Why so much hating on marriage?

Grayswan · 2012-09-16T19:49:39+00:00

The problem with marriage is divorce and divorce is like nuclear weapons: it works without ever being used.

sowhatisit · 2012-09-16T17:33:46+00:00

I think the hating on marriage is from the fact that its very likely to end in divorce (something like 50-51%). And even in the case where marriage doesn't end, it is believed by many men to be overall biased against men.

They would refer to:

males automatically being treated as abusers/in-the-wrong by authorities in domestic and child custody matters even though based on evidence women can be a significant percentage of the abusing party
females having more leeway in committing crimes/violence against and also falsely accusing men without often facing consequences
males having virtually no support structure by society or government if they find themselves in trouble in a marriage
an alimony system that allows a female to be able to divorce you and to continue to live with a raised standard of living which the males provided while they were married. They feel that once the marriage is over, the female is an independent human being capable of providing for herself, especially when the marriage was for a short period of time where the female wasn't hindered in any way (child birth, stay-at-home,etc.) from pursuing higher earnings.
(the last point assumed the male earned more than the woman. Which is often the case, sometimes due to perhaps the discrimination against women, sometimes due to the fact that men choose to work in jobs that are more dangerous, more exerting, require more hours, or simply by their nature are higher earning)

Basically, if I'm expected to sign up for something that I think is unfair, I'm likely to broadcast to others why I think its unfair.

Think of it from our perspective. We somewhat see every married man pretty much is playing a game of russian roulette (without the lethal consequences). You never know any second what will make your wife decide to divorce, and you know divorce is something you're going to be screwed over in more so than your wife. So why play that game of russian roulette.

eat_cress · 2012-09-16T21:00:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Gingor · 2012-09-16T22:31:21+00:00

Easy:

Marriage has (next to) no benefits, but carries potentially live-ruining risks.

Liverotto · 2012-09-16T22:57:05+00:00

Marriage = Male Financial Rape

2012-09-16T18:27:44+00:00

The risk in regards to marriage out weigh the positive aspects. There are still a people that have successful marriages and good on them, there are also people that make a profit gambling in Vegas...

TommyGun991 · 2012-09-16T20:59:09+00:00

My parents are divorced and most of married people I know are still together only because of religious beliefs. Older generations (before Boomers) had a stronger moral system and their only purpose in life wasn't to chase tail. I'm a member of the Y generation and I can see that the trust between the sexes is gone. I know many people who are in relationships ''but it's not like I plan to stay with him/her''. I also think the general attitude of our generation are personal freedom and individuality above all else. Marriage means nothing, you can get all of its benefits while avoiding the legal risk. I personally don't trust women and don't want someone to tell me what to do, that's why I'm not getting married.

Good women? Aged 21? Nah. They are openly saying they want to practice sexual freedom and want no obligations until they marry around 30. I categorically refuse to get involved with them, for reasons.

Scandimrthrwway · 2012-09-16T21:02:42+00:00

The risks in failing marriage are not as grand where I'm from. But nevertheless, I'm strongly against the institution.

Marriage is among the contracts, where an individual has no right for renegotiation or establishing one's own terms. Issues like gay marriage, polygamy, divorce etc. would be moot if marriage wasn't regulated by law at all. I think a church should decide who they want to bless and an individual should decide the terms. Not an external government.

Granted, it's good that an external entiry helps out with mitigating the social issues and some risks. Though I believe they cod be done differently. E.g. Explain why polygamy is hard for individuals and societies and why people should agree for a fair split in case of a divorce.

MartialWay · 2012-09-16T23:50:12+00:00

I'm obviously well versed with the dangers of marrying someone who will take advantage of you but why don't we all take the reddit anecdote and not "stick our dicks in crazy".

Because it is now so filled with perverse incentives and corrupted by greedy lawyers that even relatively normal women often have enough incentive to hammer you horribly.

There is also something called "Negotiating in the shadow of the law" that distorts the dynamics of modern marriage to an unhealthy degree. How do you have an equal relationship with someoen that can drop the hammer on you so horribly at any time? It's a Sword of Damocles.

My parents and my grandparents...

Grandpa's marriage is no longer on the table. If "Grandpa's Marriage" were still being offered, it would be a lot more popular.

...90% of my friends parents are still married and happily so

You have no way of knowing this. A lot of people are living lives of quiet desperation and most will NOT let on that their marriage is unhappy.

