"Are you done crying, yet?"

PickensInc · 2014-09-14T18:51:37+00:00

Not to stereotype your Wife or anything, but I am now going to assume that, SHE has stereotyped you, thought "Hey, I've upset him. Men like sex, right?" and so she has assumed that, now that she's done the thing that all men (who are shallow) dream of, that you are now cured of your emotional conflict. Let her know that you aren't fine, and this is a real issue. You said that your love for her runs deep, and it sounds like you're a smart guy, so you've chosen a smart girl. If she really loves you, she'll listen to your problems like you would hers.

...Or don't listen at all to me, because tbh I'm a 16 year old on the internet with no experience with girls whatsoever. But, you know, a perspective not yet heard from, eh?

wanked_in_space · 2014-09-14T20:44:38+00:00

Relationship advice in /r/mensrights is like bizarro /r/relationships. Instead of the first piece of advice being the woman to divorce the man right of the bay, it's vice versa. Don't listen to that advice.

You need to have a serious discussion with your wife. Women don't respect guys who are "wussies", but crying doesn't make you a wussy. Accepting your wife's behaviour without telling her that shit ain't gonna fly makes you a wussy. You gotta let her know she can't disrespect you. Both of you need counselling, for the issues you both brought in to your marriage.

bigmanbeats · 2014-09-14T23:27:24+00:00

I had this same issue with my wife early on in our relationship.I remember she emptied the garbage and left the can without a lid. My mom and dad had always been sticklers for stuff like that and I just stared at it in disbelief haha.

Over the years we have fought about cleanliness. I have come to one conclusion. Think about it like this:

It's just as hard for her to overcome her upbrining as it is for you to overcome yours. You can't just simply get rid of that pang of anxiety inside of you, it was implanted there when you were young. It's the same way for her. The only difference is that you are standing on a position of moral superiority and she isn't. You assume you are right because our society values cleanliness. You assume she has no logic to stand on. The problem with that is, when a person feels 'attacked' about their beliefs, they are going to dig their heels in even deeper. Think about how irrational smokers get when you confront their smoking. They subconsciously know it's wrong, but the ego can only handle so much. She's probably tried to be better, in the same way that you try your best to not get freaked out over cleanliness.

I'm certainly not suggesting you just let her run roughshod, but a compromise can be made. You continue to try to work on your ability to tolerate certain messes (after all, if you removed your anxiety from your childhood, you would see that some of it isn't really that big of a deal and is just based on fear), while she can work on her ability to be more mindful of her mess, as well as be more compassionate about your needs. This, unfortunately is always going to be an issue in your relationship, but you can work together to bring some harmony.

Now, having said all of that, I think it's wrong that she benefits from benevolent sexism in the way she is choosing. She is subtly letting you know that she wants you to be "the man" and not cry. Well here's the problem with that. If she wants to adhere to traditional gender roles, she can get her ass in the kitchen and cook and be clean and not be a slob. Classy women from the 50's cook and clean and don't hoard. She can't have it both ways. You have to assert your right to a true egalitarian relationship, and if that means she has to shoulder the burden of feeling like less of a "woman" because her husband cries, so be it. You need to be up front and honest with her that this is how your relationship is going to be.

My two centavos.

damnbiker · 2014-09-14T23:03:35+00:00

If you wife is yelling at you to the point of leaving you in tears in the middle of a room, you are in an abusive relationship. The lack of compassion she has shown for you is a good indicator that, although you may love her, she does not feel the same for you. She probably loves being in a relationship

Leave. Lawyer up. Hit the gym. Delete Facebook.

MordorsFinest · 2014-09-14T20:28:54+00:00

i wanna give you a hug

ConfirmedCynic · 2014-09-15T00:35:58+00:00

Hire a maid service, a good one. After the initial period of digging out, the cost will be fairly reasonable.

aesopstortoise · 2014-09-14T18:12:44+00:00

I hear you. In your circumstances I would probably look, first for a therapist or counsellor, someone who would listen while I found a way through the situation, before doing whatever I had to do with my wife. It seems positive that you can see that you both have issues.

