Circumcision, can you explain this?

davidrexs · 2015-06-02T10:45:40+00:00

because I'm a woman, and I feel like I'm a little less than welcome.

You're very welcome here! This is a place for anybody to talk about issues that effect men. If you're taking an interest in circumcision then you're even more welcome.

I'm a Brit, and not many British men are put through circumcision at a young age. Its very predominantly for health. So perhaps this maybe why people are a little less than kind.

Actually around 30,000 a year here in the UK, most often for religious reasons over health reasons.

without a single ounce of consent of that child

That's the kicker.

Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this

A lot of us are. This is one of the many reasons that there is a Men's Rights Movement. Issues like this just aren't taken seriously. No form of ceremonial cutting of women is acceptable in the West (and rightly so) and yet those of us who feel very strongly that male babies should have the same right extended are mocked and told that it is no big deal.

I think part of the problem is that we'd have to accept that we as a society do some really awful things to men and boys, and we are nowhere near the point of acknowledging individual men as important and autonomous.

P.s In the future, I hope feminists and MRA's can work together, because we all face discrimination. Unless you're a millionaire of course.

Many people who call themselves feminists do work with the MRA. It's your actions and character that define you, not a label. And believe it or not, millionaires can also face problems. A rich male victim of domestic violence will still face the same roadblocks to finding help as a poor man. Money is not the beginning and end of happiness.

Ultramegasaurus · 2015-06-02T09:34:24+00:00

tl;dr - circumcision, why do so many people defend it?

Religious lunacy, general ignorance and coping with one own's circumcision.

girlwriteswhat · 2015-06-02T22:50:17+00:00

There are a few things standing in the way.

1) lots of men are circumcised. Not just in the US, not just in Jewish or Muslim cultures. In every culture that practices female genital mutilation, male genital mutilation is going to be even more common and normalized.

I read a website not long ago where women who'd undergone FGM speak out against the idea that they're damaged. I absolutely understand this. GM is permanent. It's usually done on children who then grow up having no comparison, no basis to judge what they've lost. And they don't want to feel like damaged goods. They don't want to feel handicapped.

My SO is circumcised, and he used to get a little uncomfortable about my opposition to it. He's a man. He loves his penis. Of course he does. I love his penis. In our advocacy, sometimes we forget this--that these are actual people who can't substantively change their circumstances (yes, a man can reconstruct his foreskin, but he can't get the nerves back). That, perhaps more importantly, these are men, who already have a resistance (cultural or biological or both) to defining themselves as victims.

2) it's a decision made by parents. Kids generally love their parents. Admitting that your parents inflicted a serious, permanent injury on you (even in ignorance) is not easy. Admitting that you inflicted a serious, permanent injury on your kid (even in ignorance) is also not easy.

The easiest thing, psychologically, in both cases is to essentially say, "what I did, or what I had done to me, wasn't an injury at all. It was a benefit." This is even more pronounced when the circumcision was done in early infancy--"what monster would harm a helpless baby? Even in ignorance? Not my mom!" And because these men have nothing to compare their experience as circumcised men to, because it happened before they had the capacity for memory, they have no horrific (a la Ayaan Hirsi Ali) experience to think back to.

I have had cases where I've explained the procedure (much more than a little snip) and the degree of pain inflicted, and had men say, "OMG, I'm definitely going to have my sons done when they're babies, then, so they won't remember."

There is no telling these particular men that it's not only the pain that is the issue. That they've lost part of their sexual function. Sexual performance is already a HUGE insecurity with a lot of men. For some of them, leaving their sons intact is an admission of their own sexual and masculine inadequacy. Not damaging their sons is an admission that they're damaged themselves.

3) imagine being a doctor or a nurse. Imagine having performed hundreds, or thousands, of circumcisions. Would you be willing to say, "I have irreparably harmed thousands of children, and profited from doing so"? Again, the easiest thing, psychologically, is to refuse to see the harm and overstate the benefits.

novice_at_life · 2015-06-02T10:42:17+00:00

I just read through the other thread you were posting in when you came across the defensiveness. It is truly frustrating trying to talk to these people, I don't know why they are like that. I think it has to do with the medical experts shoving their rhetoric down our throats for so many years, that those of us who had this done just want to believe it's the right thing to do. I personally always felt it was, because it was done to me, and you hear about all the "benefits" from it.

