Working class men just don’t matter

hottake_toothache · 2024-02-13T21:23:12+00:00

Men have always been viewed as disposable. The "male privilege" notion is a new version of disposability for the modern world, which is much safer than the past.

It is not a coincidence that the term "male privilege" came into usage in the early 2000s, just as society's memory of the most recent military draft faded away.

frackingfaxer · 2024-02-14T04:36:58+00:00

Warren Farrell had a chapter in The Myth of Male Power in which he discussed the appalling state of workplace safety regulations in the U.S., and how this disproportionately affected men. Later he compared and contrasted this with the rapidity at which sexual harassment legislation became the law of the land.

In one decade, women had gotten more protection against offensive jokes in the workplace than men had gotten in centuries against being killed in the workplace.

That sentence has really stuck with me, and should give any left-leaning person some pause. One also cannot ignore the class angle at play here. As in, there's more concern about bourgeois women being subject to dirty jokes than working-class men being subject to maiming and death from unsafe working conditions.

There's nothing new about the working-class getting the short end of the stick, about the elites regarding them with contempt. What's new(er) is how the parties ostensibly there to represent them, e.g. the ones still calling themselves "labour" or "workers'" parties, have abandoned them entirely. In some cases, I think it goes beyond that. They now see the working-class practically as the enemy, being uncouth, uneducated, irredeemably racist and sexist, the men especially because of the patriarchy.

Realistic_W8974 · 2024-02-13T20:21:23+00:00

It's the empathy gap man, the death of one woman causes more horror than the death of ten men, much like how the same would go if you switch the word "woman" for "child" in the previous sentence.

I've seen leftists talk endlessly of men's exploitations of women: that's important, because we must shield women from such harms, but where is the shield for men who are psychologically abused by mainstream feminist and liberal culture? The same culture that tells men to open up, only to call those men incels for doing so. Yes leftism does fight for worker rights, that is until the 1980s and onwards, that's when the democrats in America have essentially abandoned the working class and spun the political game in an entirely culture-war focus.

There absolutely is a problem in western dating; I don't know whether to blame capitalism, feminism, technology, or the sexual revolution: romance is dead, long gone are the days of buying flowers and bonding with the woman, it's all about hitting check-marks today, a ruthlessly transactional relationship. Those red-pillers are extremists, but there is some truth in their condemnation of the sexual revolution, where the dating dynamics eventually follow suite the financial markets' ruthlessness in a capitalist society.

ERiC_693 · 2024-02-13T20:39:14+00:00

You will see feminism is a rich, well connected women. Working class women working at checkouts never come to feminist minds nor homeless women etc...

These activists are all rich and for themselves. Working class people have no representation at all.

Feminists see "men" as corporate CEOs, investment bankers, politicians etc. Feminism does not look at men on different levels because feminists are usually rich white women so they are surrounded by rich white men that they resent. They're not interacting nor interested in men at the bottom.

OhRing · 2024-02-13T19:47:47+00:00

True, but no one working class or below matters. Everyone is a tool for the wealthy to exploit and then throw away when we are no longer useful. Gender and sex based issues are important, but class is above all. It’s the reason why our society is falling apart and why the planet is falling apart.

But everyone would rather naval gaze about their identities, spread division and hate than join together to fight the real problem.

throbgoblyn · 2024-02-13T23:26:40+00:00

I think it’s important to understand that modern liberalism is a complete parody of itself and not left wing at all, lacking any critical analysis of capitalism, and generally seeks to uphold capitalism. Academic post-modernism rejected all of the tenets that defined liberalism and it’s been a downward spiral ever since. Things like peer reviewed research, the scientific method, intelligent debates from opposing views, etc, were disregarded in favor of existential philosophical theories. Theories not based in research, data, or factual evidence.

