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[–]Fantoche_Dreemurr422 points423 points424 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Men having the option to sign out parental rights and obligations would solve single mom issues within 5 years and destroy women's most lucrative scam overnight.
[–]StfuBrainlet172 points173 points174 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Which is why it will never happen.
[–]Fantoche_Dreemurr91 points92 points93 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. Single moms mean a nice dependent block of the population and divorce rape ensures transfer of wealth from men to women by gunpoint.
[–]NoThirst15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
...neither will his election attempt based on logic.
[–]julianleung46 points47 points48 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Sign out of vagina support system will make the comsumerism society collapse.
This is what the elites dont want.
[–]throwawaygoodvibess33 points34 points35 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly one of the reasons we have mgtow. The rules and laws and system will not change to fix the ridiculous problems we have. Too many making too many profits. And now men finally realize they have the option of simply opting out, aka going their own way. #Mgtow.
[–]Fantoche_Dreemurr4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know but it just seems so common sense and fair. She wants the kid? Great! He doesn't? He ops out and she can raise it alone.
The opposite is already not only true but feminists fight tooth and nail for their precious child killing "right"
[–]U-9411 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Do you know how much money you'd be taking out of lawyers pockets with that one?
[–]EmergencyWestern62 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
not very much, very few child support claims need a lawyer, they are almost entirely done by the couples themselves out of court, usually the court just stamps the agreement
very few divorces involve courts at all
[–]U-941 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's not what I hear from divorce rape stories with legal fees. Somebody's making money. I should've become a divorce lawyer. I'd hang out at bars, whispering in married people's ears "Go ahead and cheat, nobody will know."
[–]Buce1231 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Social media has that covered
[–]Fantoche_Dreemurr0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Billions for sure. That sort of pro men, common sense law will never see the light of day. Better trap men instead.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (61 children) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]White_Mlungu_Capital70 points71 points72 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Will wait for the reply, and for femibots heads to explode.
Also wait for the sexist male pig card to be played but not an answer.
[–]BertTheWelder32 points33 points34 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No reply will come.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]FutureSquall34 points35 points36 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You forgot the “Incel” and ever popular “REEEEEEEE”.
[–]catgirloblo10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Shitttt thats an excellent point
[–]n0cternel6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If abortion is kept legal, and it should be, men shouldnt have to pay. Although the man should have to sign away the rights before a certain point. After a few months if he's informed of pregnancy and does nothing he can't choose to not support it 6 months later.
[–]Vman20 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes that would be a standard caveat. Just like women can't have an abortion once they are xx weeks pregnant.
[–]silverado19950 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Except paternity cannot be verified until birth
[–]Socialist1332 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The only standard feminazis have are double standards
[–]ShadeBabez-2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As a woman, I agree that pads and tampons are an essential need for us and shouldn’t be taxed.... but then again so is toilet paper. Why isn’t that tax exempt?
[+]johnjohnfromreddit-92 points-91 points-90 points 7 years ago* (49 children) | Copy Link
Yeah getting an abortion isn't that easy
Also, it's pretty hard to "accidentally" get her pregnant.
I get why it seems like a double standard, but girls very rarely get abortions when they know who the father is (and he wants to keep it)
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link
[+]johnjohnfromreddit-78 points-77 points-76 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Well you know I don't want a baby and I am pretty damn happy I have the right to "not keep my pants on" and also not have to take care of a kid
Oh, because it seems to matter in this sub, I am a man
[–]Nate83556 points57 points58 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Not sure what your point is sounds like u just abandoned ur whole argument. U might be a man but nigga u a bitch
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[removed]
[–][deleted] 38 points39 points40 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What a mindless rant, you came onto a sub without any knowledge about what it stands for and spouted your blue pill bullshit, no wonder this isn't going well for you. MGTOW is not anti-sex or sexist you complete moron, it's about men being free in a society that see's them as expendable while it glorifies women.
[–]nochilifordinner-3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sit back down kid, adults are speaking.
[–]helphant27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I’m confused where you think people in this sub are anti-sex or whatever and why you think people are being misogynistic . The entire point of this post was to call out the double standard that women can abort a baby if they don’t want it while men don’t have that option.
You even just said you abandoned your original argument, while in the same sentence attacking those who literally just changed your mind. If you want to have a real argument say what you believe in so people can actually help explain their side. You saying “it’s sad to see people go down this way” after agreeing with them the sentence before is why they are calling you a bitch to begin with. Take a stand on one side or the other and if your mind is changed, don’t go attacking the people who just changed it
[+]johnjohnfromreddit-15 points-14 points-13 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What? I don't get what you are trying to say. I'm referring to some of the replies I got for calling this sub sexist.
Don't feel offended I wasn't trying to attack people like you, just the general "incel" attitude of this sub
And the anti sex refers to someguy telling me girls should keep their pants on if they don't want to get pregnant
[–]throwawaygoodvibess17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Look I agree with women being able to have sex outside of wanting to get pregnant. BUT, they are biologically female and females get pregnant. Thus is life. Thus is biology. So if a woman gets pregnant, she should deal with the consequences. And not have other taxpayers pay for it. I’m in favor of some insurance covered abortions but not unlimited abortions at any trimester. I believe in some coverage and some limits.
Luckily it’s not that expensive so if a woman wants one, her and the father or family should cover it. I believe in legalized abortions almost at any state/time but the patients/parties should be financially responsible, unless medical emergencies. Some coverage should be allowed for first trimester abortions though. Since that’s early and a decision is made early and it is much cheaper.
Now, a very important point here is that if women have this option, men should too. Men should 100% have the option to opt out in the first trimester or first two trimesters, and should also be financially responsible for the abortions along with the woman.
[–]McUserton7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I don't get why this guy can't see how obvious this is. Internalized misandry?
