Down with patriarchy…. Wait…

Johntoreno · 2023-10-15T13:54:04+00:00

I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out

Real life is not a Hollywood movie, there's no mustache twirling evil men for you to punch and "burn down patriarchy". Most men are just as good as you think you are. You're lumped in with patriarchy because its just a dogwhisle for "ALL MEN" as far as the feminists are concerned.

Feminists figured out that they can project Men as the ultimate evil in Society as long as they make it sound like its A group of Men. Men have no problem demonizing other men as long as its the "enemy tribe male", its the greatest weakness of Men as a group. You just got a reality check from women in your life. Most feminists believe that ALL men are guilty of being complicit with patriarchy until proven innocent, which includes you, me and every male that's born!

nakaidima · 2023-10-15T14:50:20+00:00

Growing up in a household of only women, this has been my entire life 🙄

The women of my family would openly discuss and agree about how terrible and/or privileged all men are, while I, the only male in the household, would sit there not really understanding why I was the bad guy.

DutchOnionKnight · 2023-10-15T12:51:00+00:00

Yeah that's some misandrist bs from their part.

It's not a lot to ask for to just validate your feelings. My sister once told me I had no right for an opinion about women topics. So I asked her; "You want me to stop caring about you and your safety? You want me not to speak up about some wrong doings? Because that is how get creeps taking advantage of women, when men don't call them out." She quickly understood my point of view.

Edit: wanted to add, just because we talk about mens or womens issues, doesn't mean the other can't participate. The other genders issues affect all of us. Mens loneliness, affect women too. Women being raped, affect men too. The one doesn't exclude the other.

Alpha0rgaxm · 2023-10-15T14:50:46+00:00

Honestly I’m sick of this patriarchy bs narrative. I don’t really believe it’s a thing in developed Western nations anymore. The main important issue effecting women in the US is reproductive rights (which they should totally have). But that’s not even a sign of the patriarchy because more women are pro-life than men.

I am convinced we need to send some of these women to the Middle East or somewhere so they can see what an actual patriarchy is. These ungrateful women live in a girl-boss culture and still think everything is against them.

This patriarchy nonsense is a substitute for “Marxism” but for women. Just like how antisemitism is “Marxism” for bigots and shamefully stupid people. These people need to learn to see things for what they are instead of making scapegoats.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-10-15T14:28:31+00:00

Your wife and daughter sound like entitled assholes.

TNine227 · 2023-10-15T16:10:02+00:00

I fully believe that the patriarchy is real and a problem.

Lmao why? Do you truly feel you’ve lived a life where women had no influence on you?

I am a huge fan of these amazing women in my life and part of me loves to see them embrace their full womanhood without referencing men.

Do they return the favor? What had your wife been telling your daughter?

I dunno, I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out (intentionally irony).

You were okay with them being sexist as long as it was all men except you?

Neveah_Hope_Dreams · 2023-10-15T21:15:14+00:00

That is not okay. The fact that your own wife and 15 year old daughter said this is messed up and heartbreaking. You should have the right to speak and share stuff.

Rock_Granite · 2023-10-16T03:01:10+00:00

my wife (43) and daughter (15) very derisively told me how no one cared, especially them, about what I thought, with the definite undertone of me just being an overbearing man trying to hammer them down with patriarchal opinions.

When people tell you who they are, believe them

papertiger22 · 2023-10-15T15:24:10+00:00

next time they say something like that tell them it's sexist to devalue your opinion just because you're male. if you're the breadwinner of the house, tell them if they really don't like your "patriarchal" contributions they should make sure to start bringing in more money bc they wouldn't want to use your misogynist paycheck, right? might make them reconsider how they speak to you. also I'm sorry your family thinks it's acceptable to speak to you that way. I would never talk to my father like that because I love and respect him.

sn95joe84 · 2023-10-15T16:14:55+00:00

Not clueless at all, friend. I think what you say will resonate with many here.

No one is going to feel good about having their feelings invalidated, no matter what gender, race, religion, culture, ect.

What your ladies essentially told you is the 2023 version of: "Shut up woman, get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich."

Wasn't OK to treat women like that then, not OK to treat men like that now.

At the risk of offering an overly simplistic solution, could it maybe help them hear your concerns if you used the classic "I message"? For instance, "I wanted to let you know that I felt hurt/de-valued/unimportant after our conversation about pop culture and patriarchy because..."

Personally, I think this patriarchy myth is straight harmful at this point and needs to die. Feminists, white knights, and "uncle Tims" can point to this imaginary boogeyman villain 'Patriarch' and justify blatant misandry and de-humanization of men (or in your case, complete disregard for your feelings) based on an outdated narrative.