Through modern liberalism things like feminism become a completely useless framework. We are all exploited by the same system to differing degrees. None of us have a right to healthcare or mental healthcare. The exorbitant cost of healthcare is never brought up when the issue of men not going to the doctor is being discussed. The capitalist machine pays you poverty level wages and demands that as a man you take the least amount of time off & tough it out so you can get back to sacrificing your body for profits that you’ll never see. Because you need to keep a roof over your head or your family’s head, you’ll do it. When you struggle, liberal feminism will tell you it’s all your own toxic fault. When in reality it’s the same capitalist system that also exploits women in different ways.

Any brand of feminism, anti-racism, or similar social justice frameworks are only effective from a true Marxist/Socialist/Communist perspective. Because they address the exploitation inherent in the system. They understand that exploitation affects us all in different ways. By the time these ideas like feminism, anti-racism, decolonization, etc, hit the liberal mainstream, they are effectively neutered.

NegotiationBetter837 · 2024-02-13T22:52:29+00:00

Our men favoring society, at least according to feminists, sees men as completely expandable. Capitalism, by it's nature is dehumanizing (Marcuse) and views the individual male worker just as a tool, without any value despite the use to make profit. That's why workers will always suffer under capitalism.

ArmchairDesease · 2024-02-14T11:35:09+00:00

he tried to refute the statistic where men are more likely to commit suicide. He blamed it on ‘Toxic masculinity’

I swear to God, I read someone stating that the reason men commit suicide more is that they don't care about causing trauma to whomever finds their dead body.

Mind you, it was not a random troll. It was a real association trying to contrast the most common "manosphere" talking points. They were saying, in perfectly good faith, that the reason men kill themselves in greater number than women is because they are more egoists.

I'm still nauseous.

Gantolandon · 2024-02-13T23:28:33+00:00

First of all: avoid alcohol while you still can. It will make you feel more miserable, cause all sort of completely avoidable health problems, and make life even harder. Drinking to cope is pretty much killing yourself in a way that’s not only slow, but also painful. Don’t do it.

Also: we grew up in a society that simultaneously pushed the idea that men who don’t have sex are worthless, and promised us is the way to true love, intimacy, and companionship. Both notions are false. There are people who have sex all the time, with different people every few days and they are completely alone, because they are unable to emotionally connect with anyone. There are pairs that used to have amazing sex and now they can’t stand each other, because it was the only thing they had in common and the hormonal high that fueled their relationship died down. There were many people living in celibacy (voluntary or not) who achieved great things and no one would call them worthless.

The thing everyone needs is not sex, but any meaningful relationship: a partner can provide one, but so can friends, family members, or pets.

CimZim · 2024-02-14T02:07:59+00:00

There was an article I read during lockdown how men were more likely to suffer from workplace accidents.

This has been the case ever since we moved away from horrible, disgusting, inherently dangerous workplaces. It used to be that both sexes would be harmed or killed daily, now it is mainly men.

It’s shocking yet how come we don’t hear any thing on similar topics like this in the media.

The media only talks about what sells, not what matters.

Just 4 months ago I fell off a conveyor belt and hit my ribs, truly a painful experience. I wake up everyday and my body hurts, back, joints aches. Who wouldn’t… from lifting heavy things 11 hours straight, so the company can make more profit. I got used to the pain after a while.

I hope you're doing better, actually better, as of now. Also that you got money from workers comp, which is something your employer should have paid out if you got hurt on the job.

Where is the male privilege the mainstream media narrative claimed. Men have it better, get paid more and have better lives.

Again, they're just pushing the narrative that will get more clicks, not the truth.

What he didn’t realise, truly kind and empathetic people are rare.

This is true, regardless of your age, sex, income, ethnicity. Doesn't make it easier, but know that many are struggling due to this.

If I opened up to how I feel no one will listen, even your own friends don’t know what to say.

I hope you find that talking to brothers and sisters here who support men's rights helps, at least some. Feel free to dm if you need to vent.

I’m Incelibate which makes my life even more laughable and pathetic.

NO. You are not pathetic just because you're a virgin or have difficulties with dating. That's bullshit.

