Q4RP - should a man be stoic or fun?

Salty-Bastard · 2018-10-25T03:32:43+00:00

A man should be stoic during times of stress or leadership and fun during times of relaxation.

blackedoutfast · 2018-10-25T05:28:16+00:00

100% fun. at least if we're talking about getting laid.

sometimes guys will say something about "seeming mysterious" will make women interested, or being the strong silent type, or "james bond game" or other stupid shit like that. and maybe those dudes do occasionally get lucky doing that. but they absolutely would be far more successful if they were at the opposite extreme, being the loud, extroverted, center of attention guy who seems like he must have an endorsement deal with Cocaine™ - if you really want to slay serious poon, that's the guy you should be. when that guy is in the room, women won't even notice that guy silently sitting in a corner sipping a faggy vodka martini and larping as 007

i do get what guys are saying about how it's manly to stay calm and in control during stressful situations. and that's true, but it's not the whole story.

it's the last thing we should be telling to most of the guys who come to RP because they're struggling with women. the most widespread issues for these dudes are social anxiety, timidity, shyness, approach anxiety, etc. if you tell them to be stoic, they're just going to latch onto that and use it as an excuse to quietly sit in the corner and hope women will approach them. and they will fail, which will fuck with their confidence and frame, which will just make everything worse.

hammerhaunts · 2018-10-25T03:24:51+00:00

MisterJose · 2018-10-25T10:44:13+00:00

A man doesn't act a certain way for someone else. He likes what he likes.

The worst thing I ever did with women was try to be what I thought they wanted me to be. That whole notion is flawed from the get go, because it just reads that you see her as above you because you're willing to twist and contort yourself into whoever she might like. What does that say about your self-respect? Fuck that. Same goes for trying to be what other men tell you you should be.

wekacuck · 2018-10-25T03:38:52+00:00

What does it mean for a man to act stoically?

The goal is to keep a grip on rationality in the face of emotion. Particularly during a time of crisis or stress. Keep a cool head. Don't be carried away by emotion. etc.

Does this contradict with the idea that men should be fun/confidant? D

No, play is play.

Bonus: should a man be able and encouraged to show emotion or should they "man up"? I ask this because I think a lot of what I read on trp is because men aren't comfortable showing emotion, but the trp also means they should be "stoic."

What does "manning up" have to do with showing emotion? Manning up means to do something you don't want to do and not bitch too much about it. It doesn't mean you have to be happy or stonefaced while doing it. You just have to do it even though you don't wanna 'cause it needs to be done. I don't know whether "showing emotion" while manning up should be encouraged or discouraged. I think it just means stop being a drama queen and eat your veg.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-10-25T04:35:54+00:00

I got the book sitting right next to me - A guide to the good life (the ancient art of stoic joy). The whole point, to me, was to be far more competent and productive. Through hard work you open up the idea that you can take joy in your accomplishments. This is not the same as happy, which you can get by buying a puppy or something. Stoic is in opposition of a hedonistic lifestyle.

I think a lot of TRP guys have that hole in them. Purposeless, stagnate and miserable.

dolforrot · 2018-10-25T05:22:19+00:00

Its easily possible to be stoic and fun.

Stoicism means not lettitng your situation dictate your emotions. You win the lotto, you don't get over the top excited. Your child dies, you don't let that make you depressed and unable to futnction.

It does not mean being grim and serious all the time.

During the blitz of Britain of WWII Londeners famously went about their business as normally as possible despite having bombs dropped on them most nights. They maintained their humour about things and tried to keep things as normal as possible. That is stoicism.

messiahslave · 2018-10-25T08:38:46+00:00

What does it mean for a man to act stoically ?

To act stoically is to act according to your reason and without passion, this can brodaly be sum up as follow "Subjice te rationi si tibi subjicere vis omnia" which can be translate as "submit yourself to reason if you want to submit everything to yourself" or " and if you would have all things under your control, put yourself under the control of reason" (Seneca, Moral letter to Lucilius, Letter 37 : on allegience to virtue)

Does this contradict with the idea that men should be fun/confidant ?

Conducting yourself according to reason is not a contradiction with being confident indeed as Seneca said that will lead you to confidence since conducting yourself according to reason will allow you, according to him, to "have all things under your control". I doubt someone who has all things under his control will not be confident since skill and success build confidence.

Regarding the "fun" part, depend on how you define "fun" but if your idea of fun is partying, pass out drunk, hooking up and more generaly speaking if you define fun as seeking pleasure through your passion then there is definetly a contradiction between Stoicism and this fun as the stoic will seek pleasure through the absence of pain and the mitigation of passion.

As Horace said "remember to keep a clear head in difficult times and to restrain yourself from immoderate joy in time of prosperity"

Should a man be able and encouraged to show emotion or should they "man up"? I ask this because I think a lot of what I read on trp is because men aren't comfortable showing emotion, but the trp also means they should be "stoic."

Well, it depends on whether you believe in Stoicism or not, a Stoic will not show emotions since he seeks to control them and taking his decisions based on actions.

The "man up" thing is unclear, what does it means ? not showing emotion by opposition to showing emotion.

Finaly the best way to learn about stoic philosophy is to read stoic philosophers like the one I quote and not the TRP cause as far as I know the TRP is not known to be a famous stoic philosopher.

Also the stoicism is not all about how to conduct oneself in life, to be truth is the first philosophers that have been build a system in philsophy, indeed, in the Stoicism there is three great branches to sum it up broadly and approximatively : a philosophy of nature or physic, of moral or spirit and a logic. Fun fact this is the first systematic philsophy attempt and the last one which is consider to be the Hegel's system also have the same branches with the exception that the logic was viewed in the stoicism as a thinking upon the language only while for Hegel it is a reflection on language/spirit/being. (I oversimplify it but we could write books and books on the science of logic).

