699,178 posts

Man Affections vs Boy Affections

Reddit View
April 22, 2016
274 upvotes

The site is down sometimes so here's a cached copy:

Man affections vs boy affections

a while back i finally figured out what makes a good relationship.

most of the gamey talk is all focused on getting laid. getting laid is the easiest thing in the world, after you do it for a while. what’s not nearly as simple is to maintain an excellent relationship. i’m going to venture out on a limb and say that MOST relationships are crap. and yet it’s really just two fundamental principles, that determine the success of any relationship. it’s ridiculous that it took me so long to figure this out.

my relationships used to be sort of average. have a girlfriend, sometimes you get along, sometimes you don’t. sometimes she’s a cunt, sometimes she’s nice. sooner or later there are the annoying bits of jealousy and wondering if she’s cheating, and then all the arguments and breakups. standard shit.

to figure out why most relationships suck, eventually you have to look at the type of emotional connection you are seeking:

  • emotional validation from your partner
  • being able to ‘trust’ your partner
  • support from your partner
  • sort of, almost unconditional love from your partner, ‘as you are’
  • seeking approval from your partner

there’s more aspects, but that’s probably enough to make the point we’re getting to.

we are simple creatures. we are programmed to have an emotional connection to the opposite sex. to get a little weird about it for a second though, think about how this programming expresses itself:

there are only two types of man-love our brain is wired for.

one, the love you got, wanted to get, hoped for, maybe experienced – from you mother, as a child. that’s a key kind of emotional connection to the female. and, as much as that sounds fucked up, it’s the type of connection most men are trying to find again in their adult life – from a girlfriend / wife.

seriously consider this. look at the few bullet points above. what kind of ‘love’ is that? let’s not judge it, just look at it objectively. that’s how most men view love. they don’t think about it consciously, but that’s the love they got to experience as a child.

here’s some news: no girl will ever love you like your mom did.

before we get a bit more into that, let’s look at the other type of man-love our brain has wiring for:

the love a father has for his daughter.

again, we have to remove all the incestous, sexualized, weird bits of it, and just look at the emotional components that drive the type of interaction, expectation, dependence, and outcome. how does a father love his daughter?

  • giving emotional validation to the child
  • rationing trust, with having ‘hand’ – control
  • providing support
  • molding her in his image
  • giving approval, as long as the child does at it is supposed to

compare these bullets to the ones above. how do you feel about that? take out the mother / daughter thing. just look at the giving & taking ratios, look at where the control lies.

there is always control in a relationship. question is just – who has it?

there is no other emotional romantic connection wiring in our brain. it’s either seeking the love you got from your mother as a child, or creating the love you get from your offspring.

everything manosphere talks about fits into this model. the whole concept of ‘beta’ is embodied in how men deal with women who they want maternal love from. they are the weak ones, seeking approval, expecting this ocean of support, putting a woman on a pedestal. and guess what – it works for shit. mom love is done after you are grown up. realizing that means having to step away from that, coming to terms with the fact that this kind of emotional bond is DONE. being a man means being at the top of the social hierarchy. on the flip side, relationships suddenly work incredibly well when you treat a girl not like an adult that you look up to, an adult that you seek validation from – but like a child.

think about it. shit tests? from an adult, maybe. but a child? how do you treat a child who shit tests you? well … a lot of men haven’t grown up enough to be called men, so they still wouldn’t know. but for some of us, all that’s missing is this conscious realization. you don’t seek the validation of a child, do you? you don’t ask a child if it’s ok for you to go out, do you? when you want a child to do something, how do you address it?

i’m not saying, ‘be a dick’. you still game children, a lot. you want to reward them for good behavior. dealing with kids isn’t easy, either. but if you figure that out, then you also figure out a healthy relationship with a girl. i don’t really believe that the ‘asshole game’ is a fully evolved strategy. it’s just better than wanting a replacement mom. so when a girl has the choice between a grown up (who is an asshole) vs a sniveling boy who wants a mother – she will of course pick the asshole.

but give her the choice between a father figure, an asshole, and a sniveling boy and the father figure will win, every time. part of that is giving validation, creating boundaries, being clearly in control.

if you want a great relationship, start reading parenting psychology books (not the new age feminist ones). and dog training books. you can take this however far you want, once you get comfortable. xsplat likes to go full on daddy. it’s a genius move. a bit depraved? maybe. but better than the advocates of game stuff who act like children themselves – basically saying ‘treat girls like you are 12 and in a sandbox with a girl’. and better than mainstream culture which puts out disney shit and romantic comedies that all emulate maternal love relationships (which don’t exist).

my relationships have become something entirely different since i started taking the father figure approach. girls love it. they are willing to do anything and everything, and the general bullshit from girls is maybe 5% of what it used to be – before i figured this out.

