How does AWALT work? | PurplePillDebate

Hamuel · 2015-08-13T14:52:20+00:00

I'm sincerely confused. Is it only when a woman displays a negative character trait is AWALT in effect; or does it take effect when a woman displays a...

[–]AnnoyingSeaAnt 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hamuel[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]max_peenorCertified TRP Shitlord3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnoyingSeaAnt 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

From some feminist blog

Overwhelmingly, the reaction of “SOME men” and “Not ALL men” comes from men. (Not all of it, of course.) As a woman pointed out: supposing a bowl of M&Ms is in front of you, and you are invited to help yourself, but you are warned: one in 20 of the M&Ms is poisoned. (Only one in 20 men are rapists, and murderers are rarer than rapists.) At least one in 20 of the M&Ms will make you feel very sick for a long time, and some of the M&Ms will kill you. There’s no indication from the outside of those brightly-coloured candy shells which ones will be delicious and which ones will make you ill or make you die.

AWALT is the TRPer #NotallMen, that is my major problem with it.

It's an useful concept i suppose. Basically "Respect is earned". But making a whole philosophy on it is seedy.

[–]SheriffBart427 points8 points9 points 10 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

For me, awalt is like a mantra. It can be taken literally because with enough observation and experience you will see it is true because women do have a nature. Understanding this nature is truly the essence of TRP.

The reason it's a mantra is because men have a desire and tendency to lose perspective of what creature they are dealing with. They think they can get cute or lazy. They want to believe that their women is different and can be handled in a way that is easier or more enjoyable. They want to believe that she just loves him unconditionally. All different sorts of thoughts and behaviors related to the idea that one girl might be really different from the others.

And so we have this mantra, all women are like that, in order to not fall into these traps.

To address your gender comparison, women and men have a nature. It can be said that all men are like that. However, women's nature is based off pure emotion and instinct. It's not as rational as a man's so therefore they are more patterned and predictable and hence more alike each other.

[–]Hamuel[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

It can be taken literally because with enough observation and experience you will see it is true because women do have a nature.

There is a term called "human nature" which through my observations and experiences is true. AWALT, however, is not.

The reason it's a mantra is because men have a desire and tendency to lose perspective of what creature they are dealing with

I haven't seen this to be true.

They want to believe that their women is different and can be handled in a way that is easier or more enjoyable.

So you don't think you can have a healthy relationship with a woman?

However, women's nature is based off pure emotion and instinct.

Human nature is based off emotion and instinct. Working in sales you'll understand that when you get a person (man or woman) emotionally attached to something you will get a sale.

In sales there is a mantra that is "when emotion meets logic you have a deal." They are emotionally attached to something and justify the purchase through logic.

[–]SheriffBart424 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hamuel[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I found your response to be lacking. "No, you're wrong." being the main thrust.

My main thrust has been the traits described in AWALT can apply equally to both sexes.

Your line about healthy relationship was classic strawman.

That line had this at the end "?" which denotes a question. I was wondering if AWALT means you can not have a health relationship as you start from the base assumption all women have nefarious goals.

You seem married to the idea that there isn't a fundamental difference between men and women.

See, now that is a classic straw man.

Good luck with your "I'm curious about Awalt, but I'm really just looking to shit on anything anyone says in support of it post."

No one has "supported" AWALT, they've just described traits that can be seen in both men and women, but they only apply it to women because of "sexual strategy." Which to me sounds like TRP works against having a healthy relationship.

[–]SheriffBart425 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It's not relevant that men have AMALT parallels. It's the fact that men need to be reminded that AWALT. Trying to argue that point is unnecessary because it doesn't change anything.

I, for one, don't look at women as having nefarious purposes. They just are what they are. There's no problem having healthy relationships with them. It just requires the proper understanding and requisite action. Hence, TRP.

Arguing that there is only human nature and not male/female nature seems a lot like arguing that there is no difference. Not sure how you can justify that two things are different but don't have different natures. Sure, there are commonalities that may be evident in a field like sales, but we're talking about mating and love. Just the fact that women can be pregnant and men can't forces differences in approach to mating. I don't see how you can argue against this.

TRP is based on being as honest and truthful about who you're dealing with in order to give you the best chance to get what you want. That could be sex or a healthy marriage with children. There is nothing fundamentally dysfunctional about TRP that makes it toxic for relationships.

And it's mostly derived from experience and pain. The hostility you're sensing from when guys scream AWALT is a group who haven't really accepted female nature and are bitter that they've been lied to about it.

