FR: passing shit tests means being treated like shit?

RPAlternate42 · 2015-06-22T18:54:02+00:00

Please use paragraphs. I realize that these types of things are stream of consciousness posts, but it's hard to read one giant paragraph that should be 3 or 4.

To the point:

Simply put... you lost frame and then moved into everyone else's...and then stayed there

it was a non-sexual dig at my expense. I played it off

You didn't... read next to see why:

showed them the website on my phone proving I was right, and boasted even more.

"Playing it off" means not letting it bother you. You clearly let it bother you and it shows because you boasted. Congratulations, you won the most asinine argument of the night.

I told her the next day I was bothered by how I handled her attitude at the party.

"Honey, I dind't handle your shit test at the party last night as well as I should have...

I told her I will will not tolerate being made fun of or put down in front of others, but when she did it, I did not want to insult her back or put her in her place, out of respect - I did not want to make her lose face.

"... but I really wanted to insult you back but didn't because I'm reformed now."

She started to try to argue semantics and it led us into a larger conversation...

She started to try to argue semantics and it led us into a larger ~~conversation~~ argument... FTFY BTW, women really only know how to argue semantics as long as the semantics are their semantics.

She said that I talk myself up so much that someone needs to bring me down to earth.

Hamsterese: You are weak and ineffectual wearing the dressings of a stronger man and I need to make sure you know that I think that. Also you failed the test.

Maybe I have been doing to much A&A

No, but I think you A&A wrong; I get the feeling you A&A and then elaborate on it, which destroys its intent. A&A is supposed to be an intentional exaggeration to show the absurdity of a statement. If you dwell on it, you give weight to it maybe not being that absurd. In short... A&A gone wrong becomes defensive.

I can't remember the exact details but it was something like ME: "I did something great! and SHE "Yea, that's not likely.." type BS.

This reminds me of an old quote: "An empty cart rattles loudly," The man with least to talk about talks the most.

Additionally you are doing what BP guys do... they look for mother's congratulations from their wife by doing something and then saying "LOOK WHAT I DID AREN'T YOU SO PROUD OF ME!?"

In the parlance of /u/TrainingtheBrain 's recent tag line: Acta non Verba (deeds, not words.)

So I told her, Hey- you wanted examples from our last talk? here you go- comments like that from you do nothing for me, but make me want to be elsewhere.

Why do you keep trying to bring up the argument? Why do you keep dwelling. This is beta behavior; you keep trying to jump back into a fight with someone because you got some lucky hits in... even though the other fighter keeps beating you down until you run away.

her response was along the lines of "I can't believe you are being so sensitive. sheesh!"

I agree. You are acting like you've been in RP for 9 days... not 9 months.

...which makes me think i failed the shit test. I could't handle her testing me.

A foregone conclusion

...but on the other side of the coin I am thinking this was a good choice, because I am letting her know what behavior I will tolerate, and what I will not.

It clearly was not a good choice because it's been about 3 days and you are still on this one little thing.

How can we help?

There is more than A&A

You can be C/F (Cocky Funny), FtS (Flip the Script), E&I (Evade and Ignore), OR complete AM (Amused Mastery.) I don't think A&A is your strong suit... and based on your lack of frame, full on AM probably isn't going to come off as anything but arrogance. Really, with your lack of frame, especially in front of others, anything beyond E&I or simply changing the subject and moving on is going to end more poorly than you expect.

There is right... and then there is dead-right

Sure, you can be right about the stupid thing no one really cares about. But you will end up being dead-right about it; you don't need to go as far as proving tigers will eat you if you jump in the pen... you'd be right... but you be dead... right.

I can speak from experience with this. Many "nice guys" try to prove their worth with intellect rather than simply not caring. Remember, you need to be training yourself to be the alpha, and the alpha doesn't care what the commoners think. He is in his own reality (frame) and no amount of rocks will break his armor-clad windows.

My impressions

I think you felt cornered because she shit-tested you in front of others. You felt confident from RP (for 9 months?) but realized quickly that you were not as well-equipped as you thought, you were backed into a corner and in the panic, reverted to old ways instead of applying the training.

You remind me of guys that say, "I do BJJ and I won some tournaments." Meanwhile they won White belt novice level fights, 9 months ago and are still a white belt. Then when I spar with them, they immediately revert to a guy who has no training; They don't keep a defensive frame for control, they give up arms and weaken their base, and they end up getting swept and arm barred, or triangle choked, or any other manner of submission in a matter of seconds. Sometimes I simply just play with them so they can demonstrate to themselves how little they actually know.

