~ archived since 2018 ~

This is why I don't feel welcome here - the overwhelming misogyny and outright hatred towards women.

_Kita_

April 6, 2011

0 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://somethingfeministy.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/totally-not-misogyny/

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Post Information

Title	This is why I don't feel welcome here - the overwhelming misogyny and outright hatred towards women.
Author	_Kita_
Upvotes	0
Comments	132
Date	April 6, 2011 10:20 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/gk99h/this_is_why_i_dont_feel_welcome_here_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-is-why-i-dont-feel-welcome-here-the.1041297 https://theredarchive.com/post/1041297

Comments

[–]Kill_The_Rich 15 points16 points17 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]zarquon989 28 points29 points30 points 15 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]FreddyDeus 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]powerpiglet 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]_Kita_[S] -17 points-16 points-15 points 15 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]powerpiglet 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]_Kita_[S] -8 points-7 points-6 points 15 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]easterner7 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Kita_[S] -5 points-4 points-3 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]powerpiglet 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Kita_[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]XFDRaven 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]XFDRaven 6 points7 points8 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]_Kita_[S] -10 points-9 points-8 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]_Kita_-2 points 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]fondueguy 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fondueguy 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]_Kita_[S] -4 points-3 points-2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Quazz 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]_Kita_[S] -7 points-6 points-5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Quazz 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TBcasualty -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Kita_[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Archythearchivist -2 points-1 points0 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Celda 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I posted this on her blog as a comment, let's see if it gets approved.

In reality, what we have here is a breathtaking example of blatant misrepresentation bordering on lies.

That comment you see is in the context of a University of Florida study showing that women are the majority of perpetrators of dating violence and stalking. The quoted part is from a UF criminologist who is attempting to justify and excuse female violence, which is representative of how society attempts to downplay, justify, and excuse violence by women.

The poster then argues that perhaps, in reality, women are more violent because society allows them to be violent. To celebrate women’s violence, slap a ho.

Definitely a clear example of misogyny! Let’s ignore how university officials openly try to justify and excuse female violence, that’s definitely not misandry.

[–]Hamakua 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago* (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Faryshta 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kragshot 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Bob...it's funny you say that. On most feminist sites, women are encouraged to vent and release that anger and hurt at the hands of men. Furthermore, the (few) men who are allowed to post there are told to "man up" and accept that they are going to be the focus of that anger and to just deal with it, as women are entitled to their anger and their venting it is part of the process of them learning to empower themselves. (My wording)

In that case, why shouldn't we as men be entitled to vent our anger and hurt in what should be a male space that encourages men to learn to deal with our issues?

I could go to a large number of feminist websites and read about how they want to minimize the male population or castrate men and it's supposed to be okay, but one guy make a crack about "smacking a ho" and suddenly, we all are the worst thing in the world since James Hughes.

The fact that we have to censor ourselves because of reactions like Kita's smacks of double-standards and and demonstrates the hypocritical rationalization designed to diminish what we are doing here.

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do whatever you want. It's your choice. Don't act butthurt when people use that same shit to disenfranchise the movement. And don't act like you couldn't have done something to prevent it. Maybe you can start up an r/rantaboutbitches where everyone can go get their gripe on. And every minority group or discriminated group has to deal with the ever present spectre of the worst examples of their group being used to protray the whole. This sub does the same thing to women and feminism. I've seen shit cherry picked out of /feminsm blown out of proportion here too. So now that everyone knows everyone else does it too maybe people could make a more concerted effort to keep their discussion on point.

And nobody said this place was the worst thing since anything. I also specifically mentioned that it isn't everyone. That it's a certain segment of the users here.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MisandryIsPoop 2 points3 points4 points 15 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And the above is a perfect example of why banter, sarcasm, ironical, flippant, or off-hand comments should not be posted in MensRights or should be downvoted.

If we change what we say because of fear of how a feminist might react, we become their pawns.

Feminist misandrists will warp everything we say, anyway. It is a terrible idea to cater to them by censoring ourselves and censoring the truth.

There will always be the moderates and the radicals, and it's my opinion that the radicals simply dig harder to find the truth, even when it isn't pretty. Both serve their purpose.

Regardless, feminist misandrists will pick and choose the comments that are most seemingly offensive, and if they can't find any they will just make them up. We do ourselves better by ignoring what feminists think about us.

[–]mean0dean0 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MisandryIsPoop 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mean0dean0 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Eh... I see what you're saying, but I think you're making it too black/white--either we let freedom ring or we've lost? Not quite--we ALWAYS censor ourselves; modern life would simply be impossible if we didn't have the kindness and common decency not to spew insults at everyone we met.