Your criticisms of AWALT aren't 100% nonsense, but they just miss the point. I clarified in an earlier reply why TRP utilizes AWALT but you didn't accept it.

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To directly answer your question, yes it can for a few reasons.

First, a major tenant of TRP is that a woman won't love you like your mother did and that you will always be judged by your present performance. A man must lead and perform continually. This gives a different definition of a healthy relationship. This relationship does have a transactional element, as do all relationships. But if both parties are happy with the transaction then it's healthy.

Second, manipulation implies malice. Women don't have this malice from my perspective. They have a tool set for getting what they want. So do men. A man, for instance, could rape his woman because his physical power is part of his tool set. Women's tool set is more mental and social strategy based because it's what they have available to them. To call them manipulators is a bit cynical for me. They're just people/women.

Third, let's assume women are trying to manipulate you. Well, some are actually. But even the ones who supposedly care about you. Since you decided to research TRP, you know it's coming and you shut it down and beat them at their own game. It doesn't sound exactly like a healthy relationship, but there's an antagonistic dimension to male/female interactions. And another TRP tenant, women like and respect you for beating them at their own game. From a woman's perspective, her manipulation will either get her what she wants or give you the opportunity to show you won't be bested by her. That shows you're a real man who is worthy of her. She will be both happy and disappointed with both results. Strange creatures.

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I've never seen this stated before.

It doesn't need to be explicitly stated. It's implied in a thousand little lessons imparted to men on how to treat women.

I thought it was more along the lines of "generalizing entire groups is ignorant."

If you're going to attempt to be snarky, you would do best to at least do a passing job of keeping it on topic. But...I'll bite. Generalizations are not only not "ignorant" but they're the basis of behavioral psychology, advertising, medicine, and law. No ad agency has ever said "we can only appeal to one person with an ad, so we need to make 7 billion different ads if you want to sell your product." No doctor has ever said "I have no idea how many hearts are in this chest so we need to rummage around, and confirm before we do this procedure."

Stop being ridiculous for the sake of PC.

[–]Hamuel[S] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It doesn't need to be explicitly stated. It's implied in a thousand little lessons imparted to men on how to treat women.

So they don't need to say something, you can just make it up for them?

If you're going to attempt to be snarky, you would do best to at least do a passing job of keeping it on topic.

I'm not being snarky, I am repeating what is explicitly stated and not just conjured up.

No ad agency has ever said "we can only appeal to one person with an ad, so we need to make 7 billion different ads if you want to sell your product."

Oddly enough I work at an ad agency. We don't "generalize" in a sense like AWALT; we do however use demographic data to focus advertising on media those demographics tend to enjoy.

As far as creative goes; it is basically the same across the board; present a clear message of value and then present it with a call to action. If that is a generalization it is generalizing 7 billion people.

Stop being ridiculous for the sake of PC.

I am sincere in the fact I do not understand how AWALT works.

[–]kick6Red Pill Man5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So they don't need to say something, you can just make it up for them?

What are you even talking about?

I'm not being snarky, I am repeating what is explicitly stated and not just conjured up.

Exactly where is "generalizations are ignorant" explicitly stated?

Oddly enough I work at an ad agency. We don't "generalize" in a sense like AWALT; we do however use demographic data to focus advertising on media those demographics tend to enjoy.

You use statistical data (demographics) to enhance the precision of your generalizations. Wonderful. I bet you still look at women as a demographic group, and try to find ways to sell them products. We've all seen TV. We all see the beauty ads. The message is pretty universal in these ads: youth is beauty. So, apparently, your industry does in fact recognize AWALT despite you trying to brush that fact under the rug because you'd rather be on the side of PC than reality.

[–]Hamuel[S] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What are you even talking about?

that you used emotion to make the decision to fabricate a position not reflected on blue pill.

Exactly where is "generalizations are ignorant" explicitly stated?

any time awalt is brought up.

You use statistical data (demographics) to enhance the precision of your generalizations.

Not what I said at all. We use demographic data to target specific demographics. Demographics aren't exclusively based on gender.

Wonderful. I bet you still look at women as a demographic group, and try to find ways to sell them products.

we usually narrow it down more than just being a woman. It is one of many data points. We do the same with men.

So, apparently, your industry does in fact recognize AWALT despite you trying to brush that fact under the rug because you'd rather be on the side of PC than reality.

Not at all. We recognize behavior patterns among different demographics. That doesn't mean we think all women act a certain way.

