why/how do bad people get into relationships/have sex?

Naus1987 · 2021-09-29T06:57:46+00:00

People are gullible and get scammed all the time. It shouldn’t surprise you that bad apples are able to scam gullible women out of intimacy quite frequently.

It doesn’t mean they’re getting married or having successful relationships.

—-

And that’s unfortunately where a lot of those toxic red pill guru type folks actually come in. They’re basically scam artists explaining to people who to manipulate inexperienced or vulnerable people.

And while you can look at that, and be compelled to want to scam people, because you feel you’re missing out — is that really the kind of person you want to be or rhe kind of relationships you want to be a part of?

The world isn’t fair, and you can’t save everyone from being gullible.

Aggressive-Complex79 · 2021-09-29T06:29:10+00:00

Everyone is different, everyone has flaws. It’s best to find someone that has flaws you can live with and that their good traits outweigh the bad. Even though you may think being cynical isn’t that bad, to me it is. I can’t deal with someone who looks at the world through a negative lends. It’s completely draining and nothing you do will ever be good enough. They will drag you down emotionally and are likely to be emotionally abusive. Try to look at things deeper than surface level

Academic_Type624 · 2021-09-29T06:57:26+00:00

People often wear masks to impress others. Often they aren't doing it consciously but put on the persona they subconsciously think will make others like them.

In some of the examples you've given people are conditioned to look for certain things. I know women who value a guys income over kindness (thankfully not many) one woman in particular was actually encouraged to date high earners by her father as he'd be able to provide for their future children. She ended up in a couple of toxic relationships and was encouraged to stay by her dad because oh he's a pilot/navy officer etc

Some women end up with misogynist due to their religion.

Some people just don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.

Its complications and there's loads of factors and it can be individual. What I would say is going by some incel types I've seen they're showing people that they're toxic straight up. Believing they're entitled to sex and speaking of women as objects is generally showing that they should be avoided.

FraidyDogBrowse · 2021-09-29T11:37:34+00:00

Some men are good at manipulation and hiding or downplaying their flaws. Some have redeeming or attractive qualities alongside shitty attitudes or behavior. Some women are attracted to those that'll hurt them or aren't good for them. Some women are willing to overlook toxicity for other qualities they find attractive. Some women have just learned in life that people will be cruel so they settle. Some women have internalized misogyny and learned to accept it. Some women are also shitty - women can be racists too. There are lots of reasons.

From what I can tell Incel types usually have certain qualities that make it hard for them to develop relationships. Some of them may have physical traits that making finding partners a somewhat harder, but that's not usually the best factor. They also tend to have social awkwardness and difficulty taking the lead, in the dating script, which in patriarchal culture women have been taught to expect. They tend to be socially isolated. They struggle to talk to women or relate to them as people even if due more to inexperience than outright misogyny. Many have depression and/or anxiety. They tend to have low self esteem and lack confidence. They also tend to be kind of desperate and feel strongly that a relationship will solve many or most of their problems. All of these things tend to build over time and making dating harder and harder. But even before a guy becomes frantic, these traits tend to be there early.

I don't know how many start out this way but there is A LOT of toxicity in the Incel community, many that have pretty reprehensible beliefs and terrible misogyny themselves. So any guy that thinks all women are inferior or don't deserve equal rights in society, or deserve to suffer and die or deserve to get raped for rejecting guys she doesn't want to date - hell yeah they're gonna be single and they should be. If you're that hateful and lack empathy then yes, you're unworthy.

For those that aren't super toxic and lack empathy, it's not that they're worse than Nazis/racists or unworthy. When I tell people it's their personality or attitude, I don't mean they're shit. I mean they have qualities that make it harder for them to meet women, build a connection, and navigate dating.

Copperstoner · 2021-09-29T11:10:44+00:00

That's a easy question, if you don't go too deep:

(bad) experiences / role models: Experiences form you. If your parents lived in a bad relationship you will see this as normal. You will most likely try to emulate at least on subconscious level
Humans have more than one trait: Let's imagine a facist even though he is a facist, he might still be a great father or husband. The CEO of an arms company might also be super nice to his wife. Who knows?
Traits you see as bad are seen as good by others: You probably don't like facism or extreme versions of religions, traditional roles, machism and of course many other trait, which you see as bad. There are still many people out there who live and like them and that is true for men and women. So just, because it's bad from your POV doesn't mean it's bad from their POV. A traditional women will see a man who doesn't engange in aggressive behaviour probably as weak and the macho might be peak masculinity for her.
"Irrational attraction": There are also plenty of women who are attracted to typical bad boy behaviour. Maybe because of one of the reasons above, but the fact is that they are. The same is true for men too. Point in case: I like and I'm attracted to women, which are not healthy for me. Some of them have cheated on people I know and I still like them, because they are more exciting than others.
Lying/"borderline" rape/preying on vulnerable women: I know a few guys who use vulnerable women. First they lie, then the use them and then they discard them. This strategy can work for short term "relationships". One of them even got a girl drunk, convinced her to sleep in his bed and then "fucked" her. She did not know what happend the next day and so it's not officially rape, but for me it's rape. Needless to say that nobody really cared, because in the end nobody can know for sure what happend and no court is going to convict someone without evidence anyways.

