Your take on Hateful MRA's, and what can we do differently?

DignifiedAlpaca · 2019-11-15T08:31:33+00:00

I think that the men's rights movement is going to get labelled as a hate movement no matter what we do. That is the easiest way for people who are against any rights movement to convince people to not want to associate with it.

That being said, I personally think the best thing we can do is act as good role models to counteract that message as much as we can. It is impossible to convince everyone, but when open-minded people come to this subreddit, they will see that there are a lot of good people here as long as that is who we continue to be.

2019-11-14T20:20:41+00:00

I've experienced in conversations, that people often consider men's rights activists as hate groups or the like.

Bigots always claim the group they are bigoted against is really the bad guy.

Lethn · 2019-11-14T19:29:29+00:00

I think it's utter fiction, I have maybe found one or two people in this sub that could even come closet to fitting the description idiot feminists and people who believe them. The people who post the way they describe are absolutely not of the sub or a part of MRM generally and this is why they for example try to conflate pick up artists and so on with MRAs because they have nothing on the community here.

Think about it, think about how vindictive and vicious these people are when it comes to MRAs in particular. Everyone here is held to a much higher standard than normal so if any one of us even slipped up they would be having a fucking field day and spamming quotes everywhere like they do with youtubers like Sargon of Akkad and so on.

It's pure propaganda, so here's how I deal with them, I know their lying, so I call their bluff and more often than not these shit heads end up deleting their posts because they know they've been caught out. It's actually embarrassing watching them behave like this because the least they could do is just come clean and admit people here aren't what they thought they were but they would rather try and spread lies about everyone to win victim points with their fake friends.

These people crumble under the slightest bit of scrutiny, that's how you deal with them, you don't entertain their bullshit in the slightest.

Svenskbtch · 2019-11-15T15:41:01+00:00

I find it exceedingly difficult to voice even modest, highly fact-based dissent without immediately incurring the suspicion of anything from frustration to outright misogyny. Not only around inveterate feminists; among people in general. Even conservatives, who might delight in ridicule at yet another loony feminist initiative, blanch at the mere suggestion that DV affects men to any significant, let alone equal, extent. You can send them as many links as you want; most find it much easier to dismiss you than to engage.

But while of course we are not misogynists, I do find that many here, and on AVFM, often resort to the same radicalism that we rightly blame feminism for. Frustration over individual cases often gives way to generalisations about an entire gender, and we often pick the less charitable interpretations. That is understandable - and, of course, part and parcel of activism overall (I actually do not think the left sees a world that hates women or that the right thinks immigration is the end of civilisation).

NAWALT_VADER · 2019-11-15T04:31:23+00:00

The people who generally consider MRAs as a hate group are Feminists. I consider Feminists as a hate group.

We can continue to highlight the very many examples of how government-endorsed and media-sponsored feminists create sexist programs that benefit only women, or how they gather to protest against support systems for men, or even when they call for the death of men on Twitter or a national television channel. They can try to find any endorsed or sponsored MRA speaker publicly calling for the death of random or specific women, but they will fail.

Reality will eventually prevail, so long as we continue to reveal it, by talking about it and telling others.

ZimbaZumba · 2019-11-15T16:57:31+00:00

I disagree with some of your premises. In any group there are going to be bad apples. I'd argue the number of undesirable people claiming to be MRA's is not statistically signficant, if anything it is the other way around.

The MRM is not a single unit, any attempt at large scale organisation has been stifled by very powerful forces. I need not tell you where these forces lay. There has been a very effective campaign of demonisation of the MRM. People are largely lazy thinkers and will follow the opinions of their group and what they hear. Feminist forces clearly control the message and have systematically and savagely demonised the MRM. This has been done through the media, academia and organisations like the SPLC. Eventually this type of opinion becomes entrenched and beyond debate.

Read Paul Elam and the Redpill, which is probably the most demonised MRM outlet. Objectively, his writings are certainly strident but absolutely nothing in comparison to maistream feminist writers, eg Guardian & WaPo. Feminists have had decades to perfect the art of the normalisation of ideas within a society; in particular MRM=bad, Feminism = good, Shitting on Men = OK.

I think these are the mechanisms which have led to your opinions. All assuming you are being intellectually honest in the first place.

The_Best_01 · 2019-11-15T13:12:25+00:00

Nothing, except for ignoring and downvoting the few actual sexist MRAs. Banning them would be authoritarian. The vast majority of us are not sexist and whatever we do, the types of people against us will generalize all of us as being like that, even if they know it's not true.

goodmod · 2019-11-15T02:07:05+00:00

Stickied because like it or not, there are many people who think we *are* a hate group. This is largely due to feminist propaganda, and we should discuss ways to counteract it.

The manosphere covers a wide spectrum, from Mens Lib to Men's Rights, Red Pill, MGTOW, Incel, and genuine misogynists. There is some overlap between these groups.

That means there will inevitably be some true haters at the edges of the MRM, who will express their views. And feminists will look for them, hoping to claim that their views are typical.

On r/MensRights we have Rule 10 which bans hatred against birth groups, including men, women and others who had no choice in becoming what they are. When we find real bigots, we ban them. But we moderators can't do that alone, because there are too many comments for us to read them all.

Please help us by clicking "report" under hateful posts or comments.

2019-11-14T20:21:33+00:00

And... this feels like our regularly scheduled tone policing...

People who have a vested interest in us not succeeding call us a hate group, what can we change so they won't do that...

fuck that.