[–]novhaku3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Anti-sex? How stupid can you possibly be to miss what people are talking about that much? The point is just that men should be allowed to have a paper abortion too, period. If you want to get baby-trapped it's your own problem. It doesn't "seem like a double standard", it IS one. The reason people say that they shouldn't lower their pants is that it's to highlight the hypocrisy, because it's the "argument" only used against men. Period. Nobody gives a damn about your sexual life, a lot of people here frequently P&D, it's just that if you don't want to be fucked over by an unwanted kid you apparently have to become asexual, while abortion is almost encouraged when it comes to some people, and seen as exactly normal even if you have a completely irresponsible sexual life by the state. That's just it.
Also women DO have abortions out of nowhere nowadays. But even if they didn't, the point is that they have a "get out of jail" card at their disposal if they want to, while men don't. If logic is sexist to you, that's your problem; you are the one striking me as sexist here. One gender is clearly in position of forcing something on the other and the opposite isn't true.
If you want people to give you decent arguments, then bring a decent argument to the table yourself. "I want to be able to fuck around" isn't one. It's perfectly possible for one to be able to fuck around without this double standard existing. That's the reason the replies you got were so hostile; because you don't even address the point and just think with your dick despite how unrelated it is instead. And things like the women-are-wonderful effect creating statements like "it's hard to get pregnant by accident" (which is extremely funny, because the ones you're defending always use the "condom breaking" excuse when they get pregnant "by accident" too young.) or thinking that abortion is used responsibly (and yes I'm pro-abortion, it doesn't change the fact that it's abused and there IS a double standard. It's not different just because you want it to be. ) didn't help at all.
If you don't answer the question or just say "but to me it's different" (when it's not) don't be surprised if people don't take you seriously. There is only ONE subject here: there is a power imbalance (one of many, many, many others but whatever ) that favorize women compared to men and that can be absolutely terrible for a man's life, making his whole life depends of how much of an asshole a woman can possibly be without any recourse. Period.
[–]PVT-Sebastian0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Go to your God damned safe space and hang yourself. People like you are the scum of society and the ones who keep it back. People start to see this and retaliate. We will we your sorry ass in some years
[–]Nate8357 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Well put personally I’m not completely with this subs ideology but the point of this post was that men are treated unfairly and that’s certainly true at times. Unfortunately many of these people have had poor experiences with women that have negatively impacted their life to a significant degree. So you should just consider their hurt before u come in here arguing with them and consider how lucky u are to not have experienced such devastating losses. Although I will admit that some ideas here are quite out there. Anyways I really don’t give a fuck I have no horses in this metaphorical race I was just arguing for the fun of it and thought of something funny to say. Good day sir
[–]johnjohnfromreddit-5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I just think the post compares two different things. Anyway, I guess these people have had rough things with girls, but so did I. Just in high school, it was being treated as a fuckboy (when I was a virgin most of the time) while some girls played with my feelings.
So ye I have experienced hard stuff with girls, obviously not as much as some people here, but that doesn't mean you should follow such ideology.
If you want to go your own way, fine. But don't turn it into a crusade against women🤷♂️
[–]swansong1911 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So a woman (barring risk to the mother, rape, incest) should have the right to kill a baby (after 6 weeks it has a heart beat) because it's inconvenient...but a man shouldn't be able to opt out of it's care if it's inconvenient to him?
Frankly I find abortion as a means of birth control to be an incredibly selfish and self absorbed notion. There are a myriad of birth control options and Plan B...and abstinence is definitely an option for those who absolutely don't want kids.
To suggest that people have to succumb to their baser desires because they can't be controlled...like animals in heat...is simply an excuse to absolve oneself of personal responsibility.
[–]Nate83510 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean tbh I feel like the only reason this sub exists is because of the feminists that hate men and are always talking shit and on some dumb shit, this is the counter balance for it. Makes sense now that I think about it.
[–]niggahh6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think you know the meaning of a fuckboi... Fuckbois aren't virgin like ever... Your trauma seems utterly fake miss bitch ...
[–]McUserton3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're granting agency to the man and not the woman. What is so hard for your to understand about the ability to exercise CHOICE in either scenario. If the father wants to be a part of the child's life then he needs to pay child support. If he's willing to completely forfeit his parents rights that's his ... get ready for it ... CHOICE. But men aren't allowed to have financial abortions, ie, choose not to pay for the child: only women can do that by virtue of the physical abortion. Are they identical scenarios? No, of course not, but surely you're not so daft that you can't see the saliency of the point being made here.
[–]DeadliftRx23 points24 points25 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Are women so fucking stupid that they don't understand the risk of having sex? Are they that fucking worthless, stupid, dumb,or pathetic? Is that what you're saying? They have the vagina. They control access to their vaginas in all but the most extreme circumstances, so why can't they take responsibility for what falls out of it? Are they that fucking pathetic and stupid? It seems to be thst what you're saying is that women are stupid and irresponsible and pathetic.
Glad you see it the way it is. Women are pathetic, stupid, irresponible, worthless holes.
[–]T00000098 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The word you're looking for is.... Yes.
[–]Older_Miggy17 points18 points19 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Getting an abortion is one of the easiest things you can do in this country.
Are you really that naive?
[–]RememberSLDL15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You make some good points. However, "accidentally" may occur through condom breakage, "forgetting" to take birth control, generating a child with another man and lumping the responsibility on to the "accidental" party.
[–]Sir_manalot9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is bullshit. One of the most common pro-choice arguments is that accidents are pretty common.
The 99.7% effectiveness of birth control is per sexual encounter, not overall.
So if you have sex once, no problem.
But a hundred? Three hundred? It becomes much more likely that a pregnancy can happen.