Most guys like me aren’t even terrible people maybe an minority are. I’ve been around those communities for a long time.

Please take breaks, friend. As a woman who devoted years to speaking with incels, mgtow, redpillers, and just manosphere writers in general...know that it slowly eats away at you. Staying too long in echo chambers of pain, misandry, misogyny, and "revenge" only serves to fold your own hurt back onto yourself. There's nothing wrong with discussing how you feel with people going through the same thing, but please don't place the rest of the world's hurt on your shoulders.

The same recurring pattern I’ve noticed is how a lot don’t have a stake in society or purpose. We’re outcasts, weird kids that sat alone during lunch time. We have all kind of issues. Just disposable men, no use for society, or any worth.

You have worth as a thinking, feeling, sentient being. You have personhood, and rights, and deserve to be treated as such. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool or manipulative.

AdamChap · 2024-02-13T21:36:10+00:00

Don't hang around other incels my man. Not worth it at all. If you feel like an outcast and go hang with other outcasts you're more likely just going to get worse, not better.

I wonder how many incels are non-believers? If you have no where left to go, try God?

Although you could try skipping that step and just to try to embody the principle that no matter how hard life has become you must always try to rise above it.

I’m Incelibate which makes my life even more laughable and pathetic.

Nah brother you do not believe this. I'm begging you not to. This feeling of inadequacy will only lead to further ruin. Do you know the difference between a guy who has had sex once and a guy who has had sex zero times? Nothing at all. Indistinguishable. Your girlfriend would think it lame either way because the difference between someone who fucks like a virgin and someone who doesn't is usually a fair fair bit of sex. Even experts can seem novice with a new partner. So in some ways everyone's first time with a new person is like any first time.

So with that being said, you are no longer an incel. You've had sex before. No one will know the truth, no woman will tell. Seriously, fake it to ya make it. It's this confidence whether fake or not that will carry you.

Given time the confidence will become more real, and all of this is a hard promise.

kyle_fall · 2024-02-14T05:58:05+00:00

Have you looked into self-improvement/meditation for the emotional issues and then starting your own side hustle for extra income so you don't have to do manual labor forever?

I feel you bro, doing that is the only thing that saved me.

PlacatedPlaceholder · 2025-03-23T23:23:45+00:00

I'm sorry you're feeling this way; honestly, speaking from my own experience [and hoping you can see something that can help you], I've realized that the same weapon that has "emasculated" you is the same weapon that can "masculinize" you.

I've fallen into the mindset that there's no point in trying to prove that you are a man because the standard is inherently contradictory. Truthfully, there's no standard that you have to meet but your own, and if you believe that standard matches what other people expect from you, I'd ask you to question them.

You're inherently enough; you've already survived so much life; are you going to give power to something that wants to dehumanize you? So, I don't know, really; all most of us can do is try to live kind lives, avoiding harm, murder and sex crimes against other people; the rest is negotiable.

It's been a year, and I hope you've found more peace. There's no shame in seeking out a trauma-informed therapist and a pain management specialist.

DrankTooMuchMead · 2024-02-14T18:10:03+00:00

While I have been around my share of bad people (probably 10% of the population) I still believe the vast majority of people are good.

However, most men are not used to suddenly talking about strong feelings and a bombardment of emotion. We were never taught this. We were taught the opposite of dealing with our feelings.

I will give you an example.I made contact with a friend I hadn't see in years. Apparently he ghosted everyone to go live on the streets of San Francisco.

We talked at a restaurant and he started weeping. It caught me off guard and I didn't know what to say or do. So I shifted my attention to help him solve his problems.

Title	Working class men just don’t matter
Author	Throwaway6969669gay
Upvotes	199
Comments	38
Date	February 13, 2024 3:39 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1apwdvi/working_class_men_just_dont_matter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/working-class-men-just-dont-matter.1245325 https://theredarchive.com/post/1245325

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