A question for men

WanabeInflatable · 2025-04-13T14:36:05+00:00

I identify as a liberal man, but I feel as if liberalism in modern US understanding has shifted somewhere else.

Liberalism absolutely should be beneficial for majority of men except men who fit patriarchal cliche of a macho-misogynist who wants to own women. But it redefined its goals, slowly removing equality in favor of equity, which allows to actually discriminate against groups of people "for the greater good"

Far right and conservatives are no friends for men for sure, but they do some lip service occasionally and it is easy to portray themselves as promale in contrast with modern so called progressives.

So men are political orphans. No political force is representing their interests

BoredRedhead24 · 2025-04-13T15:05:37+00:00

Honestly your post gives me some hope. As it stands, the refusal to represent white men in particular is what cost the left this election. You cannot alienate America's largest voting demographic and expect good things to happen. The fact that you not only see this double standard is not only wise of you, it gives guys like me hope that things can still change for the better.

_not_particularly_ · 2025-04-13T18:54:29+00:00

I’m an American liberal and think of myself as being on the left. But in the modern day, the word “liberal” has expanded in definition to include things like neoliberalism. This is the ideology both of what we would now call more “moderate” Republicans, as well as the “Third Way” Democrats who are the dominant faction in the Democratic Party. So in practice, especially in the US but also to some degree the rest of the West, the word liberal can span from left wing to center right. The mainstream Democrats and neoliberalism are realistically center right by the standards of almost any country other than the US. Past Democrats like JFK were at least center left liberals, and FDR is the closest thing we’ve ever had to a left wing president. My liberalism is based on the writing of John Rawls and I end up being more to the left wing of liberalism, which was the dominant variant during FDR.

I think in the modern day, the US liberal movement in general generally accepts that the feminist movement and patriarchy theory have a monopoly on being able to say they support women’s rights, and that anything that runs counter to feminism automatically claims women should not have rights. This obviously makes it next to impossible to fight for any position that feminists aren’t inclined to like. So there’s nowhere for us here.

On the other hand, the American right has always been much more concerned about the rights of corporations than humans. They pay lip service to men’s issues at times, and they’re happy to let the red-pill-sphere use their platform when it can make them money off of angry, disaffected young men, telling them they have a solution to the decades-long erosion of their rights. But they’re still the ones primarily in favor of expanding and weaponizing the criminal justice system against everyday civilians, which is obviously one of the main forms of oppression of men.

In practice, the American right builds systems of oppression, and the American left genderizes those institutions in such a way that they primarily oppress men instead of women. The right is attempting to create systems of female oppression by criminalizing abortion, but for the time being, that’s in some states; male oppression by the criminal justice system exists in all US states and at the federal level. So at the moment, the left and feminism has been far more successful at systematically oppressing men than the right has been at doing so to women, specifically when it comes to using criminal justice.

So American men who want women to have rights but also want to keep some of their own are basically politically homeless. For a while it was mostly just white men, but now it’s spreading to men of color too.

Sorry if this was a little bit of a tangent but hopefully this gives some information on one part of the world.

xaliadouri · 2025-04-13T19:00:09+00:00

Some feminists do call for men's freedom from toil, so we can all work together and fix our crazy world. But every political word is twisted and weaponized so we can't even talk: liberal, conservative, feminism, anarchism, etc. So in the US, "liberals" and "conservatives" are often good-cop & bad-cop.

Many sympathetic men were ready to ally with feminists, but they got utterly humiliated, alienated and lied to. If you strip away someone's dignity and respect, they stop being loyal. Organizers know this, so the rightwing easily organized them.

meemsqueak44 · 2025-04-13T16:15:55+00:00

A lot of men’s issues would be addressed in part by focus on the rights and wellbeing of the working class. When schools are better funded, more resources can go to helping boys get back on track. When teachers are paid better, it will attract more qualified professionals, including men, to teach and provide a good example for young men. Working conditions are an issue regardless of gender that does happen to affect men more, but should be improved regardless! Equality in parental leave benefits everyone. Improved or free healthcare may help close the health gap between men and women. Etc etc.

The party of workers rights is the party that benefits men the most. Unfortunately, both left and right parties in America right now are beholden to corporations and the wealthy. Workers have no real party, so men only get to pick sides in a pointless culture war.

1bnna2bnna3bnna · 2025-04-13T14:45:09+00:00

thank you.

Argentarius1 · 2025-04-13T14:48:26+00:00

This is such a thoughtful question. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the selflessness of recognizing unfairness to men and boys when women's issues affect you more directly. It really is incredibly admirable.

As for your question, even if the right seems more appealing right now because it promises to get the boot of feminism off of men's throats, the fact remaims that you always need both a left and a right. The left at its best looks after vulnerable people rather that cheating people who appear to have strength. The place of a healthy liberalism with regard to men can be to rehabilitate punished and left behind men and then benefit from the fighting spirit and wealth production of grateful well developed men.

In short I think the left needs to reform and develop the ability to rehabilitate men who are left behind and benefit from their gratitude in return.

Separate-Tutor-6386 · 2025-04-13T15:57:32+00:00

Ok it won't let me edit it for some reason but I just wanted to say thank you for your responses. It's great to get men's perspectives. I hope everything starts getting better. People care about men, even if the majority make it sound like they don't (which I am sorry for sometimes women generalise men which is unfair). Men matter you guys matter. Prioritise yourself and don't stop until you are happy.

SPKEN · 2025-04-13T20:59:05+00:00

Many men are moving towards the manosphere,and thus the right, specifically because of the rampant misandry and double standards that are present in the left and the apathy that the left has towards any problem that primarily effects men.