I am pro-choice. Women deserve the right to choose when they want children (if only to keep the crime rates down).
But you cannot hold this double standard here. If women can choose to abort the child, then men deserve the right to not be responsible for said child (especially since we are now equal and women are no longer dependent on men for money).
My body, my choice, my responsibility. No more hypocracy or bullshit.
[–]johnjohnfromreddit-3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Odds don't stack tho. But to give you an idea women usually are only able to become pregnant for 2-3 days a month generally (as I remember)
So let's say 10%
And in this 10% there is the 0.3%
So 0.03% (if wearing a condom)
And let's say for the sake of it that every time you come in a girl who is in the procreation period you 100% have a kid.
You'd need to have sex 3 333 times for the odds to be somewhat high of you having a kid, or every single day for almost 10 years straight
And this 0.3% is a small, micro fissure in the condom. So not much sperm can reach it.
And after that, the odds that the girl decides that she is entitled to your money, let alone that she knows 100% you re the father
So yeah, not that common. But, it happens. And so do fase rape accusation. Some people take advantage of the legal system but lets not make it a gensered issue!
[–]Sir_manalot6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That isn't how probability works (and you are also assuming that the birth control is used perfectly each time, which is silly as humanity is by nature imperfect).
ex: if the failure rate is 00.3% (example number) per sexual encounter, then the cumulative probability (failing one or more times) after a hundred sexual encounters is about 25.951574046% (calculated using the binomial theorem). Note: failure doesn't always equal pregnancy.
This issue is ultimately why single-motherhood (and why abortion was legalized) spiked post pill.
[–]johnjohnfromreddit-2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I know and you defo went further in depth than me
And the thing is that while failure doesn't always equal pregnancy, we know for a fact that women are only able te be fecondes like what, 10% of the time? And that failure doesn't mean the condom is completely destroyed, so the amount of semen flowing through is pretty low
But again, you said it, people don't always use condoms or any protextion for that matter, perfectly
[–]-cunnilinguini4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
It’s a lot easier than trying to avoid child support.
And a man doesn’t “get” a woman pregnant, it’s wording like this that suggests men are somehow implicitly more responsible for the babies two people create. Pregnancy occurs through the actions of two people equally; a man contributes half the ingredients, the woman contributes the other half, and a baby is made (I’ll spare some of the details you must have learned in grade school). I get that, since a man ejaculates into a woman, it seems like he’s “getting” her pregnant but that’s really not the case; men aren’t shooting babies into women, their parts are just as much responsible for conception.
It also seems as though your choice of words is suggesting that every unwanted pregnancy is the fault of the man and that he’s making it happen intentionally. I didn’t think I’d have to explain this to a grown ass man, and I hope I’m not the first to tell you this, but accidents do in fact happen. If precautions aren’t taken (by both parties) to mitigate these accidents, blame shouldn’t be placed on 1 of the 2 people involved.
And that last part just seems entirely irrelevant. Whether or not she knows who the father is or if he wants to keep it, he wouldn’t have a say in if he becomes a parent legally at the moment. That’s the issue being addressed. Obviously, it would be fantastic if every child brought into this world was raised, cared for and loved by the people who created them. It would be equally as fantastic if men and women were given an equal choice in determining their own parenthood, but that isn’t the case as it stands and that is the double standard being discussed. You claimed you’re a man somewhere in this thread as if that somehow validated your argument, but all you’ve done is show that you’re incapable of seeing the underlying cause of an issue that has everything to do with you; women are given every opportunity to avoid responsibility while men are figuratively and literally shackled with responsibility whenever and wherever possible.
[+]johnjohnfromreddit-6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I get your point but I never said it was the guy's responsibility. If it's consensual, accidents can happen, but that's rare, and even rarer is the woman keeping the kid when the dad doesn't want too and even rarer her sueing her for child support.
Abortions are way more common. And not simple. That's my point.
And yeah sexism affects both gensers but going out saying men are opprossed by abortion and child support is... farfetched to say the least
[–]-cunnilinguini8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That’s exactly what you implied when you said that it’s hard for a man to accidentally get a woman pregnant. Just quit, none of those things are as rare as you make them out to seem. Like if you really think it’s rare for an uninvolved father to pay child support I don’t know what to tell you 😂
Even if it was rare for a woman to keep a kid that the father doesn’t want, the fact is that the decision making ability lies exclusively in their hands. You’re going off topic to make a (not so great) point that doesn’t even apply. No one is crying oppression, but that doesn’t make the situation a great one to be in.
Believe me when I say they have enough people sticking up for them. They don’t need you (especially not for this one), you can take a day off and know that they’ll be fine (at least by your own logic, you did say you don’t want a kid and don’t have one because of the choices you make; that goes double for them because they get to make even more choices than you do for a longer period of time). All anyone is saying in this thread is “we want the same sort of choice women have in becoming a parent because men and women are equally responsible for a child’s creation” and you’re babbling about the rarity of specific situations under the impression that you’re making a coherent argument.
Let’s hold all of our baby making brothers and sisters equally accountable, and give everyone the opportunity to terminate parenthood. Yeah, try to disagree with that, I honestly dare you. You’d invalidate every word you’ve so much as thought of typing on this topic
[–]krissy_1731 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hypothetically, a woman has become pregnant. it’s an accident, the condom broke. He wants to keep it. She doesn’t. How do you decide the fate of this unborn foetus? Not a joke or a trick or anything. Genuinely curious.