It wasn't until the mother of my oldest son was pregnant that I ever had reason to question it. Even then it was only because she asked me how I felt about it, and when I said "of course", she responded with, "Why? Just because you had it done?" This exchange made me actually research the subject and I came to the conclusion that it was not a thing that needed to be done, and shouldn't be done.

I wasn't there for the birth and she ended up having him cut anyways, but then I got married and the two boys I had in my marriage were both spared this atrocity. You always hear the same arguments: it's cleaner, leads to fewer UTIs, reduces STD chances.. all of which have been debunked. I think what it comes down to at this point is that the medical field stands to lose billions in lost revenue annually if they stop doing this. Between the cost of the procedure itself plus the money they make selling the foreskins afterwards. That's why they are pushing so much harder now that they are seeing the number of infant boys being cut actually dropping.

Sorry, got into a bit of a rant there, but the answer to your question of "why aren't they angrier" is "I don't know".

Coffee--Pot · 2015-06-02T14:06:19+00:00

I'm actually enraged by it. Now at 29 more then ever. I miss what I never got to experience. I don't really blame my parents, but the society that normalized the practice.

Griever114 · 2015-06-02T12:24:55+00:00

You are very welcome here.

Honestly, MRA is just about equality. Regrettably, many of us think that while pushing for equality, many groups have splintered off/lobby'd and pushed their own agenda resulting in biased actions that really just bring back a form of segregation.

morerokk · 2015-06-02T12:53:59+00:00

I just like to take this moment to say the following:

No one is discriminated here. We welcome any and all people in this subreddit, and the fact that you're a woman will not make anyone think less of you. On the contrary, it's great to see that there are women here who are willing to participate in civil discussion, regardless of which side they're on.

Cantioy87 · 2015-06-02T12:48:31+00:00

I wish there was a clear cut answer to why people defend this, but I don't think there is. As others have mentioned, men perpetuate routine infant circumcision (RIC) because it was done to them. To argue against RIC after having gone through it yourself means you accept an important piece of your sexual organ has been taken away without an acceptable reason. That could be a crushing realization. One of my brothers has said he will cut his sons unless he's given scientific reason not to (I've shown him articles on scientific reason not to.). That's a disturbing logic: remove a piece of someone unless you're given reason not to.

Common attacks against RIC opposers are we subvert FGM opposition with our rhetoric and we are against circumcision in general (Intactivists argue that each person should do with their genitals as they please, once they're adults. Exceptions are given for medical necessity.). There are also personal attacks against those who share their stories or speak out. People defend RIC becuase it's what they know and what they've been told to believe in. I suspect their tendency to attack the integrity of others, rather than defend the science and ethics supporting RIC (because the science and ethics behind RIC are lacking or don't exist) because it's easier emotionally.

Then there are those who just don't know, the ignorant ones who say foreskin is gross and unclean, who use derogatory language to describe an intact penis or make light of male genital cutting . There are many of those. I can't explain them. There seems little chance of getting them to understand logic in any sense.

I'm speaking as an American. The above is what I've seen, heard and experienced.

Roddy0608 · 2015-06-02T19:30:09+00:00

Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this

Fear of being accused of whining.

xNOM · 2015-06-02T13:17:07+00:00

You wouldn't force a circumcision on a grown adult, why a child?

Because you can get away with it. The real reasons are not medical. The most common real reason nowadays: "want him to have a 'normal' looking penis"

Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this, why do they seem to be offended, like I find their penis wrong and not realise that a child shouldn't be hacked.

Google the word 'intactivist.' Also why just men? Women have sons, too.

aesopstortoise · 2015-06-02T15:46:44+00:00

Well posted. You may find these links to be of interest:

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2014/02/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-time-to-confront-the-double-standard/

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2012/05/when-bad-science-kills-or-how-to-spread-aids/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/female-genital-mutilation-cutting-anthropologist/389640/

Fetish_Goth · 2015-06-02T18:07:47+00:00

Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this

I am, but what am I supposed to do? My parents didn't know any better. Nothing will ever restore the lost nerve endings.

Rubychan11 · 2015-06-02T20:16:06+00:00

Female here... been with both cut and uncut men fairly recently. All the arguments for it are ridiculous, grasping for straws. The guy I'm with right now is uncut and he's soooo much more sensitive than like, say, my ex, who was cut. Selfishly, it's better for me that way, because him having a heightened sensitivity is a huge turn on.