Before the election, there was some talk of the left being the party of women and the right being the party of men and frankly that hasn't changed. Everyone goes where they get what they want. Men want to be heard, appreciated, and valued. If they can't get that in the left, then they will leave.

And yes you are right, feminism today doesn't support men's rights. Today it doesn't support much of anything besides social and public misandry and one-sided capitalism

LordAshur · 2025-04-13T19:47:12+00:00

Liberalism is an inherently right wing philosophy in that it supports maintaining capitalism as an economic system

Revan0315 · 2025-04-13T20:53:19+00:00

As a women i have been feeling like feminism does not support mens rights, and that in majority of the world the double standards feminism has created has resulted in men and boys unfortunately being left behind

It depends on the individual honestly. But yes, a lot of feminists seem to believe either 1) Men have issues that should be addressed, but women's issues are more important so we don't have to worry about them right now, or 2) actually men are the oppressor class so they deserve the suffering.

Is liberalism better for all men or is the far right / conservative party better ?

Between the two, liberalism is better. But liberals have horrible advertising and treat men like the villains a lot. The far right, on the other hand, at least put up a front of caring about men. And most people are gonna be much more easily persuaded by someone who's acknowledging their plights (even if they don't actually care).

For the rest of your post: I don't really like liberalism (I'm a socialist) so idk enough to say

nam24 · 2025-04-14T04:35:11+00:00

I m not a liberal but I would call myself a leftist, also not from the USA

With that out of the way, I would say most liberals and feminists:

-false accusations

See this as a non issue or a distraction. A common argument is few of the cases that make it to court or aren't nulles are ruled as false allegations.

That is true however it ignores many cases don't make it to court (a fact often cited to point the failing of justice in terms of rape, but often with the unspoken assumption that those cases who don't make it are all unfairly dismissed or case where the victim is unwilling to go through the entire procedure). Or how race interact with it (tho it's not all who ignore it

I do personally believe most aren't out to maliciously ruin someone innocent (most known false accusations also are cases where they get the wrong person rather than the rape not being true altogether) but it's too often seen as dissmissable issue

-men being forced to pay child support for a child that isn't even theirs or if they have been sexually assaulted/baby trapped they might not be believed and still have to pay

Like the above, seen as an extraordinary issue and not as a systemic one.

-men who are the victims of sexual assault and not being believed or saying that they are lying

Would really depend on who you ask. Some do see it as a true issue, some don't really care because it's "men on men violence"(even tho female perpetrator is not a once in a blue moon thing), Some see it as simply the extension on what happens to female victims(not necessarily absurd tho I think there are differences)

-mandatory draft for men but not for women (do liberals support a mandatory draft for women , because that is equality)

Seen as non issue in western countries as most draft are inactive or neutered...for now at least

When pressed most would say they are anti draft in general, which is valid and I d agree, tho I can t help thinking for some it's an easy deflection.

In a few discussion discussing countries where draft are active and used(ex Ukraine, south Korea) there's a tendency to bring up volunteer female army women, or military intra bullying and Sa problems, or female specific issues for civilians or army women both in conflict zones, and don't get me wrong that's not to be ignored but it does feel like deflection in some cases.

That said tho make no mistake, I don't know of any conservative anywhere for a draft that would include women.

-how men and boys are not going to higher education

Like Male SA victim a huge "it depends on who you re talking to.

-how men live shorter lives compared to women (do liberals support mens health fundings and increasing the lives of men) mens mental health

I think liberals support health funding in general

-men doing blue collar labour jobs and expecting high death rates because of unsafe environments

Like health, adressed but not through gender, and more the general lens of workers right

-men having to pay alimony

Depends on who is talking, how much and why one support it or not varies a lot

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2025-04-13T15:17:36+00:00

I cannot think of a way in which liberals are helping men. You could make an argument that fighting for unions or higher wages might help men, but that would be liberals helping men because they work rather than just because they're men. In other words, if they help men as a demographic, it's always just a coincidence.

"Leftwing" does not have to mean liberalism. It can refer to socialists, Marxists, communists, etc.

I am starting to think that the best thing all advocates for men could do would be to separate their activism from partisan politics. We should be advocating for men. Things like wanting to make sure boys don't fall behind in school, wanting to stop forced circumcision, and wanting to stop normalization of misandry are not leftwing or rightwing ideas. They are pro-male ideas that are available to all regardless of their political affiliation.

As a man, I can say liberalism is not more appealing to me than conservatism. It is not conservatives who teach school boys that they're oppressors, who mock the idea of men's rights, who think misandry is a myth, or who like to post "men are trash" or "kill all men" online. You have one political wing that is actively antagonistic toward men, tells us we're trash, tells us our problems aren't real, and embraces misandry. Then you have the other political wing whose worst offense, as far as I can tell, is saying to men, "We want to hold you to rigid expectations of masculinity." I am only speaking for myself here, but if I was a young man again and believed I had to pick one side or the other, I know which one I'd pick. That choice would be as clear as the choice I faced as a gay teenager having to decide if I wanted to register as Democrat or a Republican in the 2000s.

Danibear285 · 2025-04-13T18:01:54+00:00

I don’t follow a political affiliation. Too much labeling in society to determine one’s place. I’m not pro-environmental policy, I’m Pro-Me.

ivent0987 · 2025-04-14T09:16:48+00:00

I hope someone picks you gurl /s

maomaochair · 2025-04-14T17:08:54+00:00

Many equalitarian Liberalists just turn out to be racism and sexism. As a chinese leftist, this happean in our history - Cultural revolution and other similar movement.

So when the party representing the exploited class took over the power, they made certain people priviledged and oppressed the old rulling class in the name of class struggle.

As a progressive party like CCP could be corrupted, liberalist advocacy can also become oppressive.

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