onlyforsex · 2021-09-29T12:04:43+00:00

I don't understand why so many men struggle to understand this and even seem to envy not being able to treat women like shit Why is the concept of pros and cons so difficult to understand? This is like a restaurant owner asking "im offering people two week old dog shit sandwiches for 200$ each AND a free insult to every customer yet NO one is buying? What gives? :("

If you're unattractive in every single way then the very least you can offer someone is respect and a warm relationship. Stop worrying about attractive or lucky Nazis getting a relationship and work on building a relationship of your own, one that is genuine and attractive to both parties.

Greenwithenv · 2021-09-29T06:34:42+00:00

Life is unfair. On the other side of coin, you have men who lost everything after being together with the wrong women. Got parental alienation, so they could not even bond right with their children.

I think people, even the giga-nazi ones, can be very charming when they first introduced themselves. And it is not only confined in romantic sense too. Have you ever heard about Theranos? The founder so charismatic, turned out to be it is all bogus. In business, politics (oh my), health even, etc...you are going to see time and time again that people who are the worst...got the best.

I think the only thing one can do is trying to raise one's chance for good things to happen.

Do you live a life where interaction to women (especially single women) are scarce? As in is your job/hobbies tend to be more male dominated? While there is a point to be made to not to shit where you eat, some people do find their partners through work.

015X · 2021-09-29T09:28:07+00:00

Flaws are well-disguised, especially in the beginning. You have to learn to present yourself better. I'm not telling you to lie, quite the opposite actually. You have to present the real you, but the real you really differs across different social contexts. That's what you call dramaturgy.

In the meantime, you have to focus on your strengths, improve your weaknesses on the side, and approach women and life in general with a positive outlook. Be confident. Learn game.

Nomandate · 2021-09-29T12:08:36+00:00

Sociopathic / psychopathic / narcissistic/ borderline people are usually very charismatic and manipulative. Cluster Bs are almost psychic in their ability to read peoples emotions (comes from having to closely monitor their mothers/fathers emotions from a very young age in order to survive.)

Heggetmaster · 2021-09-29T14:22:11+00:00

Have you ever actually met an incel? I’m a straight man, and I would never want to associate with one even on a casual level. A lot of the time they can’t even make eye contact with you, they can barely speak above a whisper, they dress weird, are usually disconnected from culture, they act holier-than-thou, they’re bitter, and on and on.

And then you ask why women won’t fuck them? They give off Jeffery Dahmer vibes fam, that’s why. Most people in general avoid them. An asshole has a way better chance at finding a woman because an asshole still acts like a person, and as you say, can have positive attributes as a result of their personalities. Incels are assholes too, but also creepy freaks at the same time.

berettamakarov · 2021-09-29T06:49:11+00:00

incels are unattractive, the said men are not... no rocket science

badsign12 · 2021-09-29T13:50:25+00:00

All the lengthy explanations about men masking bad behavior or having other traits that distract from the bad behavior have some truth to them, but they just give the OP and people in his situation something to argue about. I think there's a simpler answer.

Whatever you attribute it to, unpleasant men who attract women aren't asking for advice about how to attract women because they don't need it.

Men who are asking, by definition because they are not attracting women, very likely need to change something. Would you find advice to do nothing very useful?

For whatever reason this best version of you isn't attractive to the women you're interested in. Change nothing and you very likely stay single. Change something that you can change and you improve your chances.

Your very simple choice.

Melificarum · 2021-09-29T16:01:23+00:00

I think you are right about confidence being key. A person can have a whole host of negative traits, but if they hide those traits behind charisma, they will be able to attract people. Some people just have charisma and they don't have to work for it, but self- confidence is something everyone can achieve. The best way to become confident is to be comfortable with yourself. This is hard, I know, because I went down that road myself. Try podcasts that focus on non-toxic ways of improving yourself, or even therapy. Lexapro is pretty great if anxiety is holding you back.