Marriage is a once great institution that once stabilized and sanctified familes - now it functions to de-stabilize them. We no longer have "marriage", only it's rotting corpse.

MartialWay · 2012-09-17T00:17:21+00:00

One of the major issues with marriage in America is that only women are eligible for divorce. Most male marriage obligations are rigorously enforced (under threat of debtor's prison!) whether you continue to be married or not, but none of the female ones are. This kind of brutal power imbalance naturally lends itself to unhealthy relationships.

misandry_doesnt_real · 2012-09-16T17:22:01+00:00

Think for example about driving your car. It is great and you probably enjoy it too but every time you take your car out you could be run over and killed. Is that something we should worry about every time we go out driving? No, of course not.

The last time I checked, there wasn't a 75% chance your car would crash every time you went out to drive with a 90% chance it wasn't your fault. As for a personal anecdote, the happiest and longest-lasting couple I know (my parents) are not married.

nigglereddit · 2012-09-16T21:07:07+00:00

There are good things about being married. It's good to have company, it's good to have support both financially and emotionally, and children are very, very good.

But there are bad things too. The simple fact is that for as long as you're married, your wife will have the upper hand and almost complete control over you whether you like it or not.

You will not a have a relationship of equals. That is legally and practically impossible. You will do exactly what she does both at work and at home, but you will receive no recognition of any kind for it. And the minute you don't do exactly what you are told, or make your wife angry, or fail to provide enough money, your wife can leave you, taking your children and condemning you to financial slavery.

And that is the BEST case scenario. If your break up is not to your wife's liking, you may find yourself a convicted sex offender, child abuser, or worse. You may never see your children again.

Now, I get that there will be men who read this and think it's hyperbole. I understand that, I really do. You may think that your woman would never do this, or that your relationship could never deteriorate that far.

If you feel that way, I ask you to do one thing for me. Next time you argue with your other half, even a relatively minor argument, perhaps over money or house work or whatever, I ask you to think about something. When your woman is like that, angry, amped up, bitter, either during or after your argument, imagine that she had the option to destroy you emotionally and financially, at absolutely no risk to herself and without laying a finger on you. Imagine that doing so would guarantee her a steady income, a secure place to live and a large slice of everything you own and earn whether she contributed to it or not. But most of all, you would be totally defeated and humiliated.

Are you really, really sure that she would never take that option, no matter how badly you'd fallen out?

nwz123 · 2012-09-16T17:35:38+00:00

Marriage is one thing if your wife has a good career. Children are another issue. You cannot risk it. If something goes wrong with the relationship your partner will very likely rip your children out of your life. You will likely be forced to pay anything from a large to unbelievably huge amount (over 100% of your pay) of child support. You can be jailed.

You may think you can make things work and avoid these problems. But one thing people miss is that your wife knows (to some extent at least) that if the relationship breaks down she will be fine. She has virtually no incentive to make things work. She knows that you are constantly at risk of being destroyed and that in effect she has all the power in the relationship. No one can be trusted not to abuse that level of power.

Remember that your wife will be encouraged to divorce you if things get even slightly rough. People will say "its not fair to your children to bring them up in an unhappy home." (of course all studies show that children do much better when their parents have intact, happy or not, marriages). In the event of a divorce people will tell her to "think of the children" and "take you to the cleaners."

Just think about if its worth risking your wife getting custody and leaving the state or country. You could be on the hook for over half your take home pay and never see your children. I cannot imagine how anyone can handle that level of horror.

mean0dean0 · 2012-09-16T19:14:39+00:00

Marriage has certain benefits, but those are generally of a social nature (appearance of maturity, of "fully adult" status, of normalcy). Financially, marriage is at best neutral, and at worst dangerous for men especially, because they do not have the same status as women in divorce proceedings; their assets are up for grabs, even if (or perhaps especially when) they are the primary wage earner. For the self-sacrificial role of being a caretaker, men are punished. The most sound financial option for a man would be to be a deadbeat (read: a housewife).

Dating is entirely different; you can keep your own finances for your personal use, can break relationship contracts verbally, and can ensure that your personal assets are not subject to a judicial auction block ten years down the road.