[–]-cunnilinguini0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It dies. Doesn’t make sense to make someone carry a baby they don’t want for a year. The man will have opportunities to have a child later if he so pleases
[–]johnjohnfromreddit-2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"Let's hold all of our baby making brothers and siser equally accountable"
Looked tbh I'm tired to debate on that shit, so I didn't read everything you write but if that is your conclusion I can't disagree
But that doesn't change my point of view on what some of yall here think, and a lot considering the upvotes in some ridiculous statement
Anyway, I got my karma reduced enough in here, as expected, so peace and remember that if you want any social change, don't become like the sjws: moderation will make you win
Ok ciao
[–]-cunnilinguini5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’d take like, 15 seconds to read through the comment. Not sure why you’d start a debate while you’re too tired to finish it so that sounds like a cop out. I’m happy with that outcome, I just wish you’d see through your own bullshit too
[–]NotSoHappyApple0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She chooses to keep it that is her choice.
She has no right to demand money from the man for her own personal choice.
[–]PeterPumpkinHead910 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol, you are a naive one.
[+]Danvuh-36 points-35 points-34 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Dude don't bother, there's zero reasoning in this sub.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
And there's zero reasoning for this statement. Hypocrite much?
[–]Danvuh-2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Well the thing is, that comparison made by OP is a false equivalence. So no I'm not a hypocrite.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Whatever floats your boat.
[–]Danvuh-2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Yes I like being right thanks
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Danvuh-1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Duh-hu
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[+]johnjohnfromreddit-14 points-13 points-12 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Isn't that an incel subreddit? Cuz then they realy shouldn't bother about child support
I hoped for them to be a bit more civilized, kudos to u/rememberSLDL for behaving like a human, I appreciate it
[–]RedSoxDamageControl14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a voluntary celibacy subreddit
[–]CiceroVoltaire79 points80 points81 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
stop using logic! logic and reason are misogyny!
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
[–]febreezing_hobos55 points56 points57 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
There should be a legal procedure a man can go through if no parental rights are desired. Just like an abortion, you will never be allowed contact with the child after the decision has been made.
[–]xeq93737 points38 points39 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A fair trade. No financial obligation, then no contact. It's a deal.
[–]Ezreal356 points57 points58 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
This double standard is enough to make a lot of guys pro-life.
[–]theduke56241 points42 points43 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. I'm pro-choice by nature, but turn into pro-life because it gives them a taste of real equality.
[–]ThirstySasquatch20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ive also found myself in the same situation
[–]AlexJonesTrannyP0rn0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
meh, I am still pro-choice, but i think our laws should reflect the nature of choosing more equally. This meme is right, men have less choices here, and that is not okay.
The answer should not be to regress to even fewer choices/freedoms.
[–][deleted] 44 points45 points46 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Her body, her choice
His money, her choice
The only control men have over their own lives is to either avoid women entirely or get a vasectomy and even then the latter won't protect a man from de facto marriage laws and misandry of the family courts.
[–]saintjimmy1159 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And let’s not forget about those damn false rape accusations
[–]scruffyshoulders3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or all the STDs.
[–]PrinceRaj5336 points37 points38 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How dare you ask this you sexist mysogistic pig rrrreeeeeee /s
[–]carltonbanks9535 points36 points37 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
this has been my argument against abortion since I was around 9-10, it's not fair that men have to suffer loss of wages to a woman he's most likely no longer with and a kid he didn't want or couldn't afford and it's somehow still his responsibility to pay for the kid as well as being blamed for "sticking his penis where it didn't belong". had this conversation with my older sis and she acted like men are the sole reason pregnancies happen, like women aren't the gate keepers of sex in the first place, essentially removing all agency from women and it pisses me off.
this whole "her body her choice" shtick really grinds my gears because it takes 2 to have sex and make a child but only one to make the decision whether or not to keep the kid and it's just not right. feminism has gone to far and made their ulterior motives come into the forefront with all the man hating and female superiority. I had 0 respect for any woman who claimed to be a feminist in the 21st century as a kid but now I just absolutely loathe them
[–]the2xstandard27 points28 points29 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
I'm split on this. On the one hand paper abortions would finally give men some reproductive rights. In a perfect world where the mother could keep actually steady job and afford to raise the child all by herself this would work, but we all know that single mothers are the armpit of society.
Lets be real for a second. If Chad and Tryone could just sign a piece of paper and absolve all financial liability... all this really means is that big daddy government is going to be paying for the kid... and by extension all the tax payers are paying for that kid... since men as a whole are positive contributors and women are a net drain... this means all men would be paying for that kid. If you apply the transitive property here we would literally all be cucking ourselves into paying for thugspawn.
I know that to some extent I am already paying for single mommies through the endless entitlement programs made for them. Yes, it is definitely already happening. My argument is that it would happen on a much larger scale. Not sure if I'd be okay with that. For now my solution is to wait for artificial wombs if I want kids.
[–]HypnoWyzard5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Glad to see one voice that isn't quite reacting purely from an emotional stance. Yes, there isn't an equitable dynamic here. If a woman makes one choice, there is no life to be concerned about. If she makes another, a life exists which must be cared for. We have all contributed as a society to a system which treats her equivalently to a child in that she has little to no financial responsibility. Only men are bound by law to being responsible. We must register for selective service to be responsible for national conflicts. (At least in the US. I don't know about other national policies on this.) Pay for our children, whether by blood or by environment, such as actively filling the role of father for an arbitrary period of time. And own our emotional burdens with virtually zero support from the rest of the world.
I look around at the behavior of an unsettling percentage of women and must admit, that yes, they can't be trusted with responsibility. Personally, I take pride in the responsibilities I fulfill, but it is also my responsibility to not create children unless I want to be responsible for that choice. Women are so unsuited for responsibility that they are actively joining in on causes that take even more from them and call it empowering. Feminism has perhaps the lowest opinion of women of any ideology that has ever come before. But women have never seemed to deserve a great deal more. I was around when Romania outlawed abortion in all cases in the 80's and caused an overwhelming number of abandoned children to fill the orphanages well beyond that country's ability to care for them. So the unwanted children more often than not failed to get any sort of social interaction during formative years and grew up irreversibly damaged. I mean actual brain damage, because the social stuff we all take for granted was learned, even if badly, from other humans. You keep a human from ever learning that stuff and their brain will never form correctly. So abortion must exist, sadly.
