Could many problems in contemporary dating stem from men failing to grasp how power dynamics have changed between the sexes?

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-12-29T00:39:32+00:00

Removed for low effort.

BecretAlbatross · 2021-12-29T00:35:45+00:00

I think women fail to understand that most men are biologically turned off by masculine women the same way women are turned off by feminine men. There's nothing to understand. Men just don't wanna commit to independent boss babes. It isn't fair and I agree its problematic but I feel it as well.

SylvestorTalone · 2021-12-28T23:45:20+00:00

We're just living in different worlds it seems.

All i have heard my entire life is girl power, how men are responsible for everything bad, and how masculinity is a toxic problem in need of correction.

But sure, maybe if we just double down on that everything will be fixed.

ChangeUsernameA · 2021-12-29T00:29:12+00:00

This is exactly my observation as well. I think this is definitely true. Men actually have to offer something to women now, make the woman's life better being in it rather than worse or neutral, but for all of history this wasn't the case and men could treat their wifes however bad they wanted because women were financially dependent on them and couldn't leave them. Since men have been used to that, they're struggling with dating now because they're conditioned with the belief that women should just be happy having a man in their life. Men today are in need to learn how to actually connect with women, how to actually truly like/love her for who she is and vice versa, because relationships aren't just an exchange of sex for money now, at least that's not what women want out of relationships, as we are now not financially dependent on men anymore.

briansteel420 · 2021-12-28T23:32:41+00:00

Some men definitely are. But what changes do you mean? Surely there are still a lot of toxic men out there in dating.

Just considering the dating power dynamics over time is fascinating. All over history, men have had the power and just over a few decades it completely flipped around, at least in western societies. For sure it's humiliating, but men should get over it, it's just basic biology.

El_Macab · 2021-12-28T23:40:56+00:00

Correct. Most men who are frustrated with the dating market are projecting their own lack of self worth and confidence. Before men only had to offer certain things in regard to providing for women but now since women can provide for themselves men need to find out what else they can bring to the table. Many men are struggling with this thus it results in them lashing out which isn’t exactly surprising. The Red Pill stuff claims to help men adjust but instead of giving them practical sensible advice it often comes in the form of vitriol towards women or feminism which often leaves a lot of men only more angry and bitter.

Same goes with women. If a particular woman say desires a man who makes more than her, she simply needs to accept the world is changing and that will significantly limit her options. It’s less about a conflict between men and women and more about certain men and women refusing to adjust to the new realities of the dating world since the sexual Revolution.

sarkington · 2021-12-29T00:18:25+00:00

Nah, they know. They don’t like not being the king anymore, but they know

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-12-28T23:39:26+00:00

It's more that they're socially inept and really don't know how women are, nor that women aren't a hive mind. It's not even that they live according to old narrative either. They live according to what they wrongly interpret. They have quite a black-and-white thinking. For example, if you tell them "looks matter", they'll think ONLY looks matter and that only the hottest men get girlfriends.

AquaChip · 2021-12-28T23:58:57+00:00

I would say it has more to do with their sense of entitlement and their inability to see women as nuanced people. There is a stark difference in mentality between men who don’t have trouble dating and men who have never had a healthy relationship.

MrZubar · 2021-12-29T00:02:16+00:00

I can tell you one reason that I'm disillusioned with dating is that the overwhelming amount of negative affirmation is ridiculous. It wrecks my mental health.

Because we're so interconnected through technology now, competition is a lot more fierce due to the numbers and comparative choices. That's not limited to dating apps. Social media and instant messaging has largely taken over our prospective communications. Also time is more valuable than ever because we have so many ways to preoccupy ourselves. It's just mathematically harder than when we spent more time outdoors with each other and only had to compete with people our dating options just met in real life.

Miserable_Yam4778 · 2021-12-29T00:07:35+00:00

A lot of men cling to the idea of being a provider when that's not really what has the best returns any longer. Having a steady paycheck isn't enough. She has to LIKE you, and while women have centuries of experience in being "likable" enough to be chosen, that's not something men have had to think about until very recently.

