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UK TV presenter: Richard Madeley: ‘I won’t allow women in my dressing room without the door remaining open. I won’t go through the same ordeal as Sir Cliff Richard’

furchfur

June 26, 2016
861 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/richard-madeley-i-wont-allow-women-in-my-dressing-room-without-t/
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Title UK TV presenter: Richard Madeley: ‘I won’t allow women in my dressing room without the door remaining open. I won’t go through the same ordeal as Sir Cliff Richard’
Author

furchfur

Upvotes 861
Comments 77
Date June 26, 2016 11:25 AM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/4pxd91/uk_tv_presenter_richard_madeley_i_wont_allow/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/uk-tv-presenter-richard-madeley-i-wont-allow-women.946641
https://theredarchive.com/post/946641
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Comments

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]16sapphireguys 61 points62 points63 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

As someone who trained as a teacher and who worked in a school, I can confirm this.

Just for some background, I was 24 at the time, working in a unit for kids with additional needs. There were 12 kids in this unit, and at various times there were 6-7 members of staff (the kids had particularly complex needs). I was the only male.

All sorts of crazy things were said during that time. For instance, there was a lot of talk about child abusers (apparently one of the other teachers worked with a guy who got accused of child abuse) and these comments were always framed like "It's always the seemingly nice ones that do it." and "You just never know which men are likely to be abusers". Ultimately, no matter how nice or trustworthy you prove yourself to be, you're still a suspect.

I remember as well, the other teachers there used to have to sometimes help the kids with stuff in the toilet, and they used to just go in by themselves and nothing was ever said about it. But this one time during lunch, a kid had to use the toilet and so I took him inside and waited out the door for him. 10 mins later, I'm still waiting, so I knock and ask if he's okay. He says he needs some help, and sounds kinda worried. So, I go in to help, and because it's lunchtime there were no other staff in the immediate area. I help the kid deal with his 'complications' and we're outta there in 2 mins. At the end of that day, a urgent meeting was called and everyone was informed that should we have to help a kid in the toilet then there needs to be two members of staff there, and the incident must be recorded in an incident form. Now, the procedures are fair enough and should've been in place all along...it just seemed odd that this sudden reminder of the rules seemed to happen on the one day I did it, and not on any of the countless times the female teachers did it.

And another one; we went on an overnight trip where we hired out this complex with little dorms. When we were planning the sleeping arrangements, we took into account all the kids friend preferences, beds available in rooms etc. And to me it just made sense to have 3-4 kids in a room with 2 adults. But in the end, the organiser put me in a dorm by myself whilst putting 1 teacher in beside 3 kids etc.

Apologies for that massive brain-fart of a story, just that your comment reminded me of all those things.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]16sapphireguys 21 points22 points23 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I have since left teaching, but I completely agree with you. I know they have scholarship programs and gender quotas for STEM subjects, and I'm kinda against that on the grounds that people should do what they want and no one should get preferential treatment to enter these fields.

As such, I'm torn on whether or not they should do it for early years education. On one hand, men probably just aren't that interested in going on to work with kids. On the other hand, I think we genuinely need more male teachers in order to help the boys in our school. And maybe that's the difference which would justify gender quotas for men in education? Gender is irrelevant to how well you do science. The scientific process doesn't care whether you have a penis or a vagina. But as a teacher, men and women very much bring different things to the table, and children benefit from having male and female teachers.

[–]HuntForRedCascadia 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a man who used to want to he a teacher. My favorite people were always my male teachers. They were the only male role models I had to look up to.

After all the horror stories and how uncompetitive the pay is though... not anymore.

[–]mergedloki 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There's tons of need for more male childhood educators but... Obviously there's a reason we get so few that go through with it or stick with it.

Sadly I can't say I blame them. Shit needs to change though.

[–]MalibuStayZ 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It definitely wasn't right how you were discriminated like that.

Or they tried to protect him. They also see how the world is today and know how dangerous it can be for a male teacher. They can't fix the world either, so they make the best out of it.

[–]HotSauciness 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A male teacher friend of mine said that when he started he was told never to be alone with a female student unless the door was open.