Original Source (which has been down and up a few times, so we're reprinting it here): http://www.cedonulli.com/healthy-vs-shitty-relationships-two-principal-types-of-love/


Post Information
Title Man Affections vs Boy Affections
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 274
Comments 68
Date 22 April 2016 01:04 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/57947
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4fw60s/man_affections_vs_boy_affections/
Similar Posts

Red Pill terms found in post:
betacheatingshit testgamethe red pillpedestalmanospherefeminist
Comments

[–]RedSugarPill52 points53 points  (8 children) | Copy

Women act like children and look for men who act like fathers, because they are looking for a father to raise their children. It is their unconscious vetting process. They are literally acting like a child to see if their potential mate can act like a father.

[–]kinklianekoff15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not often I see concepts I haven't seen here before. This is good stuff. A mans respons to childlike behaviour in adults is necessarily a good predictor of his respons to children. If you can lead women, you can lead children.

[–]KermitTheeFrog7779 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

That makes fucking sense. Wowjustwow.

[–]TheRedChemist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a great insight, I don't know why I've never seen it this way before.

[–]bornredd1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have many daughters and this is 100% true. Women, even over 40, want to be treated the same way I treat my 6 year old.

Tease them, tell them to do it themselves, ignore when you are busy so they learn patience...

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]rpthrowaway0070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously, I've read a decent majority of RP material; your statement is what finally made me feel that mind bown gif. Full fucking circle.

[–]FreeRadical566 points67 points  (14 children) | Copy

You couldn't have posted this at a more opportune time for me. I am in a great relationship but I have slowly regressed to the more maternal love side of things and as a result I can clearly see the increasing mood swings and emotional instability. Time to fix this fucking dynamic.

[–]1dongpal21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy

fuck yeah. relationships is a man's work. women are passengers. men are leaders.

[–]NightShun12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Such a true dynamic. Women scream for "independence" and the weaker, beta male believes this "cry", caves and abdicates control to her. You wouldn't give a child freedom to live as they should because you know their brains are developed for chaos and disorder.

So why would you give your woman control of a relationship, an interaction that so deeply effects you? As the TRP maxim goes: judge women by what they do and not what they say. Remembering this and placing women back into the child-like frame, it all seems to come together.

[–]benuntu3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

This cry is the ultimate shit test. They want to make sure you're still in control, and worthy of it.

[–]IAMAwhitecismaleAMA2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Keep that ship running smooth, brother.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

There is a concept in the MGTOW community courtesy of barbarossa called male mother need. This is never discussed within TRP and calls for the need of a man for female validation and approval in an almost instinctual search for the validation, the love and affection that his mother provided for him.

In the past I called this effect myself as the heroin effect because it is almost like an addict being in an all encompassing hug where he feels accepted for everything that he is. Men believe that this can come from a relationship with a woman.

Thinking of what Rollo says about the burden of performance for men, that in essence a man must always perform at all times and maintain frame at all times in a relationship with a woman, it completely counteracts this inherent male-mother-need for men.

Relationships are work and I think for its most part they are more work than spinning plates for example. That must be understood... Nothing is more emotionally taxing to a man than a relationship with a woman. It depends what you want to do, I guess. I am in a LTR now for as long as it works and this was due to a decision by myself to have a partner lets say. However, I am well aware of the limitations of a LTR and the constant battering of shit test that are on the way. I honestly believe that a LTR is not for a red pill man until he knows what he wants and can accept in his life.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That need for the all encompassing hug is the exact same need you have during a hard run to just stop and walk. That craving during your last set to fail and just drop the weight, you can hit the gym tomorrow. That's the Siren of failure. The idea that success is so hard and respite would feel so good. It's a lie and following that Siren leads to suffering.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

The mgtow community is filled with great work. Though it can become toxic, especially the incels. I highly recommend spetsnaz to my guy friends and family and I respect your split with them. Women are an important part of a man's fully realized life. Male mother need is very real and the solution for me has become to accept my feelings and validate them from within.

