No means no

tryin2figureitout · 2014-07-26T21:02:34+00:00

I saw a lot of that in high school. Maybe some in early college. It's not usually a straight up no though. Its more, "I don't know if we should", "maybe we should wait" or the most common line I heard, "I don't want you to think I'm a slut" or some derivation thereof. To me it was very demoralizing because I wanted to believe they were as into it as I was and yet at the last second there they were equivocating. I took it as an insult and lost out on a good experience more than once because I listened to there words and not actions.

When I got a little older I heard enough women complain about men not being aggressive enough I started pushing a little harder and it worked like a charm. It seems to me all that last minute resistance stuff is either them wanting to see if you really want them and/or them avoiding any responsibility for what happens. This way it's not them being slutty and wanting sex it's them allowing you to take it from them.

am_thro_way · 2014-07-27T10:38:06+00:00

"Pushing through LMR" can work, but it doesn't necessarily mean that "no means yes". To share an example from my own life, once I went home with a guy after a party, for the implicit purpose of having sex. By the time we got to his place, I was feeling rather tired and not really in the mood, so when he started putting the moves on me I was like "yeah maybe let's not do this".

And he was like "oh c'mon why?" And I was like "I'm tired" And he was like "c'mon it'll be fun" And I was like "no I don't want to do this, I just want to go home" And he was like "but whyy don't you want to have sex, it's not like it's gonna kill you or anything" And I was like "look I just don't want to" And he was like "but whyyyy, c'mon at least give me a blowjob" And I was tired of arguing so we had sex, it was pretty terrible.

So yeah, pushing through LMR worked in that scenario, but that doesn't mean I was lying about being tired and not wanting to have sex in the first place. Just that I was willing to endure the sex rather than having an endless argument or just rudely walking right out of there.

I guess this is something that's difficult for more assertive people to understand. I'm generally spineless and cave to pressure easily, and as such I've agreed to do a lot of things I don't want to do because somebody was pestering me. I once agreed to go on a 2-week camping trip with my family even though I hate camping, because my mother wouldn't stop giving me a hard time about it. The fact that I eventually agreed to go doesn't mean I secretly loved camping all along.

EDIT: Should also probably mention that I had had sex with the same guy before, so this definitely wasn't about not wanting to be perceived as a slut or whatever.

fiat_lux_ · 2014-07-26T20:13:59+00:00

From what I've seen most rpers don't have a problem with that.

They rage far more often about instances where "yes means no". [Next day] Withdrawal of consent (though that may be more of an mra thing) or the borderline between "consent" and "enthusiastic consent".

It's not like rpers are the only ones confused and struggling over this. Even bpers argue among themselves over whether "sure" means "no" (due to lack of enthusiasm) or if it is enough to mean "yes".

cxj · 2014-07-27T06:01:48+00:00

Hate to sound like a bragging douche, you can believe me or not I'm a stranger on the internet, but I have a double digit partner count and have encountered last minute resistance in almost every first sexual encounter except one, and that girl had an abnormally ferocious sex drive. It's not usually a straight up "no", it's more like non verbal evasive behavior, like you're fingering her but she's not letting you get the pants off (yet), and in my experience just wants you to say or do something to make her not feel easy/like a slut.

Perspective133 · 2014-07-26T20:16:50+00:00

Fuck it, I'll bite.

Let's point out a few things - "No" doesn't necessarily mean "Not ever" - it can also mean "Not now", "not yet" or "not tonight".

Also... I have heard "We're not having sex tonight" and then later had CONSENSUAL sex with a woman. It is a woman's prerogative to change her mind on a moment's notice about pretty much anything.

StabbyPants · 2014-07-28T03:05:36+00:00

does "no" at times mean "yes?"

yep. stuff like this happens. Call it a combination of enjoying domination and being unclear on how to communicate that.

No idea on prevalence.

PaulRivers10 · 2014-07-30T05:40:57+00:00

So, I turn it over to you: in your opinion or experience, does "no" at times mean "yes?" Similarly, is "last-minute resistance" a common thing that you've encountered? If you have encountered it, how did you determine that "no meant yes" in that instance?

A friend of mine was a player for a while, then got a girlfriend by assuming "no" meant "not right now but try again later" - repeatedly. A lot. Seriously.

I found the same thing with a girl I visited. Long story short, I walked her out to her car, she seemed like she was supposed to leave but didn't want to. I tried to kiss her (we had already discussed that we liked each other) - she physically kept me from kissing her on the lips. I was standing on the other side of her car, so she had a clear path to the drivers door. I stepped back - she didn't leave at all. We talked for a bit more, I tried it again - got a little closer, but she still physically kept me away. Same thing - she seemed in no hurry to leave. Honestly, it was so weird it started getting to me. I think it happened once more, then I could tell if I did it one more time she wouldn't "stop me". That's when my own brain screwed me over going "you're in another state, are you going to hurt this girl emotionally by getting involved with her then leaving?". So I backed off and went back to my room. On her way home she texted me saying she was excited to hang out with me the next day.