[–]Symos404 128 points129 points130 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't say I blame him. One false word and the career is over in an instant and possibly your whole life is ruined

[–]gsettle 70 points71 points72 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Smart move. Never make it a "He said/She said" because you, as a man, don't have a voice.

[–]McFeely_Smackup 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

good lord...it's 2016, what sensible man WOULD have women in a dressing room with the door closed? We can rage about the injustice and unfairness of it...but it's like walking through the lion cage at the zoo. If you don't know why NOT, you're probably got trouble coming.

[–]Archibald_Andino 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not just dressing rooms, but any male minister, physician, teacher, etc, etc... none of them can safely be alone.

[–]SMTTT84 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, at least at the zoo they would likely come in and shoot the lion to protect you.

[–]Creepy-womem 91 points92 points93 points 10 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

Now that is a smart move. Never be alone with any woman without having audio equipment recording everything. It's totally legal and so important if ur famous and at risk.

[–]torrentfox 48 points49 points50 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's totally legal

Depends where you are, but yes, a good idea for people in positions of power and celebrities.

[–]Terminal-Psychosis 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

but yes, a good idea for people in positions of power and celebrities.

Well, men anyway.

[–]casinodr0ne 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as it is a public place and you have posted a sign saying that audio is being recorded you are in the clear.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points29 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

the culture is ridiculous now. every male doctor has to have a female in the room for exams. i have an embarrassing medical problem and i chose a male doctor because he's male. firs time i come in, a woman walks in with him and does "paperwork" like typing out prescriptions or taking notes or some stupid shit. i didn't want to make it even more of a big deal so i just put up with it. all because bitches kept crying about false rape and the general sjw population shits on the guy even if he's acquitted. now we got this culture of men being watched when they're in the presence of females.

[–]POSVT 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Medical students are taught that they need a chaperone in the room for sensitive exams, regardless of the gender of the patient or student/doctor. Male & Female students need a chaperone for prostate exams, for example, and the chaperone can be male or female (usually, but not always the same gender as the pt).

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

i know. obviously they need to do for both genders or it'll look suspicious. why do you think they began teaching that? 10 years ago, i never had any doctors have a female assistant in the room for exams.

[–]POSVT 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I get what you're saying, but I'm conflicted. Given, my experience is pretty limited (3rd yr) but it's been ~70/30 F/M requesting chaperones. Haven't done OB rotation yet though, so that'll probably skew it.

[–]garglemesh42 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Terminal-Psychosis 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No need to be famous. In this modern day and age, all men are at risk. This especially goes for those in college.

[–]TheLizardKing89 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Audio recording isn't totally legal. Some states require all party consent. Otherwise, it's illegal wiretapping.

[–]mads-80 17 points18 points19 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I may be wrong, but this law exists to protect you from incriminating evidence that was illegally obtained from being presented against you in a trial. As far as I know, if you are on trial and have a recording that exculpates you it is irrelevant if the other party consented to be recorded or not, they are not on trial.

Either way, it can be presented in an evidentiary hearing and it will be up to the judge, I think most courts would throw out a case when faced with incontrovertible evidence that the case is built on a lie even if the evidence is inadmissable.

[–]TheLizardKing89 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You're thinking of the exclusionary rule, which prohibits illegally obtained evidence from being used in court. I'm talking about crimes charges that could result from illegally recording private conversations. If you remember Donald Sterling, those recordings would be illegal if he didn't know he was being recorded.

[–]mads-80 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Right, but they were evidence against him presented by opposing council in a civil suit, so had they been obtained without his consent it would not have been admitted. I'm talking about presenting a recording as part of a defense in a criminal trial.

Even in places with an all party consent law on recording, you'll probably rather face that charge than a rape or assault charge.

[–]TheLizardKing89 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Or you could just have a sign saying that there's a recording system. That would eliminate the expectation of privacy and your recordings would be legal.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was actually getting invested in your conversation here, from the legal perspective.

[–]Penultimatemoment 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Post a sign.

[–]CuntSmellersLLP 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

This is a story about the UK.

[–]chaun2 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Is it legal in all counties of the UK?

Southern Yank here, I don't know what you guys use for smaller devisions of your countries.