It betatizes you to start to depend on a woman for your emotional validation. It both weakens you and it lessens her attraction for you. When I consider an LTR now I always think about the work I'm signing up for to keep the relationship great. And trying to be aware of the trap in a relationship. Believing that she wants to give me motherly love. To be my mother. Women complain about that shit constantly. They don't want a kid they want a man who leads them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Absolutely, Spetsnaz is great for men to realise their inner world and take ownership of their emotions. It's a shame he stepped back for now. Hopefully he will be back at some point, but if he is, he is not going to be in any shape or form as he was before.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He very much did help me. But I'm never mad when a guy leaves. I'm just happy that they said things that helped me out. And happy for every guy who moves to another part of their journey. He really has helped make a difference in my life so mad respect. And I've appreciated your videos as well. It's good to see you around here.

[–]juliusstreicher0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I'm suspecting that you aren't talking about the Russian Special Forces, correct? What ARE you talking about?? Do you have a link?

Thanks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Search on YouTube, Spetsnaz Mgtow and you will find the channel

[–]lakalahehe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I suspect r-selected women are what is most talked about, not K selected ones.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think Redpill men should get into LTRs at all tbh. Waste of time.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]1NPIF7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

In my experience, the girls who will call you "daddy" are the most feminine women of all. They understand their place in your world, they are better first mates, and they shit test with less frequency.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

watch the dog whisper. You would pretty much rebrand it as the slut whisper with some cleaver green screen work and it would be the same thing.

[–]_trpdude4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't shoot the dog by Karen Pryor. Really good introduction into positive reinforcement and how to apply it, also slightly touches on how to apply it to humans.

PDF

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My primary plate is one of the hardest bitches you will ever meet. She eats men for lunch and excels in her career. Total SJW also. But as soon as she's alone with me she puts her head on my chest and asks "am I still your little girl?"

[–]WarpingCat12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'd venture further. What you're describing has nothing to do with love.

It's just relationships with superior and inferior.

With someone superior (stronger, more influential) you:

  • can't hold them to their end of agreement
  • can't go away unless they allow you
  • can't afford to anger them
  • can't demand proof and have to "trust"
  • can't demand respect (and expect, really)

You can only try to win their favor by being good and useful little boy and hope for the best.

Hence, beta behavior.

[–]PillyQ1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am currently in a relationship with a male friend where I experience all of these. What can I do to level the playing field?

[–]WarpingCat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You only need to be able to tell him to fuck off, nothing else. If you are dependent on him for something - change it as soon as you can. Can't have friendship built on dependencies. After that is done, continue interactions only on the terms you are comfortable with and tell him to fuck off with anything you aren't. If you have some specific situation in mind, pm me.

[–]NeoreactionSafe23 points24 points  (6 children) | Copy

 

Men love women, women love children, children love puppies.

 

The OP is entirely correct.

A beta boy thinks he's seeking a mother, a Red Pill man wants to train a puppy.

 

[–]RedSugarPill32 points33 points  (5 children) | Copy

Women act like children and look for men who act like fathers, because they are looking for a father to raise their children. It is their unconscious vetting process. They are literally acting like a child to see if their potential mate can act like a father.

[–]NeoreactionSafe10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

As long as man has Game and Power there is no problem.

It's when the man is unaware of how things work and the Game is reversed where the man serves the woman that things go badly.

Masculine polarity means the man is "above" the woman.

There is a story about Lillith where she refuses to allow man to be "above" her and she becomes a demon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

...this story formed the basis of Feminism.

http://lilith.org

 

[–]Wel1080 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I take this approach often. But sometimes women don't allow themselves to fall beneath. Is it something I'm lacking, or is it that some woman are too far gone in feminism?

[–]NeoreactionSafe2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Masculine polarity means Frame or ego boundry. (internal Freedom)

Men desire Freedom, Women desire Access.

So if you have a Free Will and a woman desires to be near that things are fine.

If you cave into her and lack Freedom... are her slave... then she is "above" and you are "below".

The key is Freedom... women can not be free because their hamster brains don't work that way. Even the freaky Feminists aren't free they just have weaponized themselves in a way that they can Shit Test with greater brutality and feel less guilt about it.

 

[–]Wel1080 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

yeah i can see that. I need to work on this. Definitely my weakness

[–]NeoreactionSafe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Frame is your Freedom.

Frame is ego boundry.

Frame is "setting boundries". (another good one)

Frame is a "Firewall".

Etc...

[–]PabloEscoba5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is a great post. A strong male frame is not validation seeking. You GIVE validation. You SET boundaries. You PUNISH and REWARD as boundaries are adhered/not adhered to.

