Help me understand

autoNFA · 2014-03-17T06:24:58+00:00

Not necessarily. A lot of niceguys^tm aren't so much shy manipulative assholes as they are guys who literally think that their approach is the proper, decent way to do romance. I mean, it is totally wrongheaded, but they lack manipulative intent and think they're doing the right thing.

Point two: you're presupposing that TRP says "be an asshole". I think a better way to phrase it would be "if a substantial fraction of attractive women, through their actions, display positive reactions to certain behaviors, then it's a good idea to display those behaviors, even if jealous onlookers try to label you an 'asshole' for performing those behaviors that are clearly held in high regard."

"Asshole" is a subjective label.

spechick · 2014-03-17T05:39:06+00:00

What I don't understand is why do bluepillers think that former niceguys would be anything but assholes. Weren't they assholes the entire time?

I believe in asshole education and rehabilitation! Every asshole deserves chance number two! ^{Oh god. no I have to stop with these terrible puns. Someone take this keyboard away from me}

some women, not all, are attracted to assholes.

I feel like this cliche comes up a lot.
I'm sure there are women who are attracted specifically to assholish behaviour, but in most cases I'd bet that it's the underlying confidence and in-their-element aura that attracts a woman.
The assholishness is just an unfortunate byproduct.... Or... confidence is an unexpected side affect of asshole-ism? ^{I admit, now I'm just trying to see how many different ways I can bastardize 'asshole' teehee} Regardless, it's a chicken and egg argument.

Now if you can be confident and comfortable in your own skin WITHOUT being an asshole, you're golden.

Some people think "Be confident" is non-advice, but I tend to disagree. Let's say you're not conventionally attractive. Do you think people would be more inclined to hang out with you if you:

Were passive, self-depreciating, and a general stick in the mud -OR-
Are Upbeat, goal-oriented and actively participate in conversation.

(upbeat isn't exactly the word I'm looking for, because optimism isn't exactly needed to be confident... Like... Zeal or charisma or something. I don't know the word I'm looking for. )

nicethingyoucanthave · 2014-03-17T15:43:53+00:00

TBP says: Don't be a niceguy™, niceguys are manipulative. Be a guy who's actually nice.

The reason I love this statement is that it really is typical useless blue pill advice. What's the difference between a guy who is nice, and a guy who is "actually" nice?

Nice Guy: "I helped her move. I drove her around when her car was broken. I'm standing here holding her purse while she shops. Am I doing something wrong here?"

Blue Pill: "The problem is that inside your head, your thoughts are wrong. You're guilty of thought crime!"

Nice Guy: "Oh shit! What should I be doing differently?"

Blue Pill: "No no, keep doing everything you've been doing. Help her with everything she needs help with. Keep all of that up. Good boy!"

sh1v · 2014-03-17T06:57:08+00:00

Being nice is not inherently bad. It's just bad when it's used as a veneer to cover up inexperience, fear, insecurity, and other unattractive flaws. I would add that all of those are neutral or even fetching traits in women -- which, along with the social acceptability of heaping scorn upon weak men, is why I don't expect them to understand the motives or hardships of the archetypal nice guy.

To really be nice, you have to be nice from a position of strength or parity. No one will ever criticize a woman for being weak in the face of a man, it will always be his fault or his loss. But as a man your frame must be that of being equal or superior to every woman you encounter. Otherwise, even your attempts at niceness will be used as further justification for their instinctive hatred of you.

Call a woman out on her shit, and the next time you praise her it will be a cherished gift. Compliment her incessantly and she'll begin to view you with scorn. But really, where do men go to learn to call women out on their shit? TRP, and TRP alone.

mudra311 · 2014-03-17T17:05:08+00:00

I'm a nice guy. I go out of my way to help random strangers, I pick up trash outside, I volunteer my time when I can, etc. But I also don't take shit from anyone, and some people would call me an asshole.

Actions speak louder than words, fellas. Be the guy who acts in the nice and not the one who just talks the talk.

rulenumber303 · 2014-03-17T17:09:39+00:00

Red pill seems to specialise in convincing guys to give up on stuff they once wanted... such as a smart girlfriend whose converation doesn't make them want to claw their eyes out, or a girlfriend they won't have to watch every minute to see she isn't fucking some other bigger asshole because y'know... she's attracted to assholes right? It does this by telling guys this is just the way it is for everyone and if they lower their standards it means they are alpha.

nerak33 · 2014-03-17T22:13:32+00:00

I don't understand the blue pill hate against niceguys^{^TM} either. It's only natural people behave some way to make others like them. Childish, conflicted, unhealthy, sure. But who the hell hates conflicted people instead of caring for them?

shutayooface · 2014-03-17T17:01:02+00:00

The stereotype is an asshole that acts like a nice guy to get laid. The problem with this stereotype is that it doesn't work. An asshole will NOT get laid if he acts like a niceguy. The opposite is true, a nice guy stands a much greater chance of getting laid if he acts like an asshole.

A poster in another thread made a great point. "Likable" is not the same thing as "lustable"

roe_ · 2014-03-17T22:07:48+00:00

Niceguys^tm are completely non-self invested (self-divested?). Their (subconscious) contract with the world is if I meet the needs of everybody in my life without asking, they will meet mine without asking. (h/t Dr. Robert Glover for this very insightful characterization)

Assholes are completely self-invested, to the exclusion of all others. There is no contract with the world, they just take what they want from it.

Niceguys^tm sometimes overcompensate for their failed strategy by becoming assholes - make the change from self-divestment, to self-investment-to-the-exclusion-of-everybody-else. Even if they don't become assholes, there's an initial re-calibration process as they practise the necessary skills to become more self-invested, which usually involves moments of Asshole Lite.

Charitably unpacking what BPers want: a guy who is self-invested, but who is not an asshole.

Women are attracted to guys who are self-invested, which includes (but is not exclusive to) assholes, but not NiceGuys^tm.

[deleted] · 2014-03-17T14:37:05+00:00

Yes, they were assholes the whole time. The improved success with women is because confidence is attractive.

It's really that simple.

Title	Help me understand
Author	purplethrowie
Upvotes	9
Comments	97
Date	March 17, 2014 5:16 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/20lyw4/help_me_understand/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/help-me-understand.286068 https://theredarchive.com/post/286068

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