However, I feel that the internet removes that personal, in-your-face kind of consequences to your actions; if you insult somebody in real life, you may get socially outcast, may get your ass beat, may even lose your job/girlfriend/home. Just ask Kramer how he feels about black people. But on the internet, through anonymity, people are free to be as wicked as their hearts desire.

It's a drug, i think, one we are all slowly getting addicted to. Look at the vicious attacks and absolute BILE people have been spilling over Rebecca Black--so a 13 year old sang a bad song badly into an Autotune mixer... where's the bad? She didn't sing about raping babies, or going steady with the hockey team, just a day of the week. So why are people sending a CHILD death threats? I'm sure some redditors on here have 13 year old siblings--would they be copacetic with hassling phone calls all night because Anon and /b/tards posted their family's personal information for everyone to see? And even worse, people used that information??? So really, that whole "parody" of South Park, where everybody gets together and turns Britney Spears into a ritual sacrifice like the Mayans did? Starting to not seem so out there... which is horrifying.

[–]MisandryIsPoop 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is a fact of humanity that how and why you say something appears to be more important than what you say. Though in truth, what you say should be the most important, with why you said it following closely, and how you said it being used only as an indication to decipher why you said it.

I say things that people like to label misogyny, because they are true. Lots of people don't like to hear the truth. So yes, there is some value, on some cases, to tame one's language. If you start off talking about some of the more radical notions of men's rights theory you may push more people away than if you start off with the more palatable, easily verifiable things. The male studies conference Wednesday did a great job at this, with loads and loads of data about exactly how men and boys are being left behind today.

Still, the radicals must exist in order to push the center. MRAs have been around for several decades, and have found that catering to the center leads only to failure.

You will find these three articles informative:

An argument for framing our message effectively: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/02/22/the-high-road/

Arguments for the radical: http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/04/18/be-extreme-and-unreasonable/ http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/01/27/should-men-tame-their-rhetoric/

Also relevant: http://www.avoiceformen.com/2011/01/29/everyone-in-the-mrm-should-watch-this-video/

[+][deleted] 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Hamakua 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -13 points-12 points-11 points 15 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]zarquon989 13 points14 points15 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo[M] 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kragshot 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hamakua 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -14 points-13 points-12 points 15 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Hamakua 5 points6 points7 points 15 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[+]felzix 15 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

You should include why you think being a feminist isn't the same as "fighting for equal rights for women". I'm fairly certain izzish doesn't know the difference since the ostensible purpose of feminism is indeed equal rights for men and women.

[–]easterner7 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Hamakua 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]kragshot1 point 15 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And now you resort to "shaming language" and putting words in my mouth. You just rolled snake-eyes on that one.

I openly support equal rights for men and women, regardless of color. There is nothing here that wants to deny women equality. The only concern of the MRM is to level the playing field for men in a very specific realm; a realm where women hold an unfair advantage.

I'm confident enough in my stance acknowledge the historical issues that feminism has addressed for the sake of women. But you obviously are not confident enough in yours to acknowledge the current issues that men are dealing with today.

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that women hold advantage over men's lives in those areas shows your true colors, and any petty insults and attempts to slander my masculinity are pointless and fruitless, as you are the one here who is harping on your privilege by expecting that such attacks would destabilize my position.

[–]ghebert001 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]aetheralloy 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]kloo2yoo[M] 10 points11 points12 points 15 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]aetheralloy 7 points8 points9 points 15 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]XFDRaven 12 points13 points14 points 15 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]aetheralloy 8 points9 points10 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]XFDRaven 3 points4 points5 points 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thetrollking 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 1 point2 points3 points 15 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah context matters. As it does for Roland3337's comments and activity. He's a r/mensrightslurker with a mail order bride and a distaste for "American Women" with their nagging and credit card/student loan debt and the indecency to not still weigh what they weighed when they were 21 (no mention if he's bothered to keep up his end of that physical bargain), and all that refusing him of the sexing, and all that 'baggage' (kids) that American women come with.

You may find nothing off about that, but in my personal estimation it sets off red flags for someone with a lot more issues with women (and more importantly women that don't follow the traditional 'wife' role) than most people. He may not actually ever 'slap a ho', but you'd be a fool to suggest he doesn't at least partly believe the sentiment behind that.

[–]thetrollking -1 points0 points1 point 15 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Huh? You sound like a woman.

I keep hearing this line of reasoning and really, it sounds like it is right out of a feminist or female centric dating site or magazine.

What about nagging, credit card/student loan debt, and obesity is supposed to be attractive????

How does having a foreign bride = mail order bride?

What is so bad about "traditional" 'wife' roles or seeking that in a marriage partner?