GenericBurlyAnimeMan · 2021-09-29T21:53:02+00:00

I respect the long, detailed responses that people are giving. But I think there's one simple truth that you and people need to understand.

Humans are complex beings, with a large variety of nuanced views and personalities. People cannot be pigeon holed and segregated into neat little groups, with well defined borders and boundaries. And if you can't do that with humans, why do you think you can do that with human relationships? Relationships are made up of layers and layers of nuance. From personalities, to personal experiences, to differing cultures, to differing ideologies and more.

There is no easy answer to give you here. No one here can give you a real, defined, explanation for what you are asking. But at the same time, neither can incels with their neat little answers.

Creating and nurturing relationships with people is like navigating a completely new minefield, with randomised placements. The only way to make sure both people come out unscathed is communication and the ability to adapt to your new surroundings.

Carkudo · 2021-09-29T08:49:51+00:00

They're attractive. Unattractive bad been don't get into relationships. It's that simple.

Red_Trapezoid · 2021-09-29T12:11:50+00:00

Bad people often get into relationships because people often get into relationships. That's about it. Mind you, that doesn't mean the relationships that they are in are in any way good or satisfying. Sometimes they are not good AT ALL in ANY way, but people stay in them for various reasons.

Financial reasons, safety reasons(violent abusive partner for example), codependency, being the victim of manipulation, religious reasons, status and saving face in a community where you are not seen as "normal" for not being a part of a nuclear family, thinking it's better to raise children with both parents, not thinking there is anything better, fear of change, comfort with what's familiar even if what's familiar is bad. These are just off the top of my head and there could be more.

You also never really know how a relationship is from the outside. I know a very happy looking couple on Instagram. They're financially well-off, they are young and attractive and they frequently travel. She's a serial cheater and emotional abuser and he's a predatory narcissist. They frequently have insane fights with tons of screaming. You would never know how horrible these peoples' relationship was if you didn't actually know them.

Now are incels worse than nazis and sex offenders and whatnot? Honestly? Often times, YES. Because the kind of behavior incels often engage in is also the same that nazis, r*pists and child molesters also engage in because they often are all of those things too. With a pity party to boot! These people are at the bottom of the abyss, completely consumed by cynicism. This cynicism leading them to extremely dark and disturbing(and stupid) conclusions about women, relationships and the world. Repulsing everyone around them.

As a final note, being single is COOL. Being single is way, way cooler than being in a bad relationship. When I think about most of the fictional protagonists I liked, most of them were single, independent people. I am single and life is often lonely but I love myself and that's enough love for me. Anything else is just a bonus.

thekeeper_maeven · 2021-09-29T22:21:38+00:00

It's called emotional intelligence and incels don't have it. That's why no one likes them. It's why incel ideologies appeal to them in the first place - they're not doing well in life and they don't understand why so they create superficial explanations that primarily gives them a way to blame everyone else for their problems.

Men and women alike who have it can sense when other people do not. It's just really obvious. If a person like that gets into a relationship, it is going to be with someone else who doesn't have EQ either. And it's going to be a toxic relationship and fall apart because they just don't know what the hell they're doing.

Bad people with toxic traits also get into relationships if they're socially aware (have enough EQ) to manipulate their partner's emotions. What makes them bad and wanting to do that is that they have no morals, primarily. They can pretend to be normal for a short time and hide their toxic traits long enough to trap someone into a relationship before the partner realizes their problem.

Incels are correct that looks make life easier. Appearance itself determine initial impressions, and determines some of our feelings towards each other. But EQ is a major factor in life, perhaps the dominant factor that determines social and therefore romantic, success. Poor EQ in the most gorgeous man will still turn women off and vice-versa.

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Learningtolove2021 · 2021-09-29T10:59:17+00:00

You’re not wrong that people with poor character often still are successful in dating (well, depending on your definition of successful- I don’t think they are successful in the sense of having loving lasting relationships, but they do get laid). Anyway, your post made me think of this essay by my favorite blogger. Good news is, this guy did eventually find love, so all hope is not lost.

EntertainmentNeat592 · 2021-09-29T19:08:27+00:00

First of all, most women are not really good at understanding if a man is misogynistic or not unless he is very blatant about it. Also, misogynistic men are extremely manipulative and go for gullible so with poor boundaries. There are women who lack good father figure in their life and they internalize misogynistic views. So, yes misogynistic men can get into relationships without a problem if they just go for vulnerable women.