[–]porphyro 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Counties don't have anywhere like the legislative power that the states do. As far as I'm aware, audio recording somewhere that you have an expectation of privacy is legal throughout the United Kingdom.

[–]chaun2 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Cheers, m8

[–]CuntSmellersLLP 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No clue, also a southern yank.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

there is no county law. the law in the UK is that if its a situation where you arent expected to be recorded, then both parties must be made aware there is recording going on.

[–]furchfur[S] 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are wrong. You are allowed to video and record on your own property with no restriction. You are also allowed to secretly video and record an encounter (including sexual ) if it is for your security and not for a sexual purpose. If it is commercial operation then you have to give notice of recordings. the police secretly record all the time to spot drug dealing in changing rooms or toilets. they do not give notice. I can write a lot about this, but youy are allowed to secretly record in the UK if it for your protection. Think of all the undercover hidden camera programmes on TV etc. I am afraid you absolutely wrong.

[–]chaun2 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Cheers, m8

[–]skinnyhulk 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

http://www.newbusiness.co.uk/articles/legal-advice/the-legal-ramifications-recording-conversations

[–]furchfur[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point From your article:

Person to Person Between two private individuals it is not prohibited to record conversations. The problem arises however, if that conversation is then provided to a third party for whatever reason, without the consent of both parties. Consent can be obtained retrospectively or by arguing it to be within the publics interest. As an example, reporters frequently record conversations covertly, but their defence is that the content is in the public’s interest and should be disclosed; in that knowledge of the recording would alter the content of the conversation significantly.

A thin line is tread here and many court battles have ensued to determine what is, and what is not, considered in the public’s interest. Injunctions are the most effective option available to the recorded individual who believes recordings have been made without consent, along with any claims for damages flowing from it.

[–]TheLizardKing89 -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This problem isn't exclusive to the UK.

[–]Socaddict 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IANAL but I looked into this for a friend once. Am UK based myself. Essentially, in the UK you can record anything but you cannot share it without the consent of the other parties. Generally this means you need to inform them in advance, but in court, if you say that you have the recording, and the other party refuses consent to reveal, the judge may well ask questions as to why the request to reveal is being refused and may order it revealed anyway, overriding the consent.

[–]NorthsideB 18 points19 points20 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

In Jewish law a man is not allowed to be alone in a house with a woman, unless the front door is open.

[–]locks_are_paranoid 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This is one of the few Jewish laws which could actually be good.

[–]NorthsideB 9 points10 points11 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Many people don't agree with Judaism's modestly laws, but there's a reason that orthodox Jews have such a low divorce rate. Link. But the other half of that coin is that in orthodox Judaism, only men are allowed to initiate the divorce preceding in a Jewish court unless the women can show her or the children were being abused, cheated on etc.

[–]Taladar 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Most very conservative religious systems have low divorce rates. Not because nothing is wrong but because nobody is allowed to say when something is wrong (or it is highly discouraged).

[–]TheRedThrowAwayPill -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Same with Islam. It's like history is repeating itself, converging on prior results one way or another.

[–]Pariahdog119 28 points29 points30 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I was raised up this way. We called it modesty.

[–]TheRedThrowAwayPill 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Came here to say this.

I always was brought up to consider it awkward and immodest to be alone with a women like that.

Ironic that we're seeing men go back to that as a defense

[–]FreeBroccoli 7 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It turns out some traditions have good reasons behind them.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No dude, everyone before 1950 was just a total idiot.

Obvious /s

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, that's called covering your ass.

[–]loddfavne 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's in Saudi-Arabia where it takes the testimony of two women to overturn the testimony of one man. And, of course this is sexist. It's something a feminist will frown upon. But, in a sex-scandal it is the other way around here in the west. Women's testimonies is seen as more true than men's. Because reverse discrimination does not exist, you know.

[–]silly_vasily 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Last week I was at work and we were about 8 people in a gathering area saying silly cheesy jokes, walks in a girl and an guy we did not know. we say hi, they dont respond and we keep on talking , then I say the word penis and vagina... (wanna hear a joke about penis, it's too long...) they storm out. 1o min later a supervisor comes in and an investigation was launched for using the word vagina... after everybody told what happen I was still found guilty and will have administrative consequences... Should I add this was in the army and we were training to drop tons of bombs on people....