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AWALT="female nature"

It has really been explained on here about 39348576576757484884 times that "AWALT" is a way to approach dealing with and thinking about women, similar to the warning to treat guns as "All guns are loaded". At no point is anyone on TRP claiming AWALT is a scientific formulation. All women contain female nature by virtue of the fact that they are women. All humans contain a mix of masculine and feminine traits with the bulk of each sex clustering at the hump of the curve of their respective sex's nature. another crappy graph i drew

The danger for men is that they will meet a woman who seems like a "unicorn", a NAWALT, and they will let their gurd down and get destroyed when her inevitable nature outs.

The original phrase in the man o sphere was NAWALT, NOT all women are like that. It was the constant refrain of every snowflake woman who showed up on a man o sphere site to argue that SHE wasnt "like that" and to proclaim "not all woman are like that". AWALT became the stock response to this and a comment left after endless tales of ostensible unicorns ending up behaving exactly how RPs understanding of femlae nature predicted theyd behave in the end, say, when a man lost his job, or showed his "feelings".

TRP is heuristic and probabalistic. It doesnt matter if there exists "some women" who aren't like that. That doesnt help men navigate the world of women.

[–]Hamuel[S] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

AWALT="female nature"

Is that meant to be a scientific take?

t no point is anyone on TRP claiming AWALT is a scientific formulation.

Yet you just called it "female nature." What did you mean by that?

The danger for men is that they will meet a woman who seems like a "uniconrn", a NAWALT, and they will let their gurd down and get destroyed when her inevitable nature outs.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean.

AWALT became the stock response to this and a comment left after endless tales of ostensible unicorns ending up behaving exactly how RPs understanding of femlae nature predicted theyd behave in the end, say, when a man lost his job, or showed his "feelings".

Does that mean AWALT is scientific in the sense it is predicting behavior patterns?

TRP is heuristic and probabalistic. It doesnt matter if there exists "some women" who aren't like that. That doesnt help men navigate the world of women.

I keep getting told that AWALT isn't literal and then I get arguments like this that seem to treat it literally.

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Wouldn't the fact you are using a "sexual strategy" show hypergamous tendencies and self-centeredness?

The discussion of hypergamy in men and women just leads to confusion and is highly different just given the fact that many many man are willing to bang a 4.

Even the concept of "sexual strategy" is a emotional concept at its core. You are making a decision based on emotion to follow a sexual strategy.

Uh, ok, I don't see how this has to do with anything but yeah maybe maybe not. Let's see two options: Be lonely or use sexual strategy. There definitely is some logic at play here.

And really, almost everyone is attracted to others based on a range of characteristics.

The sky is blue, did you know?

So shouldn't it be APALT and not AWALT?

Again: APALT doesn't work, since many guys would still believe that women are excluded from much of those tendencies. AWALT is there to fight the wishful thinking of having found a unicorn, APALT doesn't do that as well.

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Well here are a few:

example 1:

My daughter is a teenager in highschool and she is very beautiful. She is approached by many men, flirted with fairly often, etc.

I tell her to assume that "all men don't care about you. they just care about your body and your face. men will agree with you and lie to sleep with you."

Only pay attention to the men that truly try to connect with you on a personal and emotional level. These men should only be flirting with you. If they're talking to other pretty girls, then they just want to fuck you.

example 2:

My son just got a new job. "Your company and management does not care about you. They are not looking out for your interests. The company looks out for the companies interests."

"Always check the salary averages in your region and make sure you are compensated."

"If your boss asks for overtime or extra hours, make sure you are paid correctly. Your boss makes money from your work."

Are these assumptions demeaning to men? Are they demeaning to businesses and business leaders?

[–]Hamuel1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Yes, as do women with nefarious goals. That doesn't mean AWALT or AMALT.

Go back to the guns analogy. Is there truly a bullet in every gun? What if my daughter wasn't so careful with choosing men. She went out with a guy that was dating other women, he slept with her, and he left. She would be very hurt?

You still haven't answered my question. How is demeaning to men in your family or your male friends? If those guys like my daughter, they're going to try to connect with her right? How is my daughter's belief about men demeaning? Is she going up to men and saying "you're all sex obsessed freaks?" She is simply using that belief to filter out harmful people.

Yes they do

Then why is it different to assume that people look out for their own self interests? And that the self interests of teenage boys doesn't always match up with the interests of my daughter?