Real world example: Mattel board is mostly equitable, Barbie fictional narrative ITS A GROUP OF ALL EVIL MEN.

coping_man · 2023-10-16T13:04:38+00:00

I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out (intentionally irony). I can’t imagine ever telling either of them that I don’t car about their feelings because I’d their sex.

hard truths speed round:

(this will piss you off so skip ahead if you're not ready)

-those other guys feel the same way about you and would also throw you under the bus to feel like heroes and get poonani

-your wife has no respect for you and is disgusted at the idea that your opinion is equal to hers

-neither does your daughter and probably none of her sisters do either

-you are probably such a weak presence in the house that your sons internalized the same way of life

-you will continue to break your back, pay their bills and buy them gucci bags like a good slave and you will obey your master regardless of what she says because you married her and half your soul is hers, make sure wifey is happy or half your assets will evaporate too

i couldnt sign up for something as soul crushing as this no matter how much sex they promised me, anyway dont blame me

Foxsayy · 2023-10-15T17:04:56+00:00

We were just having a lighthearted convo and I (M45) was sharing some feelings I have about some pop culture topics and my wife (43) and daughter (15) very derisively told me how no one cared, especially them, about what I thought, with the definite undertone of me just being an overbearing man trying to hammer them down with patriarchal opinions.

I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out

Sorry man. One day, I hope, this sort of thing won't be acceptable. Obviously I can only go off the information given here, but I would definitely talk to your wife about this. If that's really how she feels, not caring about or taking considerately anything your partner expresses is a pretty big issue.

matrixislife · 2023-10-15T18:05:38+00:00

Pretty clueless, most likely. When they say down with patriarchy they are talking about you and all those like you. Feminists claim "they don't mean men" when they say patriarchy, but that's plainly a lie.

It'd be interesting to stop sacrificing for them, and see how things change. I suspect you're not willilng to do that, but I'm not sure how else you can show them what you are doing for them. Suggest that the missus gets a job to help out? Maybe suggest that she should plan to do that once the kids are all at school, and don't forget to video her reaction.

BloodyMartians · 2023-10-15T19:51:16+00:00

Emotional objectification.

Fuzzy_Department2799 · 2023-10-15T22:09:16+00:00

Sadly this is all to common these days. Its so prevalent in society and media that is goes virtually unnoticed just like how common it is to show physical abuse against men. You need to stand up for yourself and let them know there are consequences for such blatant disrespect.

Nihi1986 · 2023-10-16T02:09:45+00:00

It's probably too late to fix it in your home, and perhaps too late for society too.

It's a power trip, women are more powerful and privileged than ever and they will basically disrespect or verbally abuse any man to keep it that way.

Seems you married someone who would do such things and then allowed your daughter to do it too, and it's reasonable, understandable, you love them, you love your wife and daughter, they know you love them, why would they disrespect you and not care about what you have to say even in a light hearted conversation...?

What happened to you is happening to most men out there. Take care of them, treat them like queens/princesses and see how you aren't the leader around, how you aren't even an equal, how you are just another annoying man with patriarchal ideas.

Would be cool if at least the good men were allowed to be part of the team but...nope, not even that.

HighMageVegan · 2023-10-15T17:17:26+00:00

5 kids means you must have at least one son I hope. Focus on him

hottake_toothache · 2023-10-15T21:45:05+00:00

This story resonates with me a lot, because of the way that women I have been close to in my own life have treated me. I tried for years to persuade them to change, but to no avail. In the end, I needed to accept that our relationship was not what I thought it was. You can't make other people care about you, no matter how much you want them to.

aumbase · 2023-10-16T12:25:28+00:00

Why is your baseline comfort level that enables you to provide support, safety and comfort to your brood being put on trial by your women!?Lol while you’re out busting your ass your wife is in your home spending your money teaching your children to resent you. Get it together. She needs to respect you.

Karmaze · 2023-10-15T15:15:32+00:00

I have a lot of the same "burn it all down" impulses sometimes, to be honest, but it really won't do any good. The problem is that there's not just one type of man in the world, not one type of masculinity, and the inability to make distinctions between the different types is actually self-defeating from a feminist perspective, because it's missing what the actual problem is.

It's like the whole M&M's analogy thing, right? That some of them are poisoned and you don't know what ones? But...if you look there are ways to tell. All of this is really just tapdancing past red flags to be honest.

I would say that the big problems in terms of masculinity are these:

First, men who are too high and too low in terms of self-value/self-esteem/confidence/etc. The former because it breeds a sense of entitlement and desire for control, and the latter because it breeds sociopathy and destructiveness.

The second, is men who lack the ability to perform the Male Gender Role in a healthy, productive fashion. Mind you, these things can most certainly overlap.

The third, and this is more general to men and women, but I'll throw it in here, people who don't follow their own rules/standards/etc.

To me, if you want to fight "patriarchy" that needs to be the focus. Please note that I reject that term because I don't buy that it was ever this pro-male conspiracy theory, and I think our system of gender roles are largely based on material needs of childbirth and childrearing in pre-industrial life.