You make the right point. If we give irresponsible men the ability to absolve themselves of even more responsibility, the rest of us are carrying their burden for them. It's precisely the same argument, from a male perspective, as the abortion argument. And because of that, it makes the same error. It allows an out for people who ought to grow from owning their responsibilities. I'd rather not make the mistake of feminists and think so poorly of men as to give them the option to push their burdens onto everyone except themselves because of some mistaken belief that they can't handle the same thing that billions of men before them have.
[–]swansong192 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
overwhelming number of abandoned children to fill the orphanages failed to get any sort of social interaction during formative years
overwhelming number of abandoned children to fill the orphanages
failed to get any sort of social interaction during formative years
I don't understand how both those things could be true
[–]HypnoWyzard3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
As I mentioned, there was nowhere near the needed supply of caregivers for the abandoned children. Many children would go for weeks between interactions beyond feeding. By formative years, I mean the first 3-4. Children don't self-socialize much before learning the basics from adults. These kids were being desperately offered for adoption all over the world, but especially to the US. There are many hundreds of cases of violent sociopathy among them due to their early experiences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770
[–]swansong195 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ahhh...ok...
When you said "social interaction" and "formative years" I assumed you meant peer interaction. But when talking about infants/toddlers it makes much more sense.
Thanks
[–]Pharan5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're right. And if abortion were illegal then the fertility rates drop even further and the collapse of the welfare state becomes more imminent.
There is no win inside the current dynamics, so no point in playing the game.
[–]gtowerthrowaway1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Men's rights first, we can argue about the rest afterward.
I view this as a matter of justice, but also from a pragmatic place - if women retain the rights they currently possess, society will collapse and then we won't have to worry about who's going to pay for what. We're all fucked.
But when guys on r/MGTOW can't get it straight that our first priority needs to be men's welfare, you can understand why we never make headway. Not trying to go belligerent on your ass, just pointing out why the needle never moves.
[–]carninja681 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or we just all welfare programs for single mothers
[–]-cunnilinguini0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Who do you think would foot the bill for the kid when the father is thrown in jail for not being able to pay child support anyways? If the mother decides to keep the child (which is a decision only she gets to make at the moment), someone’s paying for it. If we put the decision making process in the hands of everyone actually involved in making the child and more men opt out of paternity and it’s financial responsibilities, more women would be motivated to terminate the pregnancy anyways. There might be some increase in government spending for the kids that these women do decide to carry to term, but I’d imagine not having child support to fall back on would influence that decision enough that the increase would be negligible at best
[–]whatevre669870 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think you're missing his point, which is substantially, if Tyrone actually wants a child, all he has to do is get a paper abortion and now the government will subsidize the raising of that child while both Tyrone and Mommy get the same family dynamic they'd have otherwise. This puts more money in their pockets for having offspring at the expense of everyone else.
The government is not going to be making sure Tyrone and Mommy aren't functioning as a family unit as its not in the best interest of the child to break them apart even if they are.
The cases where the dad gets thrown in jail because they can't pay for child support is irrelevant because the government's already paying for those kids and they'd be paying for even more with paper abortions.
These paper abortions are only supposed to make sure you don’t pay child support right? It’s not as if the government wouldn’t be subsidizing the raising of the child if the parents aren’t able to pay for it regardless. This is about putting more power in the hands of men who, historically, have had their offspring weaponized against them.
One way or the other the government pays for kids who don’t have parents who can pay for them. Most people who can pay for kids they want, do. If “Tyrone” (never been a fan of the Chad/Tyrone naming thing, besides the fact that I’ve never met anyone with either of those names, I don’t know what point is being made) is going through the trouble of waiving his paternity while she’s still pregnant exclusively because he knows he wants the kid but doesn’t want to pay for it, chances are he wouldn’t be able to pay for it without some help anyways.
These cases sound like they’d be rare, and when they do happen, it seems as though the government would be picking up the check where it probably would have anyways. Personally, I’d rather my taxes went to raising children than paying for predator drones anyways, but I don’t think there’d be a large measurable increase in tax dollars going to aid programs.
[–]RPDunkleBomb0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What if... Now hear me out for a second... We just didn't make the government step in?
Does the government step in when disabled war vets are homeless and dying? Does it step in when drug abuse is running rampant and thousands of lives are ruined?
Darwinism is the natural state of the world, and we prevent it out of pity. Give it one generation and suddenly the loose attitude towards family planning would change.
I think the answer is to wind back daddy government. Education and Heath care should be free for all children but that is for all children. If you don't want a hard life don't be a single mother. It's not like pregnancy is some kind of unavoidable accident that it was in 1930. It's now definitely a lifestyle choice. If you chose a shitty situation to have children in then it's on you, not the tax payer. So no, I don't agree that child support should be replaced by big daddy government. In fact child support should be strictly limited to the bare essentials a child requires. If you want a better future for your child then stay on good terms with the father.
[–]keten0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What if instead of child support there was a tax on procreation paid for by all parents to fund these social programs? I think child support has bigger issues than just the fact that men have no reproductive rights.
It incentives dysfunctional families since a woman can get more money if they can cut the man out of the child's life.
Plus you see a lot of men in jail because unfortunately neither income nor expenses are always reliably stable but good luck convincing a judge to lower your child support payment, "best interests of the child" after all. In a real family fluctuating funds are dealt with by making sacrifices but in the legal world you'll just be accused of "voluntary underemployment" and thrown in jail.