These guys boast about stuff they want to do... but their cart is empty... so it rattles loudly.

You made an attempt to A&A, it came off as defensive, you reinforced that view of you by boasting and then you carried the argument home and let it fester for 2 days, before restarting it again.

You are letting your (false) beta pride jump ahead of you.

Solutions

stop arguing. full stop.
when in doubt, evade and ignore. It may feel weak, but you are actually saying by moving on and disregarding the statement is, "Your statement was ridiculous and I'm disregarding it and moving on to more important matters."
Stop boasting: Acta non Verba
Stop looking for validation for the things you do. If you do them and she notices and says "I like it" or "that's neat" or whatever... accept the compliment, thank her for it, and move on. If she never notices or does and says nothing, then move on. This is known as OI (Outcome Independence.) You dind't do the neat thing for her... you did it because it needed to be done, or you did it for you, so if you did a good job, and you know it, that's all that matters.
I can't stress this enough: Stop moving in to her frame. When you do, you demonstrate that you are more invested than she is... and the least invested party holds the power.

Questions for yourself

Have you done any reading? You sound like you need NMMNG.
Do you have a hobby (hobbies?) This is for your time to spend with you.
Can you build something? This takes time and effort not spent thinking about her.
Are you lifting? A strong body demonstrates a strong character. We lift so that we look like we think we should look (our idea of what an Alpha male looks like.) If you think you do... then you are wrong because you are complacent.

theultmatecad · 2015-06-22T19:04:41+00:00

I would have loved to dress her down at the party. Gives her other friends the tingles.

Also..you dont have to prove shit like showing off the website.

Dig in deeper here. You still taking the wife way too serious.

taon4r5 · 2015-06-22T19:48:19+00:00

I come away from reading this thinking that a weak A&A makes you look more ridiculous than a strong shutting-the-fuck-up. She tries to bait you by poking a hole in your I AM THE AWESOME HUSBAND balloon, and you keep taking the bait, thinking that you win by proving her wrong.

I'm reminded of that old (from the BP school) line: Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? Really, do you want to show off how goddamned smart and clever you are for some reason, or would you be better of shutting the fuck up and getting on with what actually matters?

For all we know, she tells her friends, "Look how easily I can get him riled up... watch this.... Hey honey! Hey my full-of-his-own-shit hubby! Two and two is five! ... watch this." And you run over, pull out a calculator and angrily show everyone how it's not, then puff and fume about how she's so terrible. Stop taking the bait.

Your responses are giving validation to her shit-tests, not deflecting, avoiding, squashing, or nullifying them. You're making it fun for her to pick on you.

ghrelly · 2015-06-22T18:32:11+00:00

I told her the next day I was bothered by how I handled her attitude at the party. I told her I will will not tolerate being made fun of or put down in front of others, but when she did it, I did not want to insult her back or put her in her place, out of respect - I did not want to make her lose face.

"I can't believe you are being so sensitive. sheesh!"

You did fail the shit test. You failed it by explicitly giving validity to her attitude towards you. Anyone who explicitly demands respect does so out of insecurity.

The thing you have to understand is that you don't choose whether to fail or pass shit tests. You choose to adopt an attitude that will either make you pass or fail shit tests.

With your current attitude, and saying what you said, you are basically implying "I need you to stop making fun of me because I care about how I look to those other people", which sound SUPER insecure.

Instead, if your attitude towards those other people is "If you like me, we can be friends, if you don't, get the fuck out of my life", a.k.a giving a fuck more about what YOU think of those other people than what they thing of you, your would have interpreted those stabs at you as just some 3 year old kid saying something like "your a poopy pants.

And you would have come back with something like "That is because I AM great", and thus passed the shit test, because you are showing that the worst possible outcome, like the other couples thinking you are a pompous ass and not wanting to be friends with you, won't affect you a single bit. You are in full control of the situation at that point.

Mildly_Sociopathic · 2015-06-22T18:52:59+00:00

People will treat you like shit as long as you let them. Tell her to fuck off next time she treats you badly (not necessarily in with those words)

whinemoreplease · 2015-06-22T19:45:26+00:00

While she seems like a cunt, you're actually not standing up for yourself.