You are absolutely right about the way that women sometimes deny men the right to express feelings. It can be a powerful tool with which to exert control. Good luck.

deadalnix · 2014-09-14T22:56:38+00:00

My first reaction was considering divorce, but it looks like she care about you and vice versa. Maybe it can be salvaged.

The first thing here for you is to ask yourself where you draw the line in term of what you'll get and what you expect from her. It is easy to let thing slip and this is why you should make the decision up front and stick to it.

Secondly you probably need therapy she needs it too. You may consider going as a couple or each of you on your side, but it is fairly obvious from your story that you both need it.

Finally, who want peace must prepare for war. Be ready to separate if expectations are not met. Don't be afraid, this is actually increasing your chances for it to work, and will ensure that you cut your loss if it doen't. This is an all win position, and the one that is most likely to save your couple.

Good luck.

IgnatiusBSamson · 2014-09-15T03:43:36+00:00

DTMFA

PerfectHair · 2014-09-15T09:51:15+00:00

First thing, I think you need to seek Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, because it sounds like you have OCD of some sort and that won't go away on it's own. Find a therapist who can help you work past it.

Second, you need to admit this to your wife. Let her know that if the house is untidy you get anxious and when she shouts at you it adds to your anxiety levels.

A lot of the replies here seem to be saying things about you and your relationship, but very few seem to be offering advice beyond "divorce her." I hope you get some help soon.

Aatch · 2014-09-15T11:49:03+00:00

So your situation sounds similar to mine. Albeit a worse version.

I prefer a tidy space. It's not an upbringing thing for me, it's a symptom of my autism-spectrum disorder. I don't like things being out of place. So I tend to clean up as I go along. I don't like cleaning, so I try to minimise how much I do at once.

My girlfriend doesn't mind the mess as much and tends to let it pile up. We have a mini row every few months over it, normally because I've gotten annoyed at having to constantly remind her to clean up as she goes along.

My suggestion is to try and have an honest talk about it. Not just your respective feelings, but what you're going to do about them. If you don't make a change, nothing will get better.

rbrockway · 2014-09-15T13:03:03+00:00

You were sitting on the floor in the middle of the room, staring at the ground weeping and she walked away. That's cold.

I see you mentioned that you talked it out but maybe you need to do so again. It sounds like there is a clear divide between you and your wife over whether you are entitled to show your emotions. If you don't sort that out with her it will just become a bigger problem.

Deadonstick · 2014-09-15T19:19:21+00:00

It's totally true that, ideally, people should not cry. Crying means some emotion got the better of you, it's a sign of weakness and weakness is bad.

Then again, we are people, men too (so I've been told), shit will get too much for people at times, even the toughest of us. Yet somehow women are told crying is good because it lets out emotion and men are haunted for doing so.

While I do believe the "crying-threshold" for men (actually for women too now that I think of it) should be as high as possible (although that might just be my personal ideology that logic should mostly triumph over emotion), the occasional slip-up should be allowed as it is allowed in every aspect of human life.

..Except when you work in a nuclear reactor.

chocoboat · 2014-09-15T01:32:56+00:00

Sorry to hear how things are going for you. In a way, you've discovered a truth that you need to hold onto in order to grow: Your wife wants for you to be strong. You breaking down in front of her is not what she wants in the man of the household. Neither should you be a maid. Keep your stuff clean and if she can't do the same, bag it and either throw it out or put it in a storage shed that she can pay to maintain.

Also, r/TheRedPill.

cellardoor3 · 2014-09-14T22:22:22+00:00

I dealt with almost precisely this situation. My parents have maintained, to this day, a meticulous household, and I provide the same for myself and my daughter. My ex's father is a hoarder (he has so much stuff that he bought additional property to house it all) and her mother isn't particularly neat. Consequentially, my ex does not place any priority on cleanliness.

When we were married, this was a constant source of conflict. The messes she would create and leave stressed me out When I asked for help maintaining the household, she'd reply that I sounded like a nagging wife.

I'm not going to counsel you to immediately divorce your wife, although be prepared to do so. I do think that the issues you mention--that your wife is messy and doesn't care how this affects you, and that she belittles you when you display outwardly how it does affect you--are problematic enough that if they cannot be resolved, divorce is a good idea.