If anything hurts the MRM, in my estimation, it isn't the occasional use of the word bitch but this type of reasoning right here.

We should be about more choices and more liberty and freedom for men, not having men binded by female or feminist dictated social norms.

If that means that 90% of American men want to shun American women and date younger and hotter and culturally diverse women from over seas...then great. It doesn't mean we want to take away womens choice in career or housewife roles....there are plenty of men that would be happy to have either in a American flavor if it didn't come with all the bitching. Western women have claimed for longer than I have been alive that they don't need men and I have no intentino to force them to have us in our lives, they sure as shit shouldn't have the right to control what we do with our private lives though....whether it be IMBRA or porn.

You, my friend, should travel and date some foreign women. I have dated American and Foreign women and I can say that it isn't until you date a foreign woman that you notice how bad American women truly are.

It isn't because foreign women are docile and submissive or traditional or any of those other feminist bullshit claims. Quite the opposite in my experience. They simply lack the giant chip on their shoulder and teh victim mentality. One arab girl I dated had gotten her degree from a prestigious university by 19 and was working on a masters at 19 and is now working for the UN....I kinda wish I had married her, but alas...it wasn't in the cards. She had a few of the same annoying habits of western women, she was hot as all hell but still thought she was kinda fat for example but she was one of the most lovely women I have ever met. She wore the hijab, which you would think would make her really conservative and dumb but she wasn't...she watched porn and dated around a bit for example, and she was also taller than me and asked me out first. She was one of the few girls I actually got to know before hooking up and one of the best parts was simply talking with her...I have had similiar experiences with several foreign women of different shades...but anyways, you and others need to stop making assumptions about people based on one or two data points....or if you are going to continue doing it here please be original about it.

[–]ShakeyBobWillis 0 points1 point2 points 15 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What about nagging, credit card/student loan debt, and obesity is supposed to be attractive????

Nothing. The problem is his sweeping generalization. And it's not about 'obesity' it's (in his words) about not gaining a pound of weight from high school to your 40's (and of course not mentioning if he bothered to uphold his own body to the same high standards).

How does having a foreign bride = mail order bride?

It doesn't. When you add up all the specifics in an individual case it can be the same thing.

What is so bad about "traditional" 'wife' roles or seeking that in a marriage partner?

Nothing on it's own. However, 'traditional' can be quite frequently a euphemism for 'subservient'. Which, when you take it in the context of this particular individual, isn't a real stretch.

If that means that 90% of American men want to shun American women and date younger and hotter and culturally diverse women from over seas...then great

Starting to get off message here.

Western women have claimed for longer than I have been alive that they don't need men and I have no intentino to force them to have us in our lives, they sure as shit shouldn't have the right to control what we do with our private lives though....whether it be IMBRA or porn.

They have? All of them? No women in this country actually love men and feel they need their spouse in their lives? Tell me how all blacks are next. After that you can tell me how all Muslims are.

You, my friend, should travel and date some foreign women. I have dated American and Foreign women and I can say that it isn't until you date a foreign woman that you notice how bad American women truly are.

Done and done. There's crazy everywhere. There's sane everywhere.

It isn't because foreign women are docile and submissive or traditional or any of those other feminist bullshit claims.

Didn't say they were. I said this guy in particular went looking docile and submissive based on what he's presented of himself on Reddit to date. You keep making the mistake of thinking I'm making sweeping generalizations about every man that dates a foreign woman. I'm not in the slightest. I'm making a specific opinion about a specific person. A user who finds no other reason to be on Reddit that to lurk r/mensrights, and one who lauds that foreign women just ain't as lippy as those American gals. So basically, this guy got burned by a woman here, then went on to attribute the problems with that woman to be a problem with all American women, and ran away to find a nice girl that won't give him no sass. He makes it a big deal to point out how she has never once refused him sex...as if refusing or not being in the mood even one time is some sort of failing. He also makes it a big deal to point out his wife hasn't 'lied to him' ever...even about 'small things' like 'did you eat the last cinammon roll'. So basically some woman in his life previous to this lied to him and that's the grudge he's carrying over to the rest of women in this country..apparently a woman petty enough to lie about eating the last cinnamon roll too. But instead of maybe realizing he dated/married a crazy liar, it must just be because American girls be crazy bitches. Sorry, nothing this guy presents here points to someone who just happened to meet a lovely foreign woman and get married.

I have no idea why you went on a long rambling tangent about this arab girl you met. I'm glad you had a wonderful time. That does not surprise me, mainly because I'm fully aware that women all over the planet can be lovely creatures full of brains, intelligence, compassion, all while being 'hot as hell'. I'm not one simply dismissing large swaths of women because I dated one once and they hurt my mangina and now I'm holding a grudge.

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