One of my exes who was cut wasn't clean. Being cut doesn't automatically make you better at washing your junk. You still have to care about personal hygiene. To answer your question though, I think it's that cut men want it to be okay because it was done to them. They don't want to think something is wrong with them, that don't want to think about the fact that sex could be better if they hadn't been... because they can't change it now. So they want it to be okay.

zombieducklings · 2015-06-02T20:51:41+00:00

I have a serious issue with circumsion. I questioned my parents recently on the fact that I had no consent and they just laughed, saying of course I didn't because I was a baby. My father even recognizes that it causes less sensitivity, but he doesn't think it's a big deal and that it can help prevent STD's. But if you have unprotected sex, I don't think lacking a foreskin is going to do much to prevent you from getting one.

Matt_Why · 2015-06-03T00:31:12+00:00

Not welcome for being a woman?

So far from the truth. We actually desperately need women because we have a hard time as men getting people to take us seriously. If it weren't for youtubers Karen Straughan, Christina Hoff Summers, ShoeonHead(gamergate commentary), Mercedes Carrera, and The Tumblr Women against feminism movement, I wouldn't give much thought to Men's rights either. Sure there are more male activists, but it is the women who will make the real difference.

Why aren't men angry? Our anger just bites us in the butt every time, and people are scared of an angry man so it isn't ever productive. Governments in particular are very scared of a group of angry men, and will have no qualms putting mud on them and shutting them down. It is easy for society to kill an angry man, so showing anger is actually very dangerous.

The only tool we have is truth; Circumcision is a human rights violation. Truth will always wins in the end so all we have to do really is just keep on drumming the points in and trying to keep peoples minds open, because rational thought will eventually prevail even if it takes decades or centuries.

I do not hope that MRAs activists and feminists work together, as feminist ideology hold many problematic doctrines. i do hope that women's rights activists and Men's rights activists work together. But right now there are not any rights women don't have that men do have(I am constantly searching for one). There are problems women have like high sexual demand and biological constraints(pregnancy, menstruation, muscle weakness), but as far as government and society goes, women are treated with more respect than feminists give society credit for. Women have always been very powerful as a collective(I can go more into detail), and we hate that feminists deny that.

obe1kenobi · 2015-06-02T18:43:09+00:00

Right out of nursing school I got a job assisting a doctor with circumcisions, we did many everyday. I would say almost all parents who were getting their baby circumcised did so because the father was circumscribed.

Muslims, Jews and Catholics would usually claim it was for religious or traditional reasons. Most other people were still under the assumption that it "was cleaner" or it would help prevent health problems down the road but those people typically didn't do any research about circumcision, long term effects ect. Some would say they wanted their child to "look like daddy down there" as if it would give them some complex if they didn't.

I honestly think there is a lack of information out there and I think had these parents actually read something or been told by a doctor that there is no real medical need for circumcision maybe it would have changed some minds.

After doing that job I can say I am absolutely against circumcisions of infants, if you want to do it later in life for cosmetic reasons go ahead.

I also used to assist with vasectomies, if you guys have any questions about the circumcision procedure or vasectomies feel free to ask.

jmg83 · 2015-06-02T18:47:04+00:00

I'm a Brit, and not many British men are put through circumcision at a young age.

I'm one of the few. Guys in other countries can have the luxury of deluding themselves that their circumcised penises are normal. I've always felt different, even before I became aware of the functional problems. It got to a point where I'd get the condom on as quickly as possible so I don't have to answer any stupid questions about why my penis is circumcised, as if I did this to myself.

PM_ME_UR_PLANTS · 2015-06-02T19:20:06+00:00

Men have weaker in-group feelings than women do. When a man hears of other men having problems, he's more likely to think "that's a problem for that guy" instead of "that's a problem for us". This is part of why many issues for men persist while culture has been more willing to talk about women's issues upfront. Otherwise the whole men advocating for women and women advocating for men thing mentioned by another comment would lead to more balance.

lordtyp0 · 2015-06-02T20:55:02+00:00

From my experience: Most Americans defend it because it was done to them. As if to not defend it would be claiming there is something wrong with themselves.

stop_stalking_me · 2015-06-02T22:27:37+00:00

because I'm a woman, and I feel like I'm a little less than welcome.

Nonsense. You're more than welcome here. Everyone is welcome here. I love seeing women stand up for issues that men face. Some of the most notable MRAs are women.

can you explain why so many men defend the right of a parent having circumcision performed on their children, and why this doesn't enrage them?

I really don't know. It boggles my mind that these people can't see anything wrong with doing something like this to someone who can't consent to it.

Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this, why do they seem to be offended, like I find their penis wrong and not realise that a child shouldn't be hacked.