[–]Wel1081 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Give me an example of punishing behaviors aside from the obvious? I feel that I might come off too strong when they do something I do not approve of.

[–]1StoicCrane3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lo and behold! The reason why women say "More Daddy, MORE!" when taking it from the back than "More Boy, MORE!"

Also explains the mental frames of men who call women "Sexy Momma" or "Mamacita".

-Tastefully put boys chase girls, women pursue men or the spectrum most of us have come to know:

Men > Women > Children (including BP men mindset aka Manchild) > Puppies

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

great article, i liked how you made the comparision alpha-beta = father-son way of relate to the woman.

i think you hit the point!

good job

[–]NaughtyFred2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

i don’t really believe that the ‘asshole game’ is a fully evolved strategy. it’s just better than wanting a replacement mom. so when a girl has the choice between a grown up (who is an asshole) vs a sniveling boy who wants a mother – she will of course pick the asshole.

Thought provoking.

I've often thought that women date the "asshole" due to some qualities that the asshole has rather than actually enjoying the "asshole". He's just the imperfect package those qualities happen to come in. This section of your post indicates some level of convergence with my theory.

Can you perceive an evolved strategy (or evolved man) beyond "asshole game"?

If so, what does it entail?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Can you perceive an evolved strategy (or evolved man) beyond "asshole game"?

Amused Mastery

https://therationalmale.com/2012/09/14/amused-mastery/

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amused Mastery

The same way an adult should see how a child cries, throws a tantrum, or pouts to get their way.... An adult should understand the child's attempt manipulation. If the adult sees it for what it is, they don't react, they just deal with the child appropriately. Likewise, a man should see women's behaviour in the same light. Know what you want, know your boundries, and hold firm. Children learn. If your woman doesn't... next.

[–]uniquevoid2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great post, thank you OP

Remember guys, the most important woman in your life is your mother: respect her, take care of her and make her happy (as long as she was/is a good mother)

Other women: They are someone you have to educate like a child and be a 'father' to her

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"She want me to make her my wife, hold up, get outta my sight Never loved a bitch cept my momma , please, won't be the first in my life"

Your comment made me think of this song, GMEBE Bandz - Demons

[–]stemgang5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

Did you know that the "Dog Whisperer" tried his training stuff on his wife and ended up getting divorce-raped?

[–]MadDannyBear7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

He was probably a dumbass about it and made it real obvious.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

If a beta enters a relationship then tries to flip the script.... it might work... or, once the woman realizes she's lost control, she flips the fuck out.

Once a beta, always a beta (in her eyes).

If a woman has been with too many alphas and is done being dumped (or has some massive insecurity which makes her a control freak), she'll find a beta to control the way she's been controlled. When the dude breaks from that control, there's hell to pay.

Similarly, that's why mate guarding is useless. If she wants to rebel, she will. It's like telling a child not to take a cookie. You can punish the child by isolating them (send to room). A similar punishment is to remove yourself from the relationship.

A good woman follows the dynamics as long as the man does his job controlling himself and thus the relationship. Failure to maintain frame (beginning with the entire process of finding a mate) shows a male that hasn't discovered his frame. There's a way to select a trainable dog, if you don't, training a rescue or a wild dog is near impossible. A boy relies on luck, a man relies on skill.

[–]murraay_1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

But what if you didn't get the love you wanted from your mother?

[–]Whirly3151 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You decide to grow and overcome your disadvantages in life

[–]bornredd1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Then you are ahead of the game. Happened to me and I think that it made my younger days much more successful with girls.

[–]murraay_1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Could you elaborate for me? My understanding is that mother issues develops into male mother need (effectively a unconscious desire to seek the affirmation from women you never got from your mother).

I've see that pattern hold me back with women often, but I've never seen it help me.

[–]bornredd1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

If you accept that your mother never loved you unconditionally (and downright hated you for existing in my case), then you can more easily see that no one is going to love you for you.

Get your affirmation from yourself. You don't need them. You never have. You made it to adulthood without motherly love, why bother with it now?

[–]murraay_1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I understand now. I reflected that lack of unconditional love onto myself, as if I were undeserving of being loved. I childishly reasoned that if I were a better person, then my mother would magically fix herself, get over her issues, and give me what I wanted.

It's like trying to get candy out of a broken vending machine and then getting mad at yourself because your money isn't good enough.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

unconditional love is bull shit and doesn't exist. It's mostly just a way for toxic people (e.g. mothers who can't validate their kids) to manipulate said kids through anxiety, guilt, and ignorance.