But the whole putting down all men thing isn't going to work. Frankly, I'd argue it's making the problem worse because you're pushing more men to the bottom end of that self-worth spectrum where it becomes dangerous. And at the top? They have no incentive to change, because frankly...the Male Gender Role, that set of expectations and responsibilities placed on men, hasn't gone away, and that level of self-worth/confidence/etc. is very good at achieving the Male Gender Role, and as such they tend to be rewarded for the toxic personality traits.

dawszein14 · 2023-10-15T21:19:28+00:00

yeah, it sucks. big structural stuff matters in the population and matters on average and even matters in specific families, but people who love and trust each other and share the same language should still be able to account for those factors and have productive, important discussions in spite of them

Ideology is necessary for organizing millions of people, but the way it seeps down into individuals in the US is disheartening. I hope you can persuade them to talk about these things in gentle ways that make it possible to come to more correct views that aren't prescribed by ideological authorities

panther455 · 2023-10-16T15:55:16+00:00

I am a huge fan of these amazing women in my life and part of me loves to see them embrace their full womanhood without referencing men.

lol. lmao.

So, when's it gonna be our turn then.

Fornographic · 2023-10-16T19:15:46+00:00

I'm kind of a strike back kind of guy. I'd stop assisting them in any endeavor that requires strength or a traditionally 'manly' skillset. Maybe they'll appreciate your contributions if they did without for a minute. Don't start a conflict or even mention it. Let them bring it up and then tell them how much you respect their capabilities and let them figure it out.

White_Immigrant · 2023-10-15T20:49:34+00:00

How you interact with your family, and what treatment you think is acceptable, is your business. I would however call out the commitment to the patriarchy conspiracy theory. Take a look at prison population figures, war deaths, work related deaths, or global average life expectancy. There is no secret plan to benefit males, it is a divisive sexist conspiracy theory used to justify the continuation of using men as disposable meat sacks.

parahacker · 2023-10-16T01:36:40+00:00

Mandatory "Patriarchy theory is a damned dirty lie" message.

gratis_eekhoorn · 2023-10-16T07:03:01+00:00

I dunno, I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out (intentionally irony).

There is no patriarchy.

Punder_man · 2023-10-16T06:23:29+00:00

OP, I think you are starting to understand just how regressive the feminist narrative has become..

See how quickly even those closest to you will turn on you and throw you in with all the "Bad men" without a second thought?
Its because the feminist narrative has told them that ALL men are tainted and "evil" even the ones closest to you..

I'd be willing to bet that you don't benefit from "The Patriarchy" as described by feminists or if you do, not to the greatest extent as described..
Yet you are still considered part of the 'Oppressor Class' no matter what you say or do you will always be judged as an oppressor..

So yeah.. you are clueless but hopefully this gives you a glimpse into how many men / MRA's see our society at the moment..

Nobleone11 · 2023-10-19T06:57:03+00:00

OP, I'm having difficulty reconciling your true feelings based on some very glaring contradictions.

On the one hand, you believe their comments hurtful, invalidating and disrespectful.

But then you say this:

For some reason it really hurt. Of course they are allowed to feel that way.

So despite how it makes you feel, you're willing to simply let them walk all over you because patriarchy, according to you, is real and sacrifices have to be made.

At least, that's what you're communicating here.

No offense, OP, but you need to learn some self-respect and to defend it from relentless, unwarranted beatings from inconsiderate individuals no matter how they figure into your social circle.

There is no grounds for it, whatsoever. They're making you a scapegoat.

PalletTownStripClub · 2023-10-15T13:28:23+00:00

I dunno, I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out (intentionally irony). I can’t imagine ever telling either of them that I don’t car about their feelings because I’d their sex.

Hard to judge without knowing what you said. That's pretty crucial. If you said something fucking dumb or ignorant then their response sounds mild.

Also your support for destroying oppressive systems shouldn't be contingent on your wife & daughter fucking with what you said/you.

If your comment was inoffensive or w/e then yeah they were rude. Just communicate the importance of coalition building and working toward your shared goals/values.

Your feelings might be valid but stop being a pussy basically.

2023-10-16T17:01:48+00:00

Imagine subscribing to the idea of "all men are oppressors" and then being upset that people think you're an oppressor. Leopards eating face or something.

tzaanthor · 2023-10-17T02:15:45+00:00

>For some reason it really hurt.

I'm going to assume this is ironic, and you are aware of the obvious reasons why it hurt.

>I fully believe that the patriarchy is real and a problem.

The first rule of an authoritarian society is that one may not criticise it. Unless they were dragged into a van, beated, forced to apologise on public TV, and sent to re-education there is no patriarchy. That's what happens in a patriarchy.

>I dunno, I’m all for burning down the patriarchy until the women I treasure in my life lump me in with all those misogynistic bastards out there who deserve to be taken out (intentionally irony).

Sorry to be critical here, but genuine belief means no matter what happens, you do what is right. If you seriously believe that, you will not let these women deter you.

>I can’t imagine ever telling either of them that I don’t car about their feelings because I’d their sex.

Make sure you tell them that.

> my wife (43) and daughter (15) very derisively told me how no one cared,

It sounds like they're both 15 years old.

Title	Down with patriarchy…. Wait…
Author	basic_fella
Upvotes	93
Comments	65
Date	October 15, 2023 6:18 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/17895tq/down_with_patriarchy_wait/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/down-with-patriarchy-wait.1235205 https://theredarchive.com/post/1235205

Comments

(this will piss you off so skip ahead if you're not ready)