What was she wearing?

Poperiarchy · 2014-07-19T19:35:13+00:00

Most of this myth is perpetuated by feminists trying to encourage as few rapes as possible from being reported. Cops do ask these kinds of "insensitive" questions during their investigation because they're trying to gather evidence needed to actually not waste everyone's time in court.

That includes everything you did, where you where, what you were drinking, who you sucked off in the bathroom stall twenty minutes prior, what type of clothing you were wearing, etc. They need to know the scene, as every minute of the crime is going to be replayed in court. Something you neglect to mention will be taken advantage of by the defense.

Yes, it does matter if you were dressed in jeans vs. dressed in a mini and no underwear. Jeans in this example would require effort to remove, which means more struggle, which changes the dynamic of the attack. Any of it could become relevant when trying to re-create the timeline of the evening, which is something they will have to do if they want to actually win in court.

This is also why so many feminists think that evidence should be tossed out in favor of hurt feels. Most offensive to those feels, of course, is the "victim blaming." It's still rape when you go to a party full of drunken frat boys dressed like a prostitute, but knowing the scene changes it dramatically from the far more dangerous for society "wild rapist hiding in the tall grass..." scenario.

A man mugged in an alley is treated no differently, because the investigators need to know more about the criminal. Knowing that the man was jumped for no apparent reason walking home from work is different than finding out he was sloppy drunk and waving a roll of $20s around at the bar just an hour prior.

PurpleViolettron · 2014-07-19T19:19:05+00:00

The main place I've heard talk of rape is my 69% female university and I've never heard it. Not even someone saying they'd heard someone actually say that. The only time I've actually heard those words was on this lovely documentary we were shown by a speaker during out four day introduction to college life thing before freshman year. And, well, I believe it was the lady behind the camera saying it trying to go "It really doesn't matter". That lady was ridiculous though. Most of her presentation was about alcohol negating (specifically female) consent. We all had a fun time asking her "What about if both people are drunk or the guy is drunk and the girl isn't?" Like, all of us. My incoming class was 67% female and after the first guy asked her that question and she never answered, every single question after that, from a guy or a girl, included something to the effect of, "And you never gave us an answer about male victims or situations where both people are drunk." It was really funny. She just could not understand the question. My friends and I enjoyed laughing at that memory for the rest of the year.

bouchu5413 · 2014-07-19T22:20:40+00:00

I was cornered and groped by a group of guys in a hallway when I was in high school (they were not students AFAIK). This was pre-hallway cameras and locked down schools.

One of the first questions the vice principal and school officer asked me the next day when questioning me for their report was "what were you wearing?" It happens and I was shocked by the question.

Thankfully my (very strict and prudish) mother was friends with the principal so he knew me personally and he spoke up and said "I saw her yesterday around school (which was true). She is always dressed appropriately."

danmurphey · 2014-07-19T19:17:49+00:00

Never heard it said to a rape victim, but I have heard it alluded to with regard to girls just walking past in the street.

BlueDoorFour · 2014-07-19T19:39:59+00:00

I have no citation on this (so please provide if you know of one) but I've been told that there was a time, a couple decades ago, when a rape case might be dismissed based on the victim's clothing. I find it hard to believe... but maybe it was true once.

Nowadays, though, the "what was she wearing?" argument is just a common tactic to paint common-sense personal safety advice as victim-blaming. People are advised not to dress a certain way, to watch their drinks, to avoid certain areas, to travel with friends, and so on in order to reduce their risk. This advice is then interpreted, fallaciously, as meaning "well if you didn't do x,y,z then it's obviously your fault!"

If the police ask this of a victim, it is certainly because it's relevant information to the story. Not to the rapist's intent, but to identification and getting corroboration from witnesses. You'd ask the same of a mugging victim, or when getting an alibi.

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2014-07-20T03:36:49+00:00

The claim that people excuse rape based on what the victim is wearing is a strawman argument. Feminists use treating it as something common to goad people in to defending something they've never done... so that they can claim it's a common sentiment. I've never heard it expressed by anyone, only variations on it defended by people after feminists have put forth the idea that it's common to believe a woman's outfit justifies raping her.

Grubnar · 2014-07-19T19:44:28+00:00

Nope.

The only thing I can think of is the "Just because I dress a certain way" sketch by Dave Chappelle.

BlueDoorFour · 2014-07-19T20:48:42+00:00

Never heard it.

It's used by lawyers against the victim. They want to win in court.

But I have never heard a normal human being ask the question.

2014-07-19T21:12:46+00:00

If someone thinks a rapist cares what their potential victim is wear, I feel bad for the stupidity. Rape is rarely random, it's nearly always someone they know. (and this person has probably seen them dressed in a variety of ways). If rape was dependent on what a woman wore, bars and clubs would be incredible hot beds for rape.