If child support was managed by the IRS as an income tax that funded social programs then you basically establish a shared risk pool across all parents so that fluctuating incomes neither lead to men in jail or hopelessly impoverished without sacrificing actual child services. Plus no perverse incentives in family court. Plus it's just a hell of a lot simpler and would put less strain on parents lives from dealing with family court for these matters. Seems like a win win.
[–]JihadNinjaCowboy22 points23 points24 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A valid point.
Just another example of how while women get choices and rights, men only get obligations and responsibilities.
[–]Sneakybobo14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Cause Vagina
[–]Rodrick7110 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Cause women have choices and men have responsibilities
[–]treesplease125 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Too much logic right there 😂
[–]october-ru5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As Dave Ramsay would say to this, “it’s part of the deal(marriage)”
[–]laptopdragon5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
or an ex-wife?
if she came from the trailer park, she can find her way back there. All we should be responsible for is maybe an uber fare.
Just because things didn't work out perfectly, why is a man forced to support her selfish lifestyle forever?
at some point, it's also gotta be proven that women MUST have children as part of their (possibly only) biological goals in life. They don't want YOUR kid, they need A kid. They don't care who the father is, and this has been true since forever.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Asking this question on the abortion Reddit gets you an immediate ban
[–]Hearty-Pancakes4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I believe that both parties should be able to give consent, but then again there are instances of rape where that's completely irrelevant
[–]-cunnilinguini4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Rape related abortions account for less than 0.5% of abortions.
https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
[–]carltonbanks953 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
0.6% of pregnancies happen from rape so I don't think it's fair to use outliers as a basis for an argument
[–]manta233 points4 points5 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
If a woman can have an abortion
because she simply doesn't want the child,
why can a man not simply do to the woman
what she does to the child?
Disclaimer:
Don't do this at home
or anywhere else
We are the gender
with mental health
Mental health issues women.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Incomparable. The real question is if the woman is allowed to opt out being a mother. Then a man should be able to opt out of being a father.
Similarly if a woman is forced to become a mother. Then a man should also be forced to become a father. And f he declines then child support is only fair starting from the day of contraception.
[–]Sibmj7-1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Opening your legs and deliberately not using safe methods and choosing to have sex with a man you barely see a future with isn't precisely "being forced"
[–]geoffersonstarship0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Spreading a women’s legs and deliberately not using safe methods while deciding to ejaculate in her and choosing to have sex with a woman you barely see a future with isn’t precisely “being forced” to be a father that has to pay child support
[–]Mythicalsky2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Getting a vasectomy was the best decision I ever made. 100% protection from that racket.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men pay the majority of taxes in every age group. So long as single mothers receive welfare all men are paying child support regardless.
[–]CrumbledCookieDreams1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Everyone should be happy about abortion becoming illegal then. They keep the sucky kids. Everyone else keeps paying. No-one wins.
[–]U-941 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Everybody needs to hop into a time machine back about 250 years where you had 14 kids and half of them died. Every year or so, you spent a weekend burying one. Then your wife dies. So you marry the sister. Constant drudgery and sorrow all around. Every sperm was not sacred.
[–]ksoviero1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've been told it's because "he consented to the child support payments the moment he stuck his dick in"
[–]Papalopicus1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I just find it so goofy with this argument, like take one topic then make it about yourself. Like?? Yall gotta think sometimes
[–]Papalopicus1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ah yes this comment is about spelling
[–]TickPocket1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is why I, ////a hardcore feminist////, strongly believe that financial abortion for men should exist in all places where medical abortion is safe, legal, unobstructed, uncontested, and free to obtain.
Women, in places where they have adequate human rights which respect their right to bodily autonomy (and acknowledge that no human has the right to live by using another human’s body to survive without their consent) are effectively allowed to choose whether or not they become a parent (a mother) once a pregnancy has occurred. Men, impending fathers, don’t have that choice. In places where women are not given the choice then obviously men should not have that choice either, but the most egalitarian thing to do would be to allow men to sign OUT of pregnancy within the same timeframe that a woman can abort, provided he notifies her of his decision and she acknowledges there is a pregnancy that belongs to him to begin with.
It would be a tricky system to manage but I think it would be well worth it to allow men the option to withdraw from the rights and responsibilities of parenthood, as long as the woman still has the time and social/medical freedom to make HER decision as well.
[–]ricktr0ll1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well one option there is no fucking baby. The other option it’s born. Making a baby requires two people regardless of how little the man wants to be in it’s life. Some men do sign their rights away but those are usually cowards.
[–]GutheartPrombox1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
r/selfawarewolves
[–]defiance2110 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
God damn right!
Make abortion legal so no woman has to be forced to carry a child that both parents don’t want. It would definitely reduce the number of fathers (and sometimes mothers) having to pay child support.
[–]E-roticWarrior0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
BOOM ON THAT!
[–]NH_Lion120 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hm....
It's pretty shitty to leave her on her own with the kid, but if he doesn't have to pay for the kid, that should be factored into whether or not she wants to keep it. And it's not like she's not partially at fault for getting pregnant (excluding rape, stupid shit with condoms etc.).
Almost no man would ever pay it in that case, though.
not true. Most men would pay it but they would do their best to make it conditional on being an active parent in the child's life. Although we aren't making that a condition in this thread that is what most men would want.
[–]voidspectator0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have my reservations on this to be honest. There is a big difference in men and women biologically speaking. A women has to endure 9 months of pregnancy why we men don't have to. It's easy for us to make babies since we are the raw material for the factory which are women lol. Just because we tell ourselves that we go on our own way, doesn't mean we lose compassion and empathy for others.
[–]qantuum0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I know of a chick who did not ask for financial support from ex-husband when she divorced. She is proud that she held on by herself (also with state help I guess). I wonder what's wrong with her :p
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What was the AOC tweet he was replying to?