Believe me, many men are very angry about this. I'm intact and it makes me furious to see this disgusting procedure still being done. One of the problems men face when discussing this topic is that they get shut down. They get told to stop whining, STFU, it's not as bad as FGM, health benefits, etc. All bullshit.

Black_caped_man · 2015-06-02T23:16:21+00:00

It's late, you are probably asleep but I hope you come back and see this. You seem to have gotten a few different kinds of comments here, some harsher than others but I hope the overall experience was somewhat positive and educational.

I'm a strong opponent of infant circumcision, (I'm not to fond of adult circumcision either but I recognize that I have no say in that matter) and while I'm intact myself (Swede), for some reason the issue is close to my heart.

I have seen countless debates on the subject, both on forums and radio and tv, even in person. The topic is highly controversial because of a number of different reasons.

One, the cultural divide of ethics, morals, and sympathy. In America circumcision has been the norm for over half a century now, it's common, people accept it. It's more than that though, from the start there has been a propaganda movement for the procedure. At first it was a cure for masturbation and all the ills that came with that. Then it was for "hygienic" reasons which remain to this day. Now there are a bunch of other health reasons for it.

If you think about it it's pretty strange though, many millions of dollars are going into research to find benefits in cutting the genitals of baby boys. It's simply crazy, especially when it is was originally done to control sexuality. But I'll get to that later.

The morals and ethics of people depends greatly on their culture, most people in America see nothing wrong with cutting of the most sensitive part of baby boys penises. Just as many people in Africa see nothing wrong with cutting off the most sensitive part of girl's vaginas. In fact in both cultures there are many people who look forward to the day their child can have this done to them.

Isn't it funny how some people can find something incredibly barbaric and repugnant while others see it as some sort of joyous occasion. I'm exaggerating a little for dramatic effect but make no mistake, things like this do happen.

Now to another factor in the whole thing, men's suffering is rarely cared about. This is another issue in itself but I will leave you to keep that in mind when observing the world for a while. Think about things that happen to a man and consider how people would react if it was a woman instead. Do the same for women, how would people react if it was a man. There is a huge empathy gap between the sexes.

Now to the juicy part, "FGM is much worse than MGM".

There are so many misconceptions when it comes to this and pretty much the entire world is so ill informed about it. First of all FGM is divided into four different parts, all of them considered female genial mutilation and all equally illegal. This is quite important to notice and something problematic in and of itself.
FGM ranges from ceremonial pinpricks to the genital area to complete removal of all external parts and the sewing together of the entire wound.

Take a moment to consider this, a pinprick is put on similar ground as the complete amputation of the external genitalia. Now take a quick moment to consider the statement that FGM is completely different and so much worse than MGM. Don't stay for long though because we will return to that.

I urge you to read up on the different forms of FGM, sadly there is little to no reliable data concerning the prevalence of the different types. However from what I have been told the most common one is the removal of the clitoral hood and nothing else. This is of course when you consider worldwide figures. Anyways let's continue shall we.

Male circumcision only removes an "extra bit of skin".

There is so much wrong in that short sentence but that is what is being taught, even when I went to school the foreskin was just "a bit of skin that covers the glans". I remind you again that I live in Sweden where circumcision rates are extremely rare. This is where we come in to how little is actually known (or even cared) about male sexuality and sexual pleasure.

Only in 2007 was there a small study made to test the sensitivity of different parts of the penis, including the foreskin. What was found was that the foreskin was the most sensitive part of the penis, with the glans being the least sensitive. Earlier though it had been discovered that in the foreskin there is a multitude of specialized nerve endings. These are the kind of nerve endings you have in your lips and your fingertips, allowing you to feel things you can't even see with the naked eye. It was discovered that the foreskin contains the highest concentration of these nerves in the entire body.

This is the part that is removed in circumcision, and now I want you to go back to the statement that FGM is vastly different and much much worse than MGM. People become offended that the two are even compared. The foreskin should be glorified as the male clitoris, yet people see it as something less worthy than our appendix.

Then we have the religious people who claim it's their right, and by forbidding them to cut into the genitals of little boys we are oppressing them. I will not even go into that, since you are a Brit you should be able to find local examples of this.

I'm sorry this went on to be a bit of a rant I just needed to get this stuff out there.

The main reason why men don't do anything about this is because most of us are told that the foreskin is useless at best, and that there is no loss in removing it. When we question this we are told to stop being so whiny when FGM is so much worse. Most people just don't know the truth, the rest don't care.

