When is enough, enough?

PassedPawn_ · 2023-02-10T19:40:28+00:00

It's sad that they'd rather redefine equality than entertain the idea of males being disadvantaged in any way.

TheTinMenBlog · 2023-02-10T18:43:30+00:00

Another draft, if anyone has any corrections or feedback!

Often whenever I talk about the stark disadvantages faced by men and boys, someone is quick to wave it away as some kind of ‘catching up exercise’, often involving pendulums.

‘Well men were advantaged for millennia, now it’s our turn!’

Or other such silliness.

So I wanted to talk about this concept of ‘women catching up’, as over the last fifty years, women have done miraculously well in running after men, and have since, in many areas, blasted straight past them.]

Whilst women were disadvantaged in education and health historically, the story of today is now inverted, with women now enjoying better outcomes in both, not men.

So what is enough? And when do we stop?

American men lead in nine of the top ten causes of death, are you holding out for all ten out of ten, before the checkered flag is waved?

Boys are behind at every stage of education, and have been so for more than thirty years, is that enough revenge or 'pendulum swinging' for you?

When do we stop punishing today's men and boys, for the actions of their ancestors?

When is the so-called patriarchy smashed?

And when do we actually allow ourselves to help everybody who needs it?

~

United Nations ESCO

Mens health

Global Gender Gap Report 2022

Images by Black Kiwi Hug, Gradienta, Fabio Alves, Agreen and Kiwi Hug from Unsplash

hotpotato138 · 2023-02-10T22:05:25+00:00

I have no problem with women being successful, but it shouldn't be at the expense of men.

Invisible_Bias · 2023-02-11T00:48:14+00:00

The popular movements miss a key learning:

If you want allies, you need to be allies!

SamaelET · 2023-02-11T16:15:18+00:00

Be aware that the five years thing is total bullshit. It is a baseless claim to further their agenda. When you look at mortality and health inequality honestly, doing science instead of doing femininsm, it is obvious that men lower life expectancy is due to men's higher vulnerabilities.

They also claim that five years is the "natural gap". That if women don't outlive men by at least five years, it mean that society inject more money for men's health than women"s health. So they basically arguing that if men are more vulnerable to health issues, they don't deserve special care. But at the same time, they will push for women's health because women's vulnerabilities need special study. This is crazy. An even more crazy comparison is : imagine that we said that eldery people did not need the Covid vaccine in priority because it is natural for eldery people to be more fragile ?

Amazing-Bit6140 · 2023-02-10T22:13:58+00:00

Thank you for making these, they're a great representation of the data and state of things

webernicke · 2023-02-11T20:16:57+00:00

I always get a morbid validation out of those stats that show men facing worse outcomes in some metric in every country (i.e. mortality as you mention, suicide and incarceration would be others, off the top of my head.)

It reminds me that I'm not the delusional one to question the accepted narratives of male privileges and Patriarchy.

Because we can discuss and debate the existence and impact of oppression for various demographics until we're blue in the face. But how many groups face consistent, proven disadvantages everywhere on the face of the Earth?

uncle_batman · 2023-02-10T20:28:28+00:00

Do you have some sources for the stats about men dying at a rate of 1.4 times the rate at women? Also the leading in 9/10 top causes of death stat. I'm having a hard time understanding what those actually mean. There is approximately 1.8% more women than men in the states, but that's a far cry from 1.4x. And does the 9/10 stat imply that women die of more diverse causes?

I love your posts. Thank you for breaking down so much information into brief yet informative and unaggressive bits. It goes such a long way for being able to share them.

hottake_toothache · 2023-02-10T21:09:46+00:00

Enough for what? Enough for you to change your mind and life strategies? Then only you can decide. Enough for society to stop treating men as disposable? Don't hold your breath.

Far-Reputation7119 · 2023-02-10T23:02:54+00:00

Where did all this sudden favoritism of women come from? Why can’t men and women be treated equally?

blaizken_420 · 2023-02-15T02:24:33+00:00

Only the complete destruction of men will ever be enough for them. It can not be permitted.

frackingfaxer · 2023-02-11T02:33:45+00:00

I'm reminded of something I read in the introduction to, what I think is a relevant contemporary feminist text, Amia Srinivasan’s The Right to Sex:

[Feminism] is a political movement to transform the world beyond recognition. It asks: what would it be to end the political, social, sexual, economic, psychological, and physical subordination of women? It answers: we do not know; let us try and see.

When is enough enough? What will the world look like then? Will we even be recognizably human after it is over and done with? "We do not know."

thithothith · 2023-02-16T17:20:43+00:00

only issue with this is that it makes it sound like strict gender roles before actually were strictly advantageous to men, when I'm pretty sure they were advantageous to only those who naturally conformed to them (of either gender)

eg. Sure men were given more opportunity to be independent, but they were, and still not given the same opportunity to be dependent (as an amab with disability, this is a particularly harsh reality). Did you feel oppressed being cared for and protected and provided for going to school as a kid? You weren't independent then, but you could live better than many who were, and knew that if your provider could not provide (typically your dad, but parents in general), you would have better avenues available to you than your providers would if they could not be provided for. For women, it's not only a larger safety net, but also an entire domain of social and economic mobility that's nearly completely inaccesible to men, and always has been

azucarleta · 2023-02-20T19:10:16+00:00

This sub seems very fragile. I can go through this slideshow and agree with it in its entirety.

But because I think the concept of "the patriarchy" has value to understanding mens issues, and intersectional feminism is also very powerfully useful, I'm not really allowed to be myself here and speak about issues the way I see them. My mere solidarity with these issues isn't valued because I don't have the right ideology (catch the double entendre, please).

Title	When is enough, enough?
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	267
Comments	27
Date	February 10, 2023 6:43 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/10yzgdr/when_is_enough_enough/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/when-is-enough-enough.1151211 https://theredarchive.com/post/1151211

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