A lot of what fuels modern breakups and divorce is an unbalanced set of expectations. It's not "you're together and it's done" now, both sides are clinging to archaic ideas of commitment.

Slootando · 2021-12-29T00:09:18+00:00

If anything I would suggest the opposite, that a sizeable contingent of men are traumatized because they were raised to believe that women are strong and independent, their equals in every way except for superficial characteristics like sex organs.

Thus, they get caught off-guard that women actually do indeed want to defer to dominant men, for men to take the lead in courtship and relationships. Hence girls writing "I don't message first" to "looking for someone to take me out" in their dating profiles and their penchant for tall, muscular, rich, confident guys—dominance signals. Although girls will squirm and "reee" at the suggestion that they prefer male dominance (eww it sounds gross), even if some of them will admit to liking individual components like tall, muscular, rich, confident.

Greater sexual economic equality and modern social media only increased the female demand that men exhibit even more dominance signals. Not only do women tend to prefer educated men that make good money, they prefer men that make more money than them, have equal or more credential check-marks than them (i.e. hypergamy). Instead of acting sweet and kind, some of them will ramp up the attitude since a theoretical high-value man should be able to handle them at their worst and check their shit-tests and bitchiness if he wants a crack at their best. A 5'1" girl might think your middling 5'11" ass is too short for her since her Tinder matches are filled with 6'1"+ guys.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-12-29T00:25:37+00:00

They were raised to believe that they ought to be in charge of relationships and that women should defer to them

It's more the perception that the shift in power between the genders has outpaced the shift in responsibilities, so to speak. So women aren't expected to defer to men, which is a great thing. But a lot of men feel like they're still expected by society to TAKE charge in a relationship, obligation-wise. Bring home the bacon and keep the finances going, be the stoic emotional rock when things go wrong, be responsible for the repairs in the house, etc.

And above all I think the expectation that men should make the first move (where lack of skill gets too casually associated with lack of moral character) feels foreign in a modern context because it's so at odds with the notion of feminist equality and "masculine harm" reduction.

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throwawaythawne · 2021-12-29T00:14:58+00:00

Some of the problems could be attributed to that, yes. But the very fact that the power dynamics have changed so much in women's favor is a problem in and of itself.

upalse · 2021-12-29T00:47:54+00:00

Most people don't even know what markets are, how do you expect em to intuitively grasp concepts such as market consolidation, commodification etc?

TRP does help in this regard, a bit, but even their takes can be pretty baffling as their grasp of economics is stuck somewhere in 18th century.

For instance they misunderstand how social proof actually works. Brand value by reference is valuable to family owned chinese restaurant, but irrelevant to commodity market (fast food chain). As long you fit the commodified parameters.

I'd speculate because of the MRA group bias against critical theory (as in Adorno and Deleuze, not 3rd wave) which has a lot of insight on the topic.

odd_cloud · 2021-12-29T00:48:00+00:00

Do you have a living example of that? Or at least how do you imagine a concrete example? Like a man says to a woman "hello, I am jack, I earn 50 thousand, now bow before me"?

What makes me believe in certain aspects of trp is different from ideas about male/female roles.

Scrimmy_Bingus2 · 2021-12-28T23:52:09+00:00

They live according to an old narrative, and as a result fail to establish healthy relationships grounded in reality.

I fear the alternative to that conclusion would be many men realizing that they can never enter a healthy relationship and embracing the blackpill.

everythingelseisfull · 2021-12-29T00:41:08+00:00

Many women hit the club and party scene and are swamped with attention. Most of the men approaching them pretend to want relationships but don't. Many women struggle to accept that they just don't have the power to get what they really want- relationships. I suspect OP is one of these.

Title	Could many problems in contemporary dating stem from men failing to grasp how power dynamics have changed between the sexes?
Author	Bruhmuh
Upvotes	12
Comments	113
Date	December 28, 2021 11:25 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/rqstd3/could_many_problems_in_contemporary_dating_stem/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/could-many-problems-in-contemporary-dating-stem.1090179 https://theredarchive.com/post/1090179

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