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

a) What were the consequences?

b) Are people seriously so immature that they can't hear the words "penis" and "vagina?" I mean "cunt" I would understand, but those are the proper terms.

[–]silly_vasily 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Still waiting on the consequences. Secondly the guy who complained with the girl, well is a ex Marine. I mean how the fuck did you make it in the marines ? But all that aside it's not a question of being offended, it's a question of taking advantage of the system by crying wolf and putting people in shit for personal gain simply because the system is so "knee jerk" at this type of shit...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't blame the people so much as the system. People will exploit anything if given the chance, and the system practically welcomes it. I'm not as familiar with the military, but I know that university policy has increasingly moved towards "Guilty until proven innocent." When the system makes it so easy, of course people would abuse it.

[–]scanspeak 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The supposed guilt of Rolf Harris from events that occurred some 30 years ago are also highly suspect.

[–]InBaggingArea 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. But Madeley's not messing with that. Mr slick knows how to play to his audience's prejudices and not rock the boat.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I mentioned a while ago that I refuse to be alone with women and minorities at work for the very reason, and I was absolutely lambasted. I don't want to do it, but the current legal and political climate has forced my hand on the matter.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

women and minorities

The former I understand, but the latter?

[–]DallasTruther 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Chances are he meant minors.

[–]dolandoes 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

probably. especially considering women are still considered 'minorities' for no apparent reason.

[–]DallasTruther 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't say especially because of that...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I was genuinely confused, but that does make a lot of sense.

[–]hematite2 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Smart man. After what happened to Torvalds every prominent man might be smart to do this

[–]Maschalismos 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wait, what happened to Linus?

[–]geniice 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing. Well nothing other than longstanding arguments abouts his aproach to feedback.

There was a rumor based on literaly nothing that some group or other was trying to set him up for a sex scandle. Never any evidence but the usual suspected belived it uncriticaly.

[–]Prid 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Has the World really come to this? Life sometimes makes you want to weep

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes I wonder how modern male celebrities even date.

[–]equiposeur 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I always think about this at work with the people I supervise. If I need to meet with a woman, I try to keep the door open. This is awkward when we need to talk about something private. Eg she needs to improve her work, or she's getting a raise--things not to blab to the entire office. I find myself either talking very quietly or, maybe, briefly shutting the door and re-opening it. Obviously, having a wing-man/woman in the meeting would be better, but sometimes it isn't practical.

I've chatted to a female supervisor about this, but she thinks I'm crazy and paranoid. Ha ha.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its sad its come to this point but i understand why. One bad word and his career is gkne and he has a family

[–]Chummers5 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This was my rule for coolers and dry storage when I worked in restaurants, at least until I could gauge if the person was a shit starter

[–]GreasedLightning 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I swear in today's time we need personal drones everyone has following themselves around just to prevent this kind of thing.

[–]Karissa36 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Lots of law firms intentionally build their conference rooms with a glass wall that looks out into the main office for just this reason. You have to protect client confidentiality. So you can keep the door closed but still anyone nearby can see in.

[–]throwaway99999899999 -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If I'm in a position of power, what types of precautions should I take when people come to visit me?

Office hours typically consist of private meetings.

[–]Mitschu 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly enough, I can answer this as a guy who served under another guy in his professional capacity in a confidential setting.

He left the door slightly ajar, but not open, so that regular volume conversations would carry out (and by extension, potential screams for help or loud denials of sexual advances), but muted questions and instructions during the routine work wouldn't. If he needed to break news to the patient regarding something extremely private, he'd find an excuse to invite me into the back room to stand out of sight, but within clear presence range, for the entirety of while the door was shut.

Other than then, his door policy was "always open", trained staff could enter at any time for any reason (and since the office doubled as storage, I do mean any reason) to perform duties or even just to check for the patient's hovering attendee and make sure they weren't being drugged and stuffed piece by piece into a suitcase, as long as we were quiet and unobtrusive about our intrusion.

None of the female doctors (or other female bosses throughout the years, for that matter) I've worked for had policies like that, mind you. Every male boss I've worked for had something similar they did to cover their own asses.

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