Kuramo · 2019-11-15T03:22:54+00:00

So, even thought we as men are facing several injusticies compared to women, we must shout our mouths because we could be seen as ''hateful''. Well, to hell with that. I'm sick to get muted because for being male

DubsPackage · 2019-11-14T22:38:16+00:00

My take on it is, you should consider the source of such accusations.

I blame feminists more, because they do it more often and they have the institutional power (and government budgets) on their side, so they should be held to those standards.

MRA's have no institutional power, so it's a case of "out of missiles, down to rude hand gestures and harsh language."

LettuceBeGrateful · 2019-11-15T19:56:16+00:00

The number one thing each individual can do is be deliberate with your speech. If you don't like it when men are generalized, don't generalize women. If you don't want men beholden to traditional gender roles, don't have a comment history of saying that society is better off with women as stay-at-home mothers.

Be consistent. Most of the time, your ideological consistency will stand in stark contrast to their sexist double standards, and they hate that.

Beyond that:

Ask for proof any time someone claims we're hatful. I've seen comments equating us to extremists. It's ridiculous. Demand proof, and almost every time, you'll get an answer like, "oh, well I don't see anything now, but trust me, you guys are really bad." Get the haters to admit they don't have evidence for their hate.
Continue to reach out to women, both online and IRL. I know this is a difficult piece of advice for some men, especially those who are MGTOW or have otherwise been deeply hurt by women. All I can say is, I'm of the belief that in my short time on Earth, I want to leave this planet better than I found it. That means sharing positive stories about women, standing up for women who can't stand up for themselves, and of course, doing all the same with men.
If you see a sexist comment here, always downvote. More downvotes shows that we don't condone sexism. If it's really bad, report it. We don't get as many bigots as people think, but they do exist, and I've seen the mods ban them.

It's sad that in an age of open information, men are still fighting on so many fronts to be heard, but the best we can do is keep communicating and reminding people that men are human beings, too. A few bad apples doesn't negate this simple notion.

iainmf · 2019-11-15T02:41:56+00:00

What makes someone an MRA?

shit-zen-giggles · 2019-11-15T13:46:16+00:00

One thing is to ask the person for concrete examples and then address those on the merits of their contents.

Other thing would be the "repetition" argument: If you have to repeat yourself over and over again, it's natural to get frustated.

Male_Positive · 2019-11-15T23:21:00+00:00

Beating yourself up will not produce the results that you are hoping for. Good marketing of our point of view is what we need (and access to media of every kind).

2019-11-16T06:42:15+00:00

This sub is a fucking joke. You may not be a hate group, but it's naive to act like there's not a significant portion of your group who are hateful.

Men-Are-Human · 2019-11-14T20:46:07+00:00

I've met.... Two? Maybe? May have been the same guy, even.

2019-11-15T04:10:59+00:00

just today when someone said that us disliking the feminism movement actually meant we dislike women. Honestly :O OMG!!!11 How did they find out??? /s. Its so sad how people on certain subs just cant accept the harsh truth; Mens rights want equality, and BANS MISOGYNISTS AND MISANDRISTS EQUALLY SINCE EQUALITY IS OUR TOP FUCKING PRIORITY IN THE FIRST PLACE. So sad to see how slandered the movement is.

ayoisonreddit · 2019-11-15T13:02:04+00:00

You going to be alright

2019-11-15T10:22:48+00:00

Unfortunately there is a lot of anger and misogyny in the men's rights space. Which is a pity because it detracts from the more important messages that we are trying to promote.

That said there will always be haters and I don't think our sub is worse than any of the others. I think it's great that rather than simply banning posters we try to engage with them to change their opinions.

bmania77 · 2019-11-16T00:21:59+00:00

Well anything less than terrorism, bring family courts to give equal right to men.

LacklustreFriend · 2019-11-16T01:09:40+00:00

The post you are basing this post off of is from The Red Pill, which is not a MRA group. This is essentially guilt by association. MRAs do not have to take responsibility for the actions of non-MRAs.

2019-11-16T10:33:17+00:00

You use hate speech and therefore, I will never follow your footsteps.

There is only speech. One that unites and the other that divides.

Yours divides.

MRA is not taken seriously due to men like you.

DubsPackage · 2019-11-15T07:08:14+00:00

Why haven't they locked this feminist concern-troll thread yet?

EphemeralWitness · 2019-11-15T00:35:51+00:00

I have met a few. You have to reject them as MRAs, because once you become hateful or hateful towards women, you are reduced to an incel. Be clear the Men’s Rights are about the restoration of men not the degradation of women.

Doobie_2325555 · 2019-11-15T08:50:55+00:00

They don't get to be bigots in my name.

IronJohnMRA · 2019-11-15T12:36:56+00:00

I have had a few encounters with the types you're describing. The only thing that worked was removing them from groups. Trying reason with them was a waste of time. Ban them, and move on.

2019-11-15T16:16:01+00:00

theres good speakers and guys who hold great knowlege and opinion like JP or Shapiro. these type of guys are not "alt right" or MRA.

if you wana see who the real enemy is and the guy that is leading them then take a look at Nick Fuentes on youtube. in terms of guys who are influencing young men in a negative way then hes an example.

Title	Your take on Hateful MRA's, and what can we do differently?
Author	baztardking
Upvotes	13
Comments	125
Date	November 14, 2019 7:11 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dwe89z/your_take_on_hateful_mras_and_what_can_we_do/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/your-take-on-hateful-mras-and-what-can-we-do.864952 https://theredarchive.com/post/864952

Comments