Hope it helps.

exit_sandman · 2018-10-25T11:46:30+00:00

Ron Swanson or Tom Haverford?

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-10-25T13:59:15+00:00

What does it mean for a man to act stoically?

When my girl's dad was dying all I did was act like an emotionless husk, follow her around the hospital and help her with things and hug her every time she looked like she was about to cry. I held on with that until I watched him die and that fucked me up a little and I basically begged her cousin to give me weed that night so I wouldn't keep rewatching it in my head. There definition through example

Does this contradict with the idea that men should be fun/confident?

No, you should be fun/confident when times are good and stoic when times are bad

Bonus: should a man be able and encouraged to show emotion or should they "man up"?

You're allowed to show emotion when it's warranted. I cried after her dad died. That's fine. I didn't cry after I got hit by a car. That also would have been fine. You should never show emotion about basic day to day whining unless you like being single

KikiYuyu · 2018-10-25T21:15:15+00:00

A man should just be an adult who is male, capable, and responsible. Other than that I don't think there's one right way to be a man. Emotional, stoic, doesn't really matter that much so long as it isn't harmful or getting in the way of normal functions.

GayLubeOil · 2018-10-25T06:24:56+00:00

The dictionary definition of Stoic and Stoicism as a philosophy are two different things.

There's nothing "stoic" about being a super serious blowhard
Super serious blow hards have low verbal intelligence (which is why theyre incapable of comprehending Aurelius)
Anyone who thinks men can't be masculine and show emotion has never heard of Fidel Castro
Low verbal intelligence blowhards don't seek out new information and just repeat a script.

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iceicle999 · 2018-10-25T04:44:32+00:00

In my personal experience, everyone (women too!) like it when I open up and engage with others and add more color to the dynamic that is me. But I feel as though others expect that out of me, and I don't want to be that way unless I want to do it. So the odd time I receive that mental prompt, I'm all for it, but other than that I like being stoic and closed off. Masculinity has different incarnations and men in western society should be used to the fact that they are expected to adhere to multiple, sometimes contradictory, types of masculinity simultaneously.

sketch162000 · 2018-10-25T04:45:19+00:00

It's not stoic as in a boring hardass. It's that a man should be unshakeable. There's not many things more unattractive than to watch a man completely lose his shit.

This would include being fun, because while a woman would be internally/externally freaking out, the man should ideally be in such control of every situation situation that he can laugh and crack stupid jokes.

It's totally unrealistic, but lizard brains do be like that sometimes.

reluctantly_red · 2018-10-25T06:16:27+00:00

The two are not mutually exclusive. Especially since its totally possible to be fun without playing the fool.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-10-25T09:09:02+00:00

Stoic is a state of mind it does not mean act like an emotionless robot.

Having a stoic mindset is not a bad thing but you should not just act boring and emotionless, you won't make friends and fuck bitches like that.

goatismycopilot · 2018-10-25T10:29:38+00:00

Stoic is usually boring and disengaged. Fun is often loud and Bro like. Both are unappealing in isolation. You should be able to switch emotional gears without being overly reactive and read the mood of the room.

the_calibre_cat · 2018-10-25T13:59:43+00:00

Both, paradoxically.

Trp says a man should be stoic, but it always says a man should be fun/confident.

It isn't TRP that "says" this. It's TRP that identified this.

FieldMarshalHaig · 2018-10-26T03:15:26+00:00

Please read some good stoics. Ancient stoics were great men who led good life and taught others men to do the same. Stoicism isn't aversion to fun rather it's aversion to hedonism.

Currycell92 · 2018-10-26T22:26:21+00:00

Trick question. He has to be good looking.

Mr_White119811 · 2018-10-25T03:52:24+00:00

OK Im going to look at this from a PUA angle. My flair kind of gives away one of my major influences.

What does it mean for a man to act stoically?

Lets just go with the dictionary definition:

a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.

Does this contradict with the idea that men should be fun/confidant? D

No, not at all. At least when using the dictionary definition. I take it as controlling your own state, ie being fun/confident. FROM WITHIN not dependent on external factors.

IE if I am talking to someone, and they say something I may disagree with, Im still going to be in that same state. Im not going to let other decide my state for me.

Whatever they say is OK, if I agree that is OK. If they dont agree that is OK as well. But Im going to have fun regardless.

Bonus: should a man be able and encouraged to show emotion or should they "man up"? I ask this because I think a lot of what I read on trp is because men aren't comfortable showing emotion, but the trp also means they should be "stoic."

What does this have to do with "manning up". If some bad shit happens in my life, whining about it changes nothing. Taking action will change things. Thats manning up. Taking action not complaining. For example 2 and a half years ago, I got made redundant, shit happens, instead of complaining how unfair it was like a colleague did, I updated my CV and found a new job. My colleague who just showed his emotions and bitched, did not. Maybe if he had accepted the fact that he had been made redundant and went searching he would of found a new job. What he did was not manning up, it was whining and he tried to put his destiny under the control of those he whined at, instead of owning it like a boss. This however has nothing to do with stoicism or being confident. Hell I had people saying they respected me because of the way I handled it. Do you think anyone respected the whiner, regardless of him "showing his emotions" and all the good that did him?

Title	Q4RP - should a man be stoic or fun?
Author	JW_2
Upvotes	4
Comments	69
Date	October 25, 2018 3:24 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9r6np0/q4rp_should_a_man_be_stoic_or_fun/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4rp-should-a-man-be-stoic-or-fun.259304 https://theredarchive.com/post/259304

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