She's being a cunt. So what? What are you gonna do about it? It doesn't seem like you're doing shit but talking. It doesn't sound like you're gonna do shit about it besides talk.

Sepean · 2015-06-23T06:46:37+00:00

You have to rethink your approach to social interaction.

Your frame is very weak. You care way too much about what other people think, and that is the opposite of a strong frame. The simple fact is that people respond much better to confidence and IDGAF attitude than you mentioning any actual accomplishments you made. Boasting gives the impression that your care what other people think of you, and that is way less cool than anything you ever did. I'm not saying "style over substance"; but you can easily negate any points you might get for substance by having a bad style.

And stop trying to be right so hard. That only gives you "mr. encyclopedia" points, and you're trading a lot of alpha points for it. Is that what you want? Discussions are social interactions; you win them by how you handle them, and being factually right is only a small part of that.

If people only hear about a third of the cool stuff you did, if that was delivered as part of natural conversation where they ask about it and are actually interested, you will be far better off.

But this is just the rational description. You would probably know this already from the annoying boasters and bright nerds you've met in your life, if it wasn't for your weak confidence. You have a bad need for validation. You want people to go "you're so cool" and "you're right" so bad. That's what you need to work on.

Necroptotic · 2015-06-22T18:17:28+00:00

Stop seeking validation from others.

bogeyd6 · 2015-06-22T19:10:45+00:00

She started to try to argue semantics and it led us into a larger conversation about How I expect the woman in my life to build me up- not tear me down.

Negotiating respect, failed.

ME: "I did something great! and SHE "Yea, that's not likely.." type BS.

Actions, not words. No point in even mentioning it or bragging about it. If you want rewards from her (BP) then do something she can notice, not be told to notice.

I told her the next day I was bothered by how I handled her attitude at the party. I told her I will will not tolerate being made fun of or put down in front of others, but when she did it, I did not want to insult her back or put her in her place, out of respect - I did not want to make her lose face.

This runs a very fine line for me. I made that a boundary. We do not fight in front of other people, or disagree, but we may do so in private. Quite honestly from the scant details I am picking up that this made you majorly butthurt. That is very blue pill. You cannot take any word a woman says seriously. You should have A&A'ed, D&A'ed, AM'ed your ass off. You basically got shit tested by several females at once and failed quite miserably. Worse, you failed another woman's shit test in front of your woman. Thats really horrible. Why should she bother respecting you? Why in the hell did you get your phone out to prove this? This is super double beta. You A&A your ass out of it and change the subject in between. Throw out some jokes of your own. After a few more of these incidents they will stop on their own when handled correctly. If you keep failing, they will amplify.

her response was along the lines of "I can't believe you are being so sensitive. sheesh!"

I kind of agree that you are being a beta about all this. Yep you failed, and your response to that should have been amused mastery. Quit treating her like an adult and see her as the most responsible teenager that she is.

...but on the other side of the coin I am thinking this was a good choice, because I am letting her know what behavior I will tolerate, and what I will not.

You need to read NMMNG again. Especially the part where he speaks of boundaries. Setting boundaries while being a butthurt beta means nothing. You set your boundaries before incidents happen not in the aftermath. If your hamster gets the better of you and you persist in the matter. You set the boundary and when she starts in, you tell her you are not discussing and then leave the conversation. Be stoic and shut the fuck up. After all her bitching and ranting and blah blah she will calm down herself and come back to you.

The more and more I look at my wife, I see that she is a way too eager first officer. Always trying to captain up at every opportunity. I do not expect the shit tests to ever stop, because she is very demanding in my leadership. My little slips have big consequences. Your wife kind of sounds like mine. Keep chugging along, ask for help from MRP when you need it, and lift. Read and lift. Lift and Read. And so.

BluepillProfessor · 2015-06-24T04:56:07+00:00

You may as well ask your woman to stop breathing. How about YOU try breathing instead?

Deep in. Deep out. There, we all feel better.

Step in close: SHIT TESTS ARE FOREPLAY DUMBASS!!! Stop trying to change a snake into a sows ass. You have a snake (woman) and this is what they do.

my wife snickered some dig about never doubting that I will always THINK I am great, or something like that.

Yes...THIS is what they do. No fucking shit. Time for another David Dieda

“The most erotic moment for a woman is feeling that you are Shiva, the divine masculine: imperturbable, totally loving, fully present, and all-pervading. She cannot move you, because you already are what you are, with or without her. She cannot scare you away, because you already penetrate her in fearless love, pervading her heart and body. She cannot distract you, because your one-pointed commitment to truth will not bend to her wiles. Feeling this hugeness of love and freedom in you, she can trust you, utterly, and surrender her testing in celebration of love. Until she wants to feel you as Shiva again. And then the testing will begin anew.