Please read "fear of intimacy" by Firestone. It's very thought provoking and will help you with your issues.

[–]lanky320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Very good analogy. I am very well aware of what game is and employ it my routine life. However, the analogy that you have given would be very easy for a newbie to understand. You have expressed well. Good job!

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is literally why my last relationship fell apart. It started this way and I fell I to the trap of bacKing down. She then resented me for it and it got fucked up. The reality is she was a co trolling freak and I was raised by a single mother, so I learned to stand down when people pushed. Unfortunately that's not how it works.

Still, this realization should be instilled in our mentalities as deep as possible. It clears all irrational self-doubt and boosts confidence insanely.

[–]QPRCHOC[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think you draw an important distinction here. I don't feel it's necessary to be an asshole to attract women in the most effective way. Sure, women will always choose an asshole over a beta pussy who can't decide anything for himself, but what women desire biologically is a man to take charge.

I can't find it in me to treat women like shit, but on the contrary leading, commanding and taking charge are very desirable traits that should be worked on in my opinion.

I find putting myself in the shoes of a chick helps. Just ask yourself, what would I prefer: Somebody who isn't confident asking me what I'd like to do, and shifting the responsibility on me? Or a more assured man coming up to me and telling me to meet him for a bottle of wine tomorrow night? It's easy to understand what women go for and why they go for it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

1) get rid of that "you don't have to be an asshole to be alpha" mindset. It is faggoty. Bitches will choose an asshole dark triad alpha over nice alpha every time.

2) treat women like shit. They love it, and if you don't treat them like shit, they lose attraction and think something is wrong with you for being nice to them.

[–]RedCrotch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is 100. Look at the book the Mature Masculine: King, Warrior, Magician and Lover by Robert Greene I believe.

The lover archetype when it isn't balanced in the mature masculine seeks out maternal like relationships. Super awesome to see this being realized through direct experiences like yours.

Thanks for taking the time to go through this, it will help a lot of people for sure!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Speaking as a male school teacher - As a male teacher you figure this shit out. You have so many little kids in your class looking up at you, you start to operate from the basis of being the adult. You hold the kids hands through all their assignments. But when you have hours of grading hanging over your own head, you don't look for sympathy. You just do it because that's your job. You do your job and you have a happy classroom.

My male teacher friends - they don't drive the nicest cars, or wear the nicest clothes. But their wives and girlfriends are just all over them and feel like the luckiest women in the world.

---The caveat is you gotta be working in a good school. Otherwise life just sucks.

[–]RP_Vergil0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's exactly how a Male transit from the end of childhood to adulthood.

From wanting to creating, even in relationship. He received the proper love from his parents, knowing how to behave, knowing boundaries and what's right and wrong for him. When he mature, he looks to Create that form of love he received by teaching how his kids behave, how his wife will teach his kids.

That is a Man and rightfully a Man's Job in being the head of the family. Not this feminist bullshit that Woman are the better parent. Not the socially accepted rubbish that Patriarchal is oppressive.

If you spare the rod, you spoil not only the child, but the whole family.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If I had a daughter I would want to mould her as you say. So I would want to FIX HER PROBLEMS or help her fix her problems. This is not advised by most on TRP so how would you handle this?

Thanks

[–]All__fun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

if you want a great relationship, start reading parenting psychology books (not the new age feminist ones). and dog training books.

I am currently reading this book on Influence.

Influence: Science and Practice by Robert Cialdini

OP do you have any book recommendations ?

Does anyone else have any good Book recommendations ??

[–]GoatwithHorns0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The fatherly type, the way that you describe it, is something that gives me hope in a way. However, would you say it's universally applicable as in that you don't need certain physical characteristics? This might just be my hamster, though. - 5'6" manlet (i lift, though) - Young looking face. High cheek bones but weak jaw - Lack of game, but is ofc fixeable.

Or maybe I should just man up and practice: Lifting, meditating daily, talk to people more (men and women), read, advance in my career.

[–]bornredd0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Grow a beard and lift.

I was once 110lbs soaking wet and looked 15 at age 22.

No longer. Women at my old work called me "daddy" all day - as a come on/compliment.

[–]GoatwithHorns0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can't really grow a full one. But I will make do with other resources.

[–]Renaissancepirate0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks Redpillschool for posting this, it's nice to be reminded of the fundamentals of TRP.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2020. All rights reserved.

created by /u/dream-hunter