[–]amitoughenouss0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Am I allowed to agree with this while simultaneously being a woman?
[–]n0cternel0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This will be reversed one day...you're right it doesn't make sense if abortion is legal. At least within a certain time frame.
[–]HarryDyckenhaand0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Man Abortion = Not supporting financially.
We should have that exact same option, if they want that privilege back, they'll have to agree that they are on their own if we dont want kids.
[–]PhireFoenix0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
i asked this on /r/NoStupidQuestions
[–]qloudx0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All depends on context of course!
[–]rageth0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well in 2 years I’m finally free of the obligation. I could have paid a house off with what it cost me. Didn’t have any say in the matter.
[–]Anthony_plays010 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wow that is very enlightening
[–]TritonHL0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s like people never heard of safe sex. To say accidents happen is a bit much. Dropping your phone is a accident. Tripping over something is an accident, but for two people to decide to not use protection and call it an accident? I call bullshit on that. Then be able to abort it for FREE? Nah motherfuckers you guys gotta pay up. You guys made all of these choices so deal with them.
Yeah condoms break sometimes, but there’s more options to use than just condoms that can be used in conjunction so I don’t wanna hear it.
I’m pro-choice because I’m not gonna tell you what you can or cannot do, because I’m just some jackoff like everyone else. You’re gonna abort? Ok go ahead, I’m not gonna live with that decision. Same if you decide to keep it. But you need to take responsibility no matter what you pick, not the gov.
This is about two consenting adults though. For rape victims and all that then I agree they should have the help of the government and have access to everything they need such as abortion.
[–]ViSosnowska0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Uh because he made the child?
[–]RussianTrollToll-1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men should have the legal right to terminate a “cluster of cells” in the woman’s body if it’s his DNA.
I don’t support abortion but I think this idea is interesting. The males are sure getting the short end of the stick in recent legislation regarding offspring.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[+][deleted] 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]troubleddreamer1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
that’s what my mother did when I was given to my step dad
And I was given up at age 13
You can sign away full parental rights at anytime and not have to worry about a kid.
Someone doesn’t know how the law operates.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]keltsbeard11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This. My sister give birth to at least three kids by different fathers, and she has no custody/contact/control over any of them. Was one hell of a financial cost, but at least the two boys are seeing how the world works. I have no idea where their sister is, or how she's doing.
A 'mother' can damn sure drop out of a kid's life.
[–]White_Mlungu_Capital7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
otion that women are saints when it comes to child bearing? It definitely ain’
otion that women are saints when it comes to child bearing?
It definitely ain’
Until police come arrest you for not paying child support.
[+]Salvatore_opressor-11 points-10 points-9 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Omission you moron! Do not confuse lifestyle with omission and irresponsibility! Because when it was time to fuck it was good, right? Now after the child is born guilty, it is only with the woman. Idiot! No one child is to blame for the shit that THE PARENTS HAVE.
[–]ITooHaveThumbs10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
This is incoherent. I literally have no idea what you are trying to say. And my reading comprehension is in the top .1 percentile.
[–]Mojorizen24 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Did my best.
——Omission you moron! Do not confuse lifestyle with omission and irresponsibility!
Interpretation: Being an absentee father is not a lifestyle, it is just irresponsibility.
——Because when it was time to fuck it was good, right? Now after the child is born guilty, it is only with the woman. Idiot!
Interpretation: If you participate in sex, you should accept having a child as a possible outcome of it. Idiot.
——No one child is to blame for the shit that THE PARENTS HAVE.
Interpretation: Children shouldn’t have to suffer because of the choices of their parents.
[–]ITooHaveThumbs3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Dang. That's actually pretty spot on. The original now makes sense through that interpretation.
Lol it's sad the post requires a 3rd party...when the original is ostensibly from a native English speaker
[–]Salvatore_opressor2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sorry about my english. If you prefer i can write in other language because i'm better in portuguese, spanish and italian. But i will try to rewrite my thought.
[+]schlatt9-8 points-7 points-6 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Because a woman not only has to carry that child inside of her for 9 months, but also has to give an extremely painful birth?
[–]ITooHaveThumbs16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
And it's not painful for a man to have to pay for a child he didn't want for 18 FREAKING YEARS?
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]ITooHaveThumbs15 points16 points17 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh I'm sure it's shitty for a woman to have to carry a baby to term and then raise it. That's why a woman needs to be responsible and use birth control, such as the pill, an IUD, a diaphragm, or refuse to have sex unless the man wears a condom (she can even carry them herself!) USE GOD DAMN BIRTH CONTROL IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET PREGNANT WOMEN.
***After all, you have way more options available to you than men.
And 'if' a baby arises despite using birth control, and 'if' the man doesn't want the baby, and 'if' the woman still wants to keep it... Then the man should be able to absolve himself of all legal rights and responsibilities to the child, just as women are demanding the right to legal and safe abortions.
[–]schlatt90 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree but you’re arguing the exact opposite. You have the mind of a squirrel.
[–]ITooHaveThumbs0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And how much of your formidable intellect did it take to concoct those two sentences that comprise your ad hominem argument?
[–]n0cternel1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, but the guy should be able to say he doesn't want to pay at least in first couple months, then she can decide NOT to have it for 8 more months and give the painful birth...isn't that fair? Otherwise the man literally has no choice. She can choose, so he can choose too. Otherwise no one gets to choose. Fair, right?
And a man has to pay 18 years of child support and faces a jail penalty if he cannot for a child he may not want. And he might have to pay even if he was imprisoned and not working.
[–]swansong1911 points12 points13 points 7 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
"He" conceived the child, eh? She didn't. He got her pregnant? She didn't get herself pregnant?
"By impregnating someone"? How about "by allowing yourself to be impregnated"?