Cohabitation is not entirely different, although it is important never to share finances; if you are tasked with paying a rent or a bill payment using your own money, make sure that that bill is in your name. If you are suddenly bereft of your paying partner but you've still got six months left on the lease, you could potentially be stuck with two leases (if you are the one that has to leave) or have the whole bill dropped on you (if your partner skips out on her share). Having the bill/lease in your name if you are the primary payer means one less potential problem in separating both parties swiftly, and one less hassle if your partner is a vindictive asshole and decides to withhold payment or change the locks on what you thought was "your" apartment. Also, keeping your bills in your name will mean you don't have to share checking/savings acccounts, which you shouldn't do as a matter of course, to avoid said vindictive asshole draining your account or maxing out your credit card out of spite or for his/her own amusement.

brauhze · 2012-09-16T21:47:44+00:00

In a nutshell, here's what stops me:

The failure rate of marriages (divorce rate)
The abysmal situation men can find themselves in when a marriage fails (alimony, child support, child visitation)

For those reasons, I will never get married. Thankfully, I have been extremely blessed to find very long-term, happy relationships with women who have no need to be wedded. But if I couldn't... I'd rather be alone than roll the dice on marriage.

2012-09-16T22:32:20+00:00

Though I understand where the MGTOW ilk is coming from... I'm a far happier person, thanks to the relationship I have with my wife. Sure, sure, I'm sure that there are plenty of people who will spout statistics and whatnot...

But both her parents and my parents showed us each an incredibly healthy view of marriage. I'm truly not worried about my future... I'm excited about it.

Call me naive, but I like this married life, and the fact that I'm living dangerously. ;)

Il128 · 2012-09-17T03:16:52+00:00

Women spend 88 cents of every dollar earned. Why would a man want to marry?

OuiCrudites · 2012-09-16T18:34:03+00:00

A man is far more likely to get run over by his wife in divorce than he is likely to get hit in a major car accident.

Whisper · 2012-09-17T04:51:01+00:00

I'm obviously well versed with the dangers of marrying someone who will take advantage of you but why don't we all take the reddit anecdote and not "stick our dicks in crazy".

Blame the victim much?

My parents and my grandparents and 90% of my friends parents are still married and happily so.

Mistake anecdotes for statistics much?

While there are obvious risks to marriage, it works great for so many people. Think for example about driving your car. It is great and you probably enjoy it too but every time you take your car out you could be run over and killed.

Misunderstand the mathematical concept of an expected gain much?

Funcuz · 2012-09-17T05:55:51+00:00

Go ahead and get married but don't say you weren't warned .

Look , nobody goes into a marriage saying "I wonder when we'll divorce ?" as though it's a certainty . Everybody thinks it'll last forever and every day will be sunshine and roses . Okay , we all know that divorce is a possibility . That's not the issue by itself . The issue is that the way things are engineered right now , you , as a male , stand to gain absolutely nothing while risking losing virtually everything for the rest of your life .

Seriously , what exactly is it that you get out of marriage as a male ? Nothing really . I guess there are a few small tax breaks but that's about it .

You get no legal rights , that's for sure . I mean , married , not married ... if you're a father , you lose either way . The courts have seen to it that your status as a father is completely unaffected by your marital situation .
Your money and possessions ... well , all you need to do is live with somebody for about six months and depending on the jurisdiction , the government counts you as married anyway . So either way , she can still take pretty much everything if she wants to .

So basically marriage is a lot of money spent on securing absolutely nothing . You lose because the system is now set up to make sure that you do .

big_white1990 · 2012-09-17T08:19:48+00:00

Why do you need a marriage license to be with someone you love? Cant you just live together and start a family with someone you love without betting them half of your shit that you can do it?

Aaod · 2012-09-16T20:18:06+00:00

My parents and my grandparents and 90% of my friends parents are still married and happily so. Women were far different back then especially in your grandparents generation. Give me women of my grandmothers generation and I would be much more willing.

rightsbot · 2012-09-16T17:14:18+00:00

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mrcap · 2012-09-16T21:11:15+00:00

As Oscar Wilde once said: "bigamy is the practice of having one wife too many, same as monogamy".

I would never trust a woman to give her the time of day, let alone half of my income and assets for the rest of my life. My advice to men now - use women as you see fit, sleep with them, but never, ever live with or marry them.

You do not need a woman. Ever.

squall24 · 2012-09-16T21:13:20+00:00

Fuck you guys. I love being married.

Title	Why so much hating on marriage?
Author	whiteout69
Upvotes	22
Comments	74
Date	September 16, 2012 5:12 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/zz7c5/why_so_much_hating_on_marriage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-so-much-hating-on-marriage.1013394 https://theredarchive.com/post/1013394

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