I don't even dare speak about this issue to the people around me for fear that they will ridicule me, or simply not care, or bombard me with how I should care more about FGM.

Giorria_Dubh · 2015-06-02T23:26:10+00:00

You're welcome here :) Some of the most influential MRAs around are women. This doesn't mean you'll be treated with kid's gloves or anything (this isn't that kind of forum) but you have as much right to post here as anyone else.

I think men defend it because it was done to them and they see it as a normal thing akin to a woman getting their ear pierced. There's also alot of (questionable) medical opinion claiming that it has various wonderful benefits, from cleanliness to preventing aids transmission and people tend to ignore the risks involved and the issue that most of the proported benefits don't come into play until a person is of age anyhow (what infants need to be protected from STDs?).

I think you'll find that MRAs are mostly dead against it though, it's a commonly discussed issue here and pro-circ MRAs often complain that their viewpoint is being drowned out by the dominant anti-circ one.

InBaggingArea · 2015-06-02T12:20:26+00:00

Go home. We can't stand women.

Also, the word is "mutilated" not "cut".

Just kidding. Counterintuitively, most MRAs are women and most feminists are men. Life is just full of little surprises.

Macismyname · 2015-06-02T16:08:21+00:00

You're just as welcome as anyone. This place is about equality. We want fair treatment for everyone.
In addition to other posts here, I'd like to add I think for many guys part of it can be explained by the fact that they themselves were circumcised. Many were also raised in a society were circumcision is normal. Most never even consider it genital mutilation. I myself am circumcised and never thought it weird until I read a lot about it and did some research after hearing of the issue. I never thought it was wrong or in any way violating to do it to a child my entire life.

I mean, it happened to me and I don't even remember it, sex is still fun, my stuff all still works, how bad could it be?

That's the reason I think men aren't so pissed off about it. Thanks for coming to the sub and sharing your opinion.

7hunderpants · 2015-06-02T14:30:44+00:00

Its not 'circumcision' it is 'genital mutilation', if a medical procedure is required then it should be called medical penile reconstructive surgery.

If a man decides to have his foreskin removed as a adult then it is still genital mutilation.

Cantioy87 · 2015-06-02T20:50:47+00:00

The OP wanted to make a thread to discuss an issue she felt was important. The hostility of responses throughout the day show she was right to be weary while treading some subs.

She probably didn't care about the cut or intact status of sexual partners because that should not be one's concern--you are sleeping with someone, an act of love. If a guy is cut he shouldn't be discriminated against in the bedroom. If a guy is intact, he shouldn't be discriminated against in the bedroom.

The OP legitimately wanted to engage with posters, to gather insight for herself and others. It's a shame she was vilified for her support.

FluffyMelvin · 2015-06-02T17:12:21+00:00

I just want to say that you're always welcome here despite your gender. That's not how equality works.

In answer to your question people don't like change. "I was circumcised so I'd better snip my child" and parents usually transfer that conservative mindset to their child. I'm not 100% sure how it started, aside from the obvious religious aspect, but that's not really relevant.

MaestroLogical · 2015-06-03T07:53:49+00:00

I personally shy away from talking about this subject as consensus is often hard to come by, even here.

That said. I do want to say, Welcome aboard!

We may seem scary from the outside, but once you get to know us, and avoid the trolls, you'll fit right in. :-)

NotYoursToCut · 2015-06-04T19:51:45+00:00

"Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this"

^ Because they've been culturally programmed to be "tough" and proud of their penis, and admitting that something is wrong with their penis goes against those notions. Most American men just aren't willing to see themselves as victims.

comehitherhitler · 2015-06-02T21:14:42+00:00

This is a great example of why national distinction is still useful. You won't see unbiased research about male circumcision come out of America just as you won't see unbiased research about female circumcision come out of Egypt. You need places that have less of a stake in the question to get a scientifically sound answer.

TomwaIvory · 2015-06-02T23:01:39+00:00

I'm actually slightly anxious about posting here, because I'm a woman, and I feel like I'm a little less than welcome. Still, as a teacher I've read these articles and changed my classes to make my lessons balanced for both boys and girls.

Ignore the tripe, we have nothing against women here, many of us do however have something against Feminism due to the fact that is a bigoted hate movement no matter which way you look at it. That being said we do support some feminists (E.g. Christina Hoff Sommers) and tolerate others so long as they don't hold anti-male beliefs based on hatred.