Every word/phrase you use is designed to absolve the woman of any responsibility for becoming pregnant. It is something that is done to her...not something she allows to happen to her.
It's slanted and disingenuous at best.
[+][deleted] 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]swansong199 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
My point isn’t that women aren’t responsible for their children
And I never suggested you said they weren't responsible for their children. I said that the words you use are designed to absolve women of becoming pregnant. And now you seem to be, intentionally or not, twisting my words to make it seem like I claimed something I didn't.
If you read your words it's clear you seem to think that pregnancy is something men do to women and not something women play any role in.
[–]swansong195 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I like civil discussions.
For me the answer to the issue is adoption. I was adopted in the late 60s. Had my birth mother had the same ease of access to abortions...or had it not been as socially acceptable then as it is now...we wouldn't be having this civil conversation.
There was a time where I was nothing more than a clump of cells. At that time someone would have been perfectly ok "aborting" me because I wasn't a "person".
Well...I'm a person now and have had a pretty good life which I like to think has had a positive impact on many people over my 50+ years.
We've known for a very, very long time how babies are created. And we have developed a myriad of means by which to prevent pregnancy. If people don't want children then there is very little excuse for creating one by accident. But should that accident occur there are many couples/people that, for one reason or another, can't have a child of their own.
Own up to the responsibility...carry the kid to term and let someone else love and raise it.
Btw...I wouldn't condemn any woman that decide to abort a baby that posed a health risk to her...one created thru rape, incest...or a baby that would be born with serious health issues that would cause it to have a poor quality of life.
[–]CKS_Luke2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
That is an excellent point. Though I think that the person who has to birth the baby should choose. Thank you though.
[–]Chinchillin093 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Interesting civil conversation. Something came to my mind reading this, what happens when robotic incubators are a thing though? Who should choose by then?
[–]CKS_Luke0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Both parties I would assume. It is an awesome concept to think about.
[+]bryanboss09-24 points-23 points-22 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
if a man doesnt wanna have a child he should have a vasectomy
in fact all men should get a vasectomy until they’re ready to have a child
[–]ITooHaveThumbs16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If a woman doesn't want to have a baby, then she should get a tubal ligation. In fact all women should have their tubes tied until they're ready to have a baby.
[–]n0cternel2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What the fuck...I guess the term femnazi really does apply here
[+]ElMatador_33-46 points-45 points-44 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
Stupid logic. One is actually a human. The other isn’t alive yet.
[–]blackjackANDplates[S] 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
If a woman can have an abortion even if the father wants to keep the child then a man should be able to have the option to opt-out of paying child support for a fetus he morally "aborted". Or maybe a woman should pay "abortion support" to the father whose child she aborted.
[–]FeedMeMore2277853419 points20 points21 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Abortion support is a great EQUAL idea that will never see the light of day lol at least MGTOW bros can give u credit for a good idea
[–]TerminalSect3318 points19 points20 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed^ since the father has no say in abortions, he shouldn't owe a dime if some broad goes against his opinion and decides to keep the kid. Too many women end up screwing guys over for child support, After she sabotages the condom, etc. Or she uses an unsuspecting guy since her "clock is ticking" and she just wants a kid. It's not fair to the father or the child.
[–]bigotsnowflake7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
men should have children with somebody who also wants a child. a child isn't a commodity or an accessory that can be had without care or thought, if you are with someone who doesn't want a child, and you force them to have a child, your child is going to grow up in a torn up family and it's just not going to be good for the kid.
I think the way child support is set up at the moment is stupid, creating women who will have children for the sake of child support, ripping off loving dad's and taking custody away from them and into the hands of abusive mother's etc, so so think it should be reformed to be where I'd the woman got pregnant and the father from the start did not want the child, wanted nothing to do with the child, etc, he should not be forced to financially help with a decision she made on her own. however, parenting a child on your own is super hard, as it is a task designed for two people, so naturally monetary help is often important.
basically, communicate with your partner if you are to ever have one, about abortion, contraception, and if either of you want a child or not.
[–]ice_piercer14 points15 points16 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
yes but it's going to be alive, it's not like the baby is in a coma and you have to pull the plug as there is no chance of surviving - you are displaying typical wahmen thinking or should I say lack of thinking.
[–]swansong192 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. This is something I posted in this thread (and others) in response to this notion.
When does an apple tree become an apple tree? When it sprouts from the ground or when it bears fruit?
If you drop an egg off a roof it's technically not broken til it hits the ground...but even an idiot knows that barring any unforeseen circumstance it will break.
An apple tree won't produce fruit for the first several years of it's life but to deny it's an apple tree until it does requires a sort of mental gymnastics for which many people are not equipped.
No different than a fetus. If left to develop and barring any unforeseen circumstance it will become a fully formed human.
The fact this is so difficult for some would seem to show a willful type of ignorance designed to avoid personal responsibility.
[–]ViniVidiViciXXI9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Ummmm.... ok? Most women don't know they are pregnant until after there is a heartbeat or life.
Source: Married and have 2 kids.
[–]keltsbeard8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
https://americanpregnancy.org/while-pregnant/first-trimester/
Interesting. At 6 weeks it don't have a heart, yet at 4 weeks it's beating?
[–]keltsbeard13 points14 points15 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So a beating heart, is not a heart. Gotcha.
[–]ViniVidiViciXXI3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well put my friend.
[–]carltonbanks956 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
if it grows, it's alive. that has been true for plants, bacteria and even viruses, why can't you people accept facts?
if you drop an egg off a roof it's technically not broken til it hits the ground...but even an idiot knows that barring any unforeseen circumstance it will break.
After 6 weeks a fetus has a heart beat. What do you call it when a person purposely decides to stop the heart beat of another living creature?
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