The type of women that are attracted to bad man has issues of their own. They are often neurotic and don’t have healthy boundaries all. So, just cause someone is in relationship that doesn’t mean they are happy or healthy with each other

zapadz · 2021-09-29T21:15:19+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPIZWWzJjYE

honey-bundy-88 · 2021-09-29T21:35:48+00:00

Because people are not one dimensional characters only capable of displaying one personality trait at a time. I see what you’re getting at but in the end all you need to know is this: people want different things from different people.

Women (and men too for that matter) want different things at different times and may use different people to fulfill those needs. If I want casual sex I don’t need the guy I bring home from the bar to exhibit all the qualities I would want in a future husband. Yeah he should be decent and civil, but other aspects of his personality I can overlook for the time being to get what I want. That is the extent of our relationship. It’s possible all the girls your roommate brought home were looking for casual sex and he just happened to fit the bill. I doubt all of his flings resulted in long term committed relationships or liaisons.

There is no checklist women have for men that they apply to every relationship.

There are some traits that can be overlooked if another part of their personality is meeting a different need. I would date a guy who isn’t so politically correct (I’m a classic bleeding heart liberal) if we had fun together and had other similar values, but everything has its limits. Some women are willing to put up with casual misogyny while others would expect their partners to share their neo-feminist beliefs. Some women like pessimists and self deprecating men because they tend to have a great sense of humor.

It’s not that women are blind to all these things, despite whatever RP logic you may have internalized, women actually do settle all the time. But not because we can’t find better, because we know anyone we get with will have some other collection of negative and positive traits that may be even harder to deal with. It’s a constant struggle to put yourself out there because in the beginning we all do a good job of hiding our cons, while we wait for the other shoe to drop. It can be demoralizing, but that’s just the game.

You only see people through your limited lens. A guy will act very differently towards his girlfriend than he may in front of his boys in the locker room. So while you may see his dark and mischievous side, he could be a whole rom-com level romantic in other aspects of his life.

Finding a match is not binary, meaning it’s not comparable to opposite poles attracting one another, it’s more like doing a 1000 piece puzzle only each person brings 500 pieces from a different box. You may fit in some areas and not in others, you may even try and force some things where they don’t fit, but you can still have a beautiful creation even if you don’t fit up all the way.

Confidence should start where your insecurities begin. It’s about acknowledging your flaws and still knowing that they don’t define you. Not pretending that you don’t have any at all.

xvszero · 2021-09-29T22:25:41+00:00

Well. What is your goal?

I know it seems difficult for self-proclaimed incels but most anyone can get sex if they just go out constantly looking for it, lie to people and act like aggressive douches. But to what end? Now you're an asshole who gets laid on occasion. Sex is great, but it's not great enough to turn into an asshole over. Most of these dudes are not happy.

The same replies to relationships. You can get into one through deceit and such. But again, to what end? Now you're an asshole who treats your girlfriend like trash. Your relationship sucks and neither of you are happy. That's not a worthwhile goal. I'd rather be single. (And I've been single for most of my life, so I know what it is like.)

So, if what you really want is to have a good relationship mutually satisfying relationship with good sex and not be an asshole and well, that's a lot more rare. And honestly, it's not super easy to get. But those guys don't have it either.

No point in getting jealous of them. They're mostly miserable dudes.

RedPillDetox · 2021-09-30T08:16:19+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/47fj77/the_end_of_the_bad_boy_mystique_largely/

Premonitionist · 2021-09-30T15:12:09+00:00

Your bias is the just world hypothesis. Pairing up is surprisingly arbitrary. There isn't a system that works. There isn't a system that doesn't work. It's terrifying, that's why people keep trying to come up with systems like red pill to explain it and put it all in a little box that makes sense. Human beings are complex, and why two people end up together is mess of bodies and timing and psychology and social pressure. It's not about whether you're good or your bad.

Shycel · 2021-10-09T22:11:38+00:00

A hot gangster approach a women + make her laught, good feelings = they will fuck regardless of his felony record

Ugly nice guy tries to make an approach = she will rejects him

I mean ur seduction skills n ur body is not linked to ur personality, personality is for relationships for sex u just need sexual attraction

Anywhere_Broad · 2021-10-22T04:31:13+00:00

Owen Cook and the whole rsd community discovered what causes attraction ages ago. Its not just personality and its not just looks. It's way more complicated but simple at the same time

Title	why/how do bad people get into relationships/have sex?
Author	exitthrowaway96
Upvotes	38
Comments	125
Date	September 29, 2021 5:53 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/pxp321/whyhow_do_bad_people_get_into_relationshipshave/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/whyhow-do-bad-people-get-into-relationshipshave.1073630 https://theredarchive.com/post/1073630

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