The next day we went to a dance thing - but I was so shot from the tension and wondering if I was honestly doing something wrong that I wasn't really digging her. We drove together, but I spent most of my time talking to other people, etc. I dropped her off at the end.

Next day she texts me "I don't like what's going on". Then when I said "what don't you like?" she says "You don't know?". Seriously - she was fine with me being persistent and sexually aggressive, but hated when I ignored her and treated her like just another person.

pickup_sticks · 2014-07-26T20:15:49+00:00

In my experience LMR is less common in older women. While TRP might say that's because they're more desperate, I think it's more that they care less about what other people think and are more self-aware of what they want. These days I don't generally try to push through LMR, though I did a few times in the past.

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2014-07-27T01:37:12+00:00

Sucks when your in the heat of the moment, the chick says no and you back off. Oooh the disappointment.

Here's my rule: If she gives me a stern and serious no then I back off. But she gives me a nervous and unsecured hesitant no then I'll keep pushing the boundaries or dread her.

la_sabotage · 2014-07-27T21:59:13+00:00

Kind of funny how terpers downvote every single female redditor in this thread.

MasonJarTeaDrinker · 2014-07-28T19:05:29+00:00

I've encountered it before but it's not a clear "No" it's more of an unsure kind of thing. They act like they do and then act like they don't want to but when I seem to push it a bit in a way it takes the responsibility off of their hands and they go for it. If I got a decisive no though I would stop, I don't want to be seen as a rapist.

2FAM0US · 2014-07-26T20:20:42+00:00

As a female, I've taken that very seriously. I've never said "no" and meant "yes."

which disproves it? proves otherwise? look, if this was an isolated incident we would not have a term for it. there would be an AskTRP thread "my girl backed out last minute" and it would die soon after. the fact that we discuss this (discuss it enough for the other side to know it exists) means this happened on enough separate occasions. multiple men had very similar experiences.

So, I turn it over to you: in your opinion or experience, does "no" at times mean "yes?"

its not a matter of "no" or "yes" as much as an uncertainty. LMR occurs when the female is unsure of her own desires, or experiencing internal conflict. these are very common behaviors in women, who tend to be more analytical and less driven by raw sex drive. perhaps a part of her wants to fuck, but some other component to the situation is making her reluctant or uncomfortable. sometimes a sexual advance can be so exciting/stimulating that an inexperienced girl will freak out and give a default answer. this can be "yes" but a lot of times it tends to be "no" and this might even lead the woman to regret her own decision! similar to a guy regretting not having approached a girl.

how do you know for sure when a person actually means "no"?

by being aware of body language, tone of voice, and the setting you are in.

[deleted] · 2014-07-26T21:42:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

sh1v · 2014-07-27T10:09:01+00:00

Yes my wife threw up heavy LMR when we first started hooking up. Maybe the first 5 times. She had constructed this whole weird narrative in her head about me 'swaying' her from her ex, who she'd just broken up with. Apparently the whole process of me pushing through those token boundaries and nos was a huge turn on.

To be frank, only the asian girls I've been with do this. White chicks are always either being all shy and quiet (back in high school anyway) or enthusiastic consent. I think part of it may be cultural.

How do I determine that no means yes? I look at actions rather than words. "No" while grinding my cock is not a real no. No while giggling and pulling just far enough away that I can still barely kiss you, repeatedly, is not a real no. No while sitting there in shell shocked silence staring at nothingness and trembling ever so slightly is probably a real no. (Not that I've ever actually run into that one.)

It's very situational and yes, it is a dangerous game. But that's just the game you have to play with certain women because that's apparently what gets them off.

nope_nic_tesla · 2014-07-27T04:26:27+00:00

Anybody who has flatly said "no" has meant it in my experience. As a man, every time I have said "no" I have meant it.

SickSadWorId · 2014-09-16T13:15:54+00:00

If you have encountered it, how did you determine that "no meant yes" in that instance?

she mumbled "no" so i stopped immediately. She literally said "why did you stop?" After a look of utter disbelief she said "what's wrong?" I walked out of the room. "no means no" is something I take very seriously and if misused, can pretty much mean you're dumped no second chance. It makes me angry that women throw around such a serious implication that i've gone too far just to brush it off. "if you move your hand 1 mm further up my leg you will face the next 5-20 years in jail where you will be miserable and probably raped" in the form of a mumbled "no" will always be met with a "please get dressed and leave my property now".

[deleted] · 2014-07-27T02:46:08+00:00

I never bang without an established safeword. Standard.

As for the word no itself, it's worthless, and I will ignore it, because the real no is the safeword.

Title	No means no
Author	Exner2
Upvotes	10
Comments	129
Date	July 26, 2014 8:07 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2bsxjp/no_means_no/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/no-means-no.285235 https://theredarchive.com/post/285235

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