This was sent out to all the students on my campus. I want to say something to the director...

mellvins059 · 2015-02-04T17:39:09+00:00

How could you possibly object to roleplaying scenarios of healthy masculinity?

I've got a midterm tomorrow morning. I won't drink. I'll make sure the guys stay in line.

Good call. We don't want a repeat of the rape that happened last year.

Don't be that guy

All men are rapists. Rape culture. Men can stop rape. And now, Don’t be that guy. The message is the same, the rhetoric is constantly re-tooled because telling men they’re fundamentally violent, predatory and evil only works as long as it takes men to decode and then reject the hatred and scorn heaped onto them by such messaging. Don’t be that guy is a pretty good one. It sells the idea to men that male sexual identity is fundamentally toxic, except for one or two good men. So don’t be like those other guys, you know, the bad ones; instead, be different from the herd, be better, because you’ve managed to overcome your own natural evil, and you’re one of the good ones. What a good dog you are.

"Show your commitment to stopping sexual violence ... recognition and prizes to student orgs with most attendance" ... The premise is that you and your friends are under suspicion and the way to clear yourself is to volunteer for these Maoist struggle sessions where you confess to your complicity with patriarchy.

Doctor_Loggins · 2015-02-04T19:21:10+00:00

How I would approach it is posting the same flyer around and hand delivering one to the womens resource center director, student newspaper and your schools dean, with the following changes:

A CALL TO WOMEN:

HEALTHY FEMININITY IN SEXUAL VIOLENCE PREVENTION

HOW CAN WOMEN BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION?

-For more information, call the Men's Resource Center.

DavidByron2 · 2015-02-04T17:58:53+00:00

Is this in the USA?

Well you could claim sexual harassment because the university is endorsing a practise of sex discrimination against men that makes you feel uncomfortable enough to impact your education. Basically because you think this is calling men rapists.

Unless you have a men's resource center as well as a women's center it's also a title IX violation to offer those services to women and not to men.

You have the right to an equal education without sex discrimination by your university jeopardizing that education if your school accepts federal funding (which they all do).

If you plan to complain though, you need to go to that class or whatever to see how bad it is. Maybe it stresses that women are as likely to be rapists as men? You don't know for sure if you don't go, and you're not suffering sexism from being told you're a rapist if you don't go.

EyeRedditDaily · 2015-02-04T17:40:35+00:00

"What can we do to end sexual violence?

A first big step would be to distinguish between actual sexual violence and the appearance of excessive sexual violence. Everyone agrees that violence - sexual or otherwise - should be minimized. But under the current environment, there is no way to know whether sexual violence is even an issue. In the current environment, where regret is now deemed to be rape, the issue gets confused because one group of people is talking about actual, violent rape; while another group of people is talking about regretful, consensual sex. You can't have a discussion about "sexual violence" when it includes such a broad, disparate set of circumstances.

2015-02-04T20:25:54+00:00

I say go to that meeting. Bring prepared arguments, and a folder full of studies and statistics. Take this opportunity to make a difference - if you just leave this group alone with their beliefs, the echoes will just get louder.

firmkillernate · 2015-02-04T17:20:49+00:00

As the title implies, I want to say something to the director, but I'm not good with words. Can you guys help me formulate a response to this email? I'm all for supporting equality, but I can't help but feel a little discriminated against when they aim this towards men and implying that they're the instigators of SEXUAL VIOLENCE. (Christ, did they have to emphasize "violence"?)

Castigale · 2015-02-04T18:14:33+00:00

In practically all domestic violence issues there are only two parties. The victim and purpetrator. If they want to hold a workshop on stopping domestic violence then they need to be addressing one of those two groups: potential perps, or potential victims. If you go in there and they're telling YOU how NOT to be a perp, then you've just been singled out for your gender in the worst of ways. I'd definitely file a formal complaint.

If the workshop is about communication and resolution, and how men and women can de-escalate a bad time, then it could be beneficial. Just make sure they know false accusations are form of abuse as well, and can have deep social impacts on your education as well the rest of your life.

Endless_Summer · 2015-02-04T20:01:14+00:00

Interactive discussion

Hahaha. As long as it fits their man hating narrative, maybe.

nicemod · 2015-02-04T21:32:10+00:00

If the comments are anonymous,use the occasion to bring up the issue of men as victims, and the abuse that men suffer when they are all labeled as violent perpetrators.

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2015-02-04T23:58:00+00:00

To me this looks like a perfect opportunity to actually be an activist for men's rights. You will have countless opportunities to disrupt the narrative by asking questions like "Okay, I need her consent to have sex, but at what point is she getting my consent?" or to voice up that the reason rape statistics look gendered is the bad definition and males and females are forced to have sex at similar rates.

Because this will be interactive and have Q&A and such it will be a great platform to get the MRA message to people.

apullin · 2015-02-04T18:48:58+00:00

This doesn't seem too bad, really, considering the first thing there is the use of "myths".

If anything, I'd attend and in person say that the notice email was toeing into territory of tonal bias, to which many people will react negatively.

GreasedLightning · 2015-02-04T20:47:55+00:00

I wonder if knowing a good criminal defense attorney is mentioned anywhere in the presentation, or whether they'll go into saving all documentation of your encounters with people that you can to help exonerate you in the event of false accusations.

nowaygreg · 2015-02-04T21:56:43+00:00

It's like sending something out that says, "hey, women! Learn not to down your small children in a bathtub at our lecture!"