Based on my experience, I'd say that if she is unwilling to compromise on cleanliness (or her lack thereof), you'd have to question how much she truly cares for you. Something that affects you that much is something that a loving partner would recognize and work to accommodate. Also, if she is callous enough to treat your expression of vulnerability and hurt with cold words it is possible that you are simply incompatible. I know that my ex viewed my demonstration of stereotypically "feminine" traits (i.e., emotional expression) as not masculine, and hence, unattractive. If your wife finds traditional masculinity attractive, and traits that stray from that standard as unattractive, she may become less attracted to you over time.

I'm not sure if I'm being clear here, but what I'm trying to say is that you should resolve these issues, via counseling or some other means, or consider leaving.

Ultramegasaurus · 2014-09-14T18:36:37+00:00

I'd advice you to divorce that selfish, deranged woman but knowing the laws it will hurt big time.

spriggig · 2014-09-14T17:57:27+00:00

"Marriage isn't forever, it's just for as long as you can stick it out. Divorce, happily, is forever."

~Louis CK.

Divorce her, it will take a year or two, but then you'll be much happier.

rykounanba · 2014-09-14T18:33:46+00:00

I think you should have a good long talk with her and tell her what you told us. If she really cares about you she will try to find an actuall solution togheter with you.

Stalgrim · 2014-09-14T18:59:24+00:00

Honestly if things are that bad...if you can't fix them...what are you expected to do? Be this persons child minder for life? Look after the house on your own while she messes it up and then savages you for providing a safe, clean, comfortable habitat for you both?

I live in a state of organised mess, if things get to the point I can't find something within 30 seconds of looking I tidy my room up. That's all there is to that.

You have to confront her on this because I don't think being her personal cleaner and emotional tissue.

But I don't think this comes from some innate hatred or anguish on her part, I think she's just conditioned to feel safe and comfortable around mess. Work something out like the kitchen, the living room and the bathroom have to be permanently spotless and the bedroom and recreational room can be her personal playground of mess. This is one I recommend you both table out and come to a consensus on.

rg57 · 2014-09-14T22:01:49+00:00

I think you need to find someone who is also a neat freak.

I'm a messy person and I cannot stand it when someone tries to clean my stuff. It's offensive.

double-happiness · 2014-09-14T23:08:19+00:00

Frankly I would try to it round on her and shame her for being unfeeling: "at least I can cry!"

That's a toughie though, a real kick in the teeth from your wife there. Good luck.

AutoModerator · 2014-09-14T23:48:15+00:00

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justaderp3000 · 2014-09-15T02:55:19+00:00

I'm way too young to have a wife. But I can totally relate to not being able to express what I'm feeling. If I didn't have such a sensitive and awesome girlfriend, I would be feeling pretty damn shitty sometimes too. So I have nothing to offer, save my sympathy. That thoroughly sucks man :(

chocoboat · 2014-09-15T04:52:39+00:00

Damn... I feel for you... that's rough.

I really think you should see a marriage counselor. She has so little value for your feelings, if she's able to say something like that. That, or she's been trained to think that men don't have any feelings and that saying shit like that isn't a problem.

Like you said... you're "not good". An apology and some make-up sex doesn't fix it... you know that the problem is still there. She still has no respect for your feelings, she still has real issues if she freaks out and gets angry if you try to clean up her mess.

It also sounds like you may have issues of your own to resolve, such as anxiety. A healthier reaction to her complaints about cleaning is to remain calm and discuss the situation, and to state your intention to keep cleaning unless she has a very good reason for you to stop. Breaking down on the floor is an unhealthy reaction. (I know you didn't choose to do it, I know you can't help it... it is a symptom of unresolved issues, I think.)

TheRealMouseRat · 2014-09-15T08:43:39+00:00

Sounds like you're in an abusive relationship. First emotional abuse, then comfort with sex. Back and forth. Get out now.

the22nitschke · 2014-09-15T09:41:13+00:00

I reckon i'll be downvoted for this but whatever, like it or not this is my thoughts.

/r/Mensrights isn't for this sort of content. This is a personal issue between yourself and your wife, this is not a problem shared by the wider male community. Further more, it seems the problem has, for the most part, been resolved between yourself and your wife. And at the end of the day people fight in relationships, it's normal. Dwelling on a fight you guys resolved is not something you should be doing, move on. With relationships you take the good and the bad, it's up to you to choose what parts of the relationship are worth remembering - I'd suggest focusing on the positive side of things.