In fact, it is precisely when you are most Shiva-like that she will most test you. Perhaps you have been working toward some financial goal, and finally you have succeeded. After months or years of effort, you have creatively earned a large amount of money. You feel happy, full, and successful. You feel great. You come home to your woman and want to share the news with her. "I just made a million dollars today." "That's nice." "That's nice!!?? You know how hard I've been working for this." "I know. It feels like I haven't seen you in months. Did you remember to pick up the milk on the way home?" "Oh, sorry" I forgot. But who cares? We could buy a dairy farm now?" "I asked you to pick up the milk three times this morning, and I put a note on your briefcase. How could you forget?" "I said I'm sorry. Look, I'll go get the damn milk..." Why is she being this way? Because she simply wants to deflate your success? No. She is challenging you because your success doesn't mean Shit to her, unless you are free and loving. And if you are free and loving, nothing she says can collapse you. She wants to feel you are uncollapsable, so she pokes you in your weak spot. Of course she knows how much this moment of success means to you. This is precisely why she is negating it. Not because she wants to hurt you. But because she wants to feel Shiva. She wants to feel your strength. She wants to feel that your happiness is not dependent on her response, nor on you making a million dollars. She wants to feel you are a superior man."

ME: "I did something great! and SHE "Yea, that's not likely.." type BS.

See the pattern? The answer is you failed the second, passed the first. You can NUKE a shit test like this, especially in a public setting (do it privately if she berets you in a public setting but don't let her do that) as you did with the first one.

The second one you attempted to nuke but got caught up in her emotions.

The central problem is you care what she thinks. Care less, talk less, more stoicism.

TLDR: She will always test, especially when you are most positive and most negative. It is what they do.

battery_licker · 2015-06-22T18:52:03+00:00

First, it's clear from her behavior that she doesn't yet respect you. She wouldn't want to bring you down if she looked up to you. It'll take time to fix that, but it will get better slowly if you continue to improve.

Second, you say that you "won't tolerate" her disrespect, but from your post it seems like you are tolerating it--in fact, you're rewarding her with arguments that she seems to enjoy quite a lot. You need to begin quickly punishing bad behavior. The default MRP punishment is to stop giving her any attention, which will probably work in this case (though you'll have to determine for yourself the most effective punishment). You're trying to punish her with words, which are actually rewarding rather than punishing her behavior.

angels_fan · 2015-06-22T19:05:00+00:00

I will will not tolerate being made fun of or put down in front of others

..... or, what?

That sentence needs to be finished with, "You can either choose to treat me with respect or find some other asshole to berate! But it won't be me. Do it again and you're out on your ass!"

Although you're probably not quite ready to go nuke on her, so I wouldn't even start demanding respect just yet.

TheRealMouseRat · 2015-06-22T20:45:27+00:00

From what I can understand from this you break your frame frequently with your wife. Also, your discussions about how you don't like how she is treating you may come off on her as being whiny. (yes, women see men who feel treated badly as disgusting) It also seems like you are trying to exhibit alpha behavior, but your wife doesn't see you as that much of an alpha. That is what I could understand from her saying: "that I talk myself up soo much that someone needs to bring me down to earth."

My best advice would be to work on holding frame. Use "safer" ways of beating shit tests. Stop boasting or trying to be right all the time, be more laid back. Someone who has to boast or be right all the time, shows lack of confidence, which is one of the least attractive traits a man can have.

H_to_Tha_OV · 2015-06-22T22:26:21+00:00

Agree & amplify requires a sense of humor. Don't dish it if you can't take it.

ruse_of_metacarpi · 2015-06-23T20:27:51+00:00

comments like that from you do nothing for me, but make me want to be elsewhere.

Then motherfucker, be elsewhere

Title	FR: passing shit tests means being treated like shit?
Author	spexer
Upvotes	10
Comments	42
Date	June 22, 2015 6:01 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3aqh7v/fr_passing_shit_tests_means_being_treated_like/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/fr-passing-shit-tests-means-being-treated-like.201640 https://theredarchive.com/post/201640

Comments

To the point:

How can we help?

Solutions

Questions for yourself