I'm a Brit, and not many British men are put through circumcision at a young age. Its very predominantly for health. So perhaps this maybe why people are a little less than kind.

The health "benefits" are inconsequential at best and utter lies at worst. All the supposed benefits can be obtained with condoms, antibiotics (In the case of UTIs), and taking a shower.

However, please, MRA's, can you explain why so many men defend the right of a parent having circumcision performed on their children, and why this doesn't enrage them?

The same reasons for people who supported female genital mutilation:

They want to reduce masturbation (E.g. John Harvey Kellog)
They subscribe to a Religion (E.g. Muslim/Judaism)
They don't know how much they're harming the child.

As for why it's done in the western world but FGM is not: - Our society doesn't value the integrity of boys as much as the integrity of girls. Society also looks at boys/men as though they're broken which is a large part of the problem.

I have no qualms with circumcision, I couldn't care less if my partner was cut or not, the problem I have is having it done on a child who has no say. It is removing nerves, changing their future sex life and all, without a single ounce of consent of that child, who will be an adult.

It can lead to death, it's been shown it causes trauma, and it can result in the loss of the penis (Generally these people commit suicide). It is not a procedure worth supporting.

Why?! Why aren't men angrier about this, why do they seem to be offended, like I find their penis wrong and not realise that a child shouldn't be hacked.

It's hard for non-intact men to accept what their parents did to them, that what was done to them was unnecessary or downright harmful, and that they may have missed out on a natural body. Additionally you're already targeting a part of the male anatomy that is important to their identity which will make them defensive (Much like if you spoke about how women who didn't get FGM would be able to better please their men, they'd likely be upset and not want to believe it).

As for why men aren't angrier: What do men say about those of us who want our rights protected: We're whining, We hate women, We don't have any problems, We should take it like 'men' (It says a lot that "Taking it like a man" means suffering in silence and doing nothing to protect your rights). Feminism is a problem, it needs to go away permanently, it sweeps the issues men face under the rug and makes us all out to be monsters. The hatred and demonizing of men has to stop.

P.s In the future, I hope feminists and MRA's can work together, because we all face discrimination. Unless you're a millionaire of course.

And there it is. I do not support feminism, nor will I ever. You will not come in here with a "I support you on one issue! So now Feminism is good!" while mainstream feminism insults, attacks, and belittles men and boys and gets away with it. If you want to work with us you need to start by fixing your broken hate filled movement.

ExpendableOne · 2015-06-02T13:56:33+00:00

I'm actually slightly anxious about posting here, because I'm a woman, and I feel like I'm a little less than welcome.

This sub has been repeatedly clear on the fact that it entirely inclusive of both men and women, and not intended to be some kind of "boys club". Either you are choosing to read what you want to read into it, or you are clearly dismissing every attempt made by this community to be inclusive of everyone. If you feel you are not welcomed because you identify as a feminist, that is not the same as people judging you because you are a woman and it is entirely dishonest of you to try to paint it that way(or, paint yourself as some kind of victim of the evil menz in the men's rights movement).

I have no qualms with circumcision, I couldn't care less if my partner was cut or not,

Why wouldn't you care? On a personal level, why would you be indifferent to men not having those nerves and functionality that the foreskin provides? Don't you feel like you should care about men's physical integrity, even if they don't? Don't you think that, "what women care about" might also be a huge factor in what men end up doing or thinking?

Why aren't men angrier about this, why do they seem to be offended, like I find their penis wrong and not realise that a child shouldn't be hacked.

Yes, a lot of circumcised men get irrationally and emotionally defensive about their circumcision. They will defend circumcision because they feel a personal need to defend their own masculinity and virility, because they are insecure, because they don't like being told that the lost something that they never really understood/knew they lost.

tl;dr - circumcision, why do so many people defend it?

Because nobody really gives a shit about what happens to men and boys. They care about female circumcision because it happens to girls, but society really couldn't give a shit about what actually happens to men and boys. Feminism has always painted this picture of women as oppressed and men as their oppressors, but the reality is that men always had just as many issues to address as women, people just didn't really give a shit about those though because of the way society treats men as disposable(something which feminism still actively perpetuates). This is especially prevalent between men and women when you look at the way men and women interact on a personal, romantic and sexual level.

Title	Circumcision, can you explain this?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	45
Comments	121
Date	June 2, 2015 9:01 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3872ec/circumcision_can_you_explain_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/circumcision-can-you-explain-this.978676 https://theredarchive.com/post/978676

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