[–]Hamuel1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Epicureanist1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You honestly don't understand how generalizing all men as sex obsessed creeps is demeaning to all men?

No I do not. Here is the definition of demeaning:

that demeans; debasing; degrading:

I would like to know how are men demeaned by my daughter's beliefs. My daughter does not go out and tell men "you're all sex crazed and abusive"?

Let me say it again. Do gunowners really think every gun is loaded?

Which guys? The ones in my sphere? I would assume they would connect with her.

Yes. So how would they be demeaned by my daughter's beliefs?

I have no idea; I can't read her mind. Some women want a one night stand; others want a long term relationship.

No not by the sex. But by caring about someone, believing that they care about you, and finding out that they only saw you as a warm hole.

[–]Hamuel1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Epicureanist1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Explain it to me like I'm 5.

Why is it wrong to believe that men are sex obsessed creeps?

I do not tell men about my beliefs.
Men are not harmed or shamed by my beliefs
My beliefs help me find good men.

Unless you disagree with the definition of demeaning:

that demeans; debasing; degrading:

You can't just say: "this is true. i don't understand how you don't see that. are you being obtuse".

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Let me say it again. Does the gunowner truly believe all guns are loaded?

If my daughter believed all men were sex crazed she wouldn't talk to men at all would she? But this belief exists so that she can talk to men and sort the good (people who care about her personality and thoughts) from the bad (people who see a walking hole).

degrading

Here is the meaning of degrading:

treat or regard (someone) with contempt or disrespect.

How does my daughter's belief degrade men? Remember she does not go out and tell men that they are all sex-crazed.

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Whoooa now, hold on there- are you seriously saying that anyone who does anything to improve themselves in hopes it will help them be more successful in relationships is red pill? Because no. No no no. If your ideology began and ended with self-improvement, no one would have any problem with it. It's when you get into emotional manipulation, sexual coercion (yes, that is what pushing through "LMR" is, no matter how you try to spin it) and blatant dishonesty in relationships that people are disgusted. It's not OK to "spin plates" when you tell any of them you're not seeing other people. It's not OK to blatantly disrespect your partner by flirting with other people in front of them as if they mean nothing. It's not OK to dismiss your partner's problems with gaslighting techniques or leaving and refusing to discuss them.

By all means, lift. Get hobbies. Become a person other people want to be around- that's always good advice. It's your "strategies" that are repugnant to decent people.

[–]probably_quite_drunk1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Whoooa now, hold on there- are you seriously saying that anyone who does anything to improve themselves in hopes it will help them be more successful in relationships is red pill?

No, and your assumption of such would be a strawman. If you actually bothered reading the comment, I said "You used a strategy that overlaps with RP strategy".

It's when you get into emotional manipulation, sexual coercion (yes, that is what pushing through "LMR" is, no matter how you try to spin it) and blatant dishonesty in relationships that people are disgusted. It's not OK to "spin plates" when you tell any of them you're not seeing other people. It's not OK to blatantly disrespect your partner by flirting with other people in front of them as if they mean nothing. It's not OK to dismiss your partner's problems with gaslighting techniques or leaving and refusing to discuss them.

Where did I say any of that was okay? Again, you're trying to strawman me.

It's your "strategies" that are repugnant to decent people.

Whose? I'm not RP. I'm not flaired as such, and I don't espouse that ideology. I simply point out flaws in arguments, you know - as in a debate. That thing one does in a debate sub.

If you're having a difficult time separating your own emotions from logic and can't reply to what I actually said without projecting your anger towards all of RP onto me, maybe you shouldn't be here.

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I don't really buy into the whole"we are hard wired" sort of thing, at one point we had needs, we don't have those needs anymore, I think nurture is beginning to defeat nature.

In what way? Sure we value gold and smartphones now more than seashells or peacock feathers.

The context is different. But in what way would The underlying behavioral script change?

Heck if anything, by weakening Patriarchal laws and expectations that artificially restricted female sexuality, I'd argue we are having a resurgence of nature over nurture.

(One could even argue at the same time, that there's been a major push maintaining and increasing the laws and expectations that restrict male sexuality)

Furthermore, "The Feeling" of getting horny is probably one of the least rational things we as humans do. And in the subconscious, instinct is very powerful.

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Title	How does AWALT work?
Author	Hamuel
Upvotes	6
Comments	342
Date	August 13, 2015 2:52 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3guszg/how_does_awalt_work/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-does-awalt-work.280342 https://theredarchive.com/post/280342

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