And for what it's worth I don't believe breaking down in tears over cleaning and chores has it's roots in what is normal for males or females. I think it's roots lie more in the area about what it means to be an adult. Adults don't sulk, cry or give in over things that are as petty as cleaning a room. My GF of three years is a pig, I like to keep a clean house, we have argued over this many many times and not once has either of us been reduced to tears. We just talk and/or yell it out like normal people... (ha) but what I remember from our fights is every once in a while one of us accepts that we are wrong and are being stubborn and I really appreciate it when she apologises later, and i'm sure she appreciates it when I apologise when i'm wrong. Again, that's a what i choose to remember.

Either that or just man up and get all domestic violent about it... you know until shit gets done around there. /s

rbrockway · 2014-09-15T13:20:39+00:00

As others have noted too, I think you need to tell your wife what you told us.

If you are concerned that you can't express this effectively verbally (due to all of the emotion involved, etc) then perhaps you could write her a letter. You can write and re-write it until it says exactly what you want it to say. Ask her to read it in your absence - maybe go out for the afternoon to have some me time. Anyone who loves you should read the letter simply because you asked them to.

Chopsueme · 2014-09-15T17:22:04+00:00

Not to sound harsh, but I would recommend going to see a counselor or therapist. It does not seem healthy for a grown man to hear his mothers scolding voice when cleaning up. It seems like you have some anxiety issues that need to be addressed.

Hope things work out for you and you're able to keep your marriage strong.

such-a-mensch · 2014-09-14T19:32:58+00:00

Your wife has no empathy. Tbh, you shouldn't expect empathy from a woman, search around this sub and you'll see that proven time and time again. They're just not wired to care about people other than themselves.

Now that you've shown her this side of you she's going to treat you like shit until your relationship completely fails or you stand up for yourself.

Don't let her push you around. Talk to her. Tell her you won't live with her being a slob and if she won't respect your opinion on how your home should be kept then she's not respecting you as her partner.

Either she respects you as her partner or your relationship is over.

Whisper · 2014-09-14T23:45:03+00:00

You're in the wrong place.

You're posting in a subreddit that's going to tell you various variations on how women "should" let men cry.

That's not ever going to happen. "Should" doesn't enter into it. This isn't your fault, but it's still your responsibility, simply because you are the only one with both the power and the motive to fix it.

Do yourself a favour. Go to /r/theredpill and read the sidebar. Learn how not to let this happen to you again.

Zosimasie · 2014-09-14T22:34:05+00:00

I have an emotional break down over chores at home

Grow the fuck up.

Ransom_Stoddard · 2014-09-14T21:51:35+00:00

Unless you want a life of this getting exponentially worse, divorce her ASAP, but only after preparing for it properly.

S73v · 2014-09-15T04:14:41+00:00

Why did you have sex with your wife if you had unresolved problems with her?

misterwings · 2014-09-15T03:11:42+00:00

You both need counseling. From one married man to another. Seek help from a professional. Toxic situations like this have a habit of escalating and boiling over without work and you can already see the resentment and distrust starting to build. This kills marriages fast and is very quiet at first but it will grow without it being addressed. You need to be looking at it from a gender-less viewpoint because this is a problem about respect and trust. It effects all couples no matter the type and it not a male/female issue. It sure as hell seems that way and may be expressing itself in that manner but this is a trust/communication problem. Tackle it as that first and then we can be all up in arms over the social implications. You have a very real problem on your hands and it is not meant for the scope of this subreddit at all. Please, please, please seek out a marriage counselor that you both can accept and work on it as a a couple before it leads to something worse. It can get worse. I will get worse unless you and her get help. Any advice you get from the counselor you should follow. Get help and you can come back here to vent when you have your situation more under control. We will be here.

Title	"Are you done crying, yet?"
Author	iwanttofeelplease
Upvotes	51
Comments	53
Date	September 14, 2014 5:52 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2gduvf/are_you_done_crying_yet/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-you-done-crying-yet.995779 https://theredarchive.com/post/995779

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