Karma9999 · 2014-07-19T23:29:46+00:00

I would imagine the question does get asked. From family, friends, probably the police, and definitely the media if they cover the story, after all a story is so dry without details... tossers that they are. If you mean "She got raped because she was wearing X, Y or Z", then no, I've never seen anything remotely like that.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-07-19T18:53:56+00:00

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TRPACC · 2014-07-19T19:50:15+00:00

I'll drop this here - its the meaning behind victim blaming

You will likely feel like blaming the victim. Why?

Study show that the entourage often blame the victims for what has happened. In fact, it seems that blaming the other is a protective function leading people to believe that the world is a safe a predictable place. To attribute the traumatic event to randomness or to society would cause too much insecurity, as it would mean that it could also happen to you. This can lead you to unconsciously deduct that it is rather the individual’s personality traits or his behaviours that are responsible for the trauma, and this can explain your likeliness to blame the victim.

You could also blame the individual for having or for not having done this or that in order to avoid the event. However, it is not fare to judge the actions of individual at the time of the event, because you are doing so with some information that the individual did not have at the time of these actions. Another factor to take into account is your actual emotional state, which is very different from the emotional state of the individual at the very moment he was living the event. Even if you know some details about the traumatic event, you did not experience it, you did not feel the intensity and the range of emotions. It is thus not fare to minimize the event and criticize the actions of the victim. It is important to keep in mind that the individual did what he could do in these circumstances.

It is very well possible that at one point you could blame the victim for the post-traumatic symptoms that also affect your daily life. It is not easy to see someone you love suffer. His suffering could make you feel helpless and even guilty, not knowing how to help him. His state could also make you feel angry. You might advise him, tell him what to do and feel like he is not making enough efforts to come out of this state. So, even with the best feelings at heart and the best of intentions, it is easy to understand how you could come to the point of blaming the victim. http://www.osiss.ca/docs/RecoveringfromaTrauma_EN.pdf

aussietoads · 2014-07-20T01:45:05+00:00

There is one legitimate reason why a victim might be asked what they were wearing, and that is simple identification. Often the only corroborating evidence to an alleged victims claim is 3rd party video recording, in which the faces of people are not always clearly identifiable but the clothing of the people often is. While this in itself may not be conclusive or vital evidence, it may still help police in their inquiries.

Arakin · 2014-07-20T02:31:18+00:00

EVEN IF this was asked, I want to know why rape is the only crime where 'victim blaming' is even considered a thing.

If you get mugged walking down the wrong street at night, someone you know will ask you, "Why the fuck were you walking down X street at 2AM?"

If you get defrauded of a bunch of money because a guy tells you he's the prince of Nigeria, someone will go, "He told you that and you believed it?"

If someone bigger than you punches you cause you were talking shit, someone's gonna say, "Why were you talking shit to a guy twice your size?"

OF COURSE the consequence is still wrong, but people act like you can't ask a SINGLE QUESTION of someone who was raped. You just have to listen, take their word as gospel, and go out and lynch the accused.

TRPACC · 2014-07-19T19:44:04+00:00

After slutwalk this place was flooded with " well if you dress like a slut, common sense blah blah blah" shit.

I'm glad the movement has moved on from that.

NWOslave · 2014-07-20T13:22:22+00:00

What was she wearing is a good question. Western women go to extreme lengths to signal they're in heat and are in desperate need of sex right now. Why deny reality? Men go to porn sights to be sexually aroused by watching women acting like they're in heat, there's no other reason. Women dress and act like animals in heat to sexually arouse men to signal that they are in desperate need of sex. This is the reality of dimorphic human sexuality.

busior · 2014-07-20T04:46:48+00:00

Well I only heard about one case of alleged rape. It was kind of strange and not very convincing to be honest. Met a girl - 22yo IIRC, she was kind of annoying. We were in my car and it was clear that she was horny as fuck and you could tell it was hard for her to resist. Literally she got so wetty wetty that you could feel it through her jeans. Eventually I got tired of courting her AKA foreplay etc. and I left her at her place and drove home.

4 or so days later she went to a club alone and got drunk as fuck and supposedly raped. Lol I heard about it in a very interesting way. I met with her for a casual hookup and she said she has something to tell me and as I was groping her etc. I noticed that her tits got substantially bigger. So I paused for a sec and tried to recall what can cause tits to get larger. Yup she was pregnant and said that she was raped. Sorry for being a rape denier but I just don't buy it. Even if consciously she didn't want it or claimed that she didn't want it, you could tell that back then her body was in getting some dick mode.

What was she wearing?

Comments

"You and I gotta work together (by which I mean you on my behalf), otherwise those guys (who don't share [trait/belief]) are going to take over (and do to me what I want to do to you)."

Title	What was she wearing?
Author	danmurphey
Upvotes	23
Comments	88
Date	July 19, 2014 6:53 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/2b5fqm/what-was-she-wearing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-was-she-wearing.1619400 https://theredarchive.com/post/1619400