ThisIsSeriousMe · 2015-02-05T02:54:26+00:00

There's refreshments...

2015-02-04T20:26:44+00:00

You should go with all of your friends and ask a lot of questions.

Spoonwood · 2015-02-04T21:20:59+00:00

They're going to explore the myths around sexual assault. So are they going to explore the myth that if you hear about a rape that the rapist will be male and the victim will be female? Yeah, probably not.

Brandwein · 2015-02-05T02:00:49+00:00

All caps? Are they idiots or academics?

Tmomp · 2015-02-05T02:59:04+00:00

STEP UP AND BE PART OF THE CHANGE!

How about you STOP HATING MEN!

That would be a nice change.

SirSkeptic · 2015-02-05T08:36:19+00:00

Hey, it doesn't say anything about violence against women.

Turn up and just assume it's talking about violence against men. Every question you ask or hypothetical you pose; have the female as perpetrator.

If they say "he" at any stage, remind them that it should be "she or he", they should already know that language on university should be non-sexist and inclusive. Do it every time.

If you are challenged say that you were told this was about ending sexual violence. Or is this really about demonizing men and masculinity.

Also, have some friends with you in different parts of the audience and have the hard numbers at your finger tips.

I did this in 1987 at a deeply ironic anti-discrimination meeting for women only - it went down a treat.

edit - speling

2015-02-04T23:17:42+00:00

If I were a rapist I'd go just to maintain plausible deniability.

deadalnix · 2015-02-05T03:51:32+00:00

Tell him his practices with his wife is of no interest to the school as a whole.

2015-02-05T05:20:43+00:00

I thought fish didn't need bicycles?

2015-02-05T07:51:00+00:00

god damn this shit. sexual violence has literally nothing to do with masculinity. never have i seen such a successful social engineering program to convince the entire population that men's very essence, that is, the very concept of their being male, is 'toxic.'

of course this is predicated on the assumption that domestic violence is conducted by males, so therefore their masculinity must have something to do with it, right? but then there's that inconvenient fact that feminists love to ignore... you know, 70%+ of nonreciprocal DV being perpetrated by a woman...

GiraffeOfTheEndWorld · 2015-02-05T08:43:20+00:00

I feel it should be 'A call to everyone' and 'sexual violence against everyone'.

sidewalkchalked · 2015-02-05T09:32:08+00:00

What's your complaint? Sexist message or criminal use of typography?

589547521563 · 2015-02-05T16:58:29+00:00

Go there, eat the refreshments and get the hell out. This is how I survived college.

cajunrevenge · 2015-02-05T17:03:01+00:00

"Earn a certificate of completion for full event attendance" lol

m3htevas · 2015-02-04T20:05:01+00:00

Unless you can change this, then this isn't the fight we should be fighting. Remember, the general consensus is that false accusations are pretty rare, and sexual violence is massively under reported.

The important thing to remember here, is that false accusation and under reporting statistics apply to both men and women; unless you are willing to claim that men don't report sexual violence just over five times as often as women, the only conclusion that can be drawn from these numbers is that women are more often the targets of sexual violence.

Now, if your still with me, then let me just say that I agree whole heartedly that the way society views men with suspicion i a problem; what I have a hard time swallowing is weather or not seminars like the one linked by OP are a part of the problem, or a possible solution that gets shot down because it is aimed inward (at us, at men, rather than at women or society as a whole). When facing a problem, it is counterintuitive to ignore any part that lies within your control. Therefore, I implore anyone who considers themselves a MR activist (or an activist at all, really...) to not turn away from solutions that may imply a weakness on their part; by which, I of course mean the part of men as a whole. Nobody is perfect, this is especially the case with groups. Luckily, even if it's uncomfortable, even if it feels bad, once you start facing inward and combating the faults within yourself, you start fighting the battles that really have a chance of changing things.

I am not saying that pointing out flaws in others (society, women, congress, what have you) is useless, or a waste of time. I'm merely pointing out that, when faced with a problem stemming from two sources, one internal and one external, you should start by addressing the internal factor.

So, with that in mind, and having probably already lost the attention of many (and perhaps a downvote or two), how should we, facing inward, address seminars like the one linked above?

While I have no problem with the existence of such seminars (assuming my first concern is met) by there nature, I do find the lack of a female analog...distressing. If we as a society expect men to look inward, then we as a society should ask the same of women as well. I'm not talking about rape escape. They actually do cover such topics as (wording mine) "how not to get raped," at a lot of those events. I could go on for days about how sad that makes me, but I digress...No, I am talking about the lack of seminars on female on male domestic abuse, and the trend of most women to not take seriously how damaging the media image of men can be (and their part in this).

TL;DR: I am not terribly offended by this, but rather by the precedent it seems to set: that men must fix themselves to make a better world for women, while women are not expected to correct themselves to make life better for men.One could argue that the orders of magnitude are vastly different (between rape and media image), and I would say that the problem goes deeper than that (men being expected to join the military vs women being expected not to, etc).

Title	This was sent out to all the students on my campus. I want to say something to the director...
Author	firmkillernate
Upvotes	314
Comments	75
Date	February 4, 2015 5:17 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2urt3b/this_was_sent_out_to_all_the_students_on_my/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-was-sent-out-to-all-the-students-on-my-campus.988858 https://theredarchive.com/post/988858

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