's still a "genetical loser" and a robot-looking weirdo, ^{he just didn't spend his time in manosphere forums, instead he worked his ass to create his digital empire.}

There are tons of examples around you, from people without money/fame that still were able to get married and have their kids and all. It has happened through history everywhere, and those "ugly genes" have been transferring successfully generation after generation, through both men and women. People has different tastes and can get attracted to a variety of things. Obviously, certain looks and behaviours are going to attract more looks, but there's always some discrepancy, even around the hottest people. And don't think that it's different for women, because it's exactly the same. There's women unable to even find a date because of their looks, some who have developed their own blackpill mindset, some who throw AMALT as a tantrum at any 'confirming experience' and some who embrace celibacy, going their own way (and, well, some stuff not really present in the manosphere like the 'female beauty standards' concept, the 'body positivity' movement and more evident manifestations of women "showing their discontent with how they perceive the rest of the people perceives them from a physical attraction perspective").

Part of the RP/BlcP/Incel narrative implies that all these problems are exclusively a male thing, which can only convince people who have never met a women in their lives (apparently a lot of people). This is a human thing: you're born ugly, you have less chances to physically attract the average partner. But, ^{as with any Social Science study you can ever encounter}, there are zero absolutes and tons of exceptions. What is left to do then? Well, killing yourself is not going to make you more attractive (heh), try to put on the autoimprove hat and make some friends, go to the gym, make some money and all of that. That's the only stuff you can have some control over, opportunities for finding a partner will come eventually and are not necessarily under your control, so don't get obsessed with them, there's way more to do in life in the meantime.

MLBlue1 · 2019-11-08T04:09:37+00:00

Its not true, you are just too comfortable with your world view, you need to force yourself out of your comfort zone or you are going to go mad. You are too used to being a victim so you've let it dominate your thinking. Fuck what people think of you. Find some hobbies, get good at them until they become talents and then do things with them. Dont confuse confidence with arrogance. Theres being cool and then there is being a douchbag. One gets you friends, the other gets you in the hospital. Want hope? Cultivate it. Want to know things? Ask. Keep fighting until it hurts then fight some more. Stop talking to losers who preach the same shit to you day in day out, its made you into a person that if I were your Dad, I would kick your ass. Live a life better than mine and shove it in my face.

NamelessJ · 2019-11-08T07:10:45+00:00

There's a first aid kit on this sub, have you tried it? Your thinking is very flawed.

bunker_man · 2019-11-09T01:23:49+00:00

Beards? Beards are not universally liked. Muscles, sure, but beards seems more like a swing and miss in their part.

They aren't wrong that being attractive makes you more attractive. It's just not something only they know. They pretend that only they know this, but this isn't the thing people disagree with. What people disagree with is the weird sexist pseudoscience and the assumption that you should live totally selfishly. Nothing is wrong with saying it's good to stay fit.

_AwkwardExtrovert_ · 2019-11-09T06:54:12+00:00

I’d been growing out a beard the entire summer. It was the first time I had an actually decent beard come in, and I honestly just wanted to enjoy having that for a while. I cut it about a week before Halloween for some costumes I wanted to do, and I got way more compliments about my appearance afterwards. I know dozens of girls who’re way more into the clean shaven look than going bearded. Stop making excuses for yourself.

I used to gym fairly religiously, was really into getting that pure muscle look. Recently I’ve cut down on gymming and have started to focus on eating in a more healthy way, which has toned down my muscle pretty decently, but given me a bit more of a lean look, and yet I’ve never been as romantically successful as I’ve just started to become.

Your claims are the plain opposite of my life experience. You keep responding to comments saying what you’ve seen and lived directly prove your point, and yet none of those things hold even a bit of credibility for the lives I, and many other people live.

Take a second and realize everyone experiences life differently, and just because you think something is an absolute fact does not make it a shred more truthful.

If you want muscle, work for it. People probably starting off far worse than either of us have done it. r/progresspics is irrefutable proof of that. You don’t need a beard. You don’t need to be some “ideal man” to find a girl that’s into you. I’m going out with one of my buddies tomorrow night, a 5”1 or maybe a bit shorter lad (due to actual medical reasons), and he literally hounds me about how his ex still hits him up, and shows me some pretty risqué pics girls send him all the time. So I know that height stuff is all bullshit (as a dude under 6 feet).

There was a time I nearly got pulled into the whole Blackpill/Redpill rabbit hole. You don’t need to live by that world view dude. There’s so much beauty in the world, and you don’t need to blind yourself to it by letting your insecurities get the better of you.

We’re human. We stumble. We fall. But at the end of the day, we’ve just gotta keep moving forward, no matter what happens. Because the only alternative is falling down and giving up. And that’s not how you want to spend the little time we have on this Earth before we grow old and die. We’re on a fucking floating rock speeding through space. Our entire existence is a statistical miracle. Do you really think how you look matters in the grand scheme of things? Humans probably won’t even exist within the next million years. Use the time you have to be better, not to degrade or be degraded by the world around you.

Throwaway1938241 · 2019-11-17T17:16:52+00:00

You must be basing your observations on a very limited sample, which I is probably being fuelled by your own frustrations. Most of my friends have partners and... very few of them have a great body, a great beard or good skin. If I go out and walk around the city centre I see couples of all body shapes and attractiveness. When I was a student I certainly got a little envious when I would see that the most conventionally attractive women would be invariably with a certain type of guy, but this was a viewpoint that rapidly disolved with a little maturity and perspective.

Eventually the only real criteria for finding a partner becomes being slightly interesting and not being a dickhead.

theprivateselect · 2019-11-06T23:24:47+00:00

Read Models by Mark Manson

Throwaway1938241 · 2019-11-08T13:54:51+00:00

Well, that’s not what incels believe. They believe that face and height matter more than anything and will point out people like Chico Lachowski who is handsome as hell and tall, yet skinny, but women love him. First off, I think incels are somewhat right here, and I think most women prefer someone who is in good shape but not very muscular, and is tall and handsome. Now that’s just based on physical attraction. Women care about so many other things besides that. It’s such a long list and there are so many caveats, that I honestly don’t have the time to discuss it. But I’m open to it if you want to.

Title	Shedding Incel/Redpill worldview seems impossible because it is so true
Author	Throwaway1938241
Upvotes	13
Comments	81
Date	November 6, 2019 7:47 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/dslg30/shedding_incelredpill_worldview_seems_impossible/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/shedding-incelredpill-worldview-seems-impossible.299521 https://theredarchive.com/post/299521