The Class Room with AFC [BP Edition]: Correct usage of the word "entitlement".

NataliyaKochergova · 2015-02-01T22:37:44+00:00

I've been thinking about entitlement for a while, and I'm starting to think that most accusations of entitlement are wrong. I got this comment on my blog:

"I get to ask you: how do you know when the word “entitled” is correct to apply, to someone’s feelings or attitude? It gets thrown around quite a bit, but after thinking about it I’ve really come to the conclusion that it’s mostly just shaming language and ultimately meaningless.

Here’s another way to put it:

If a person says/writes explicitly, “I am entitled to X” or “I feel I’m entitled to X”, then there’s no argument that the person has entitled feelings/attitude.
If a person does not use the word “entitled” to describe him/herself, then how and when, exactly, are you entitled (as it were) to apply that word? Can you do better here than resorting to the word “seems”, as in “he seems to feel entitled” or “it just seems that way to me”? Is there a definite, objective, logical criterion for when/where this should apply?"

So I responded with this:

"That’s an interesting question. On the first glance, I mostly agree with you. It’s hard to tell when someone is feeling entitled.

If a woman calls a man “gay” for rejecting her in a club, is she feeling entitled to his attention? Perhaps not – she is simply reacting like a jerk when her expectations has been violated by this guy, probably feels a bit humiliated, and is trying to regain her social status or ego. She should get thicker skin and take it in stride when it happens, but it doesn’t mean she felt entitled.

If a rapist rapes a woman, did he feel entitled to sex with her? I don’t know. Perhaps he didn’t feel like he’s owed sex at all, but he simply doesn’t mind using force to get it. Same for thieves who steal and muggers who rob.

The only time it’s clear to me that someone’s feeling entitled, is when they lack something, say they are owed it/have a right to it, and demand the government give it to them. It can be correct, if it’s something like the right to freedom of speech (I feel entitled to that). But it can also be bad, like when someone feels they have a right to someone else’s stuff. That leads me to conclude that politics are full of entitled-feeling people, and are actively encouraging entitlement "

P.S.: obviously being rude and being a rapist is still bad, even if I don't think those people necessarily feel entitled to anything.

exit_sandman · 2015-02-01T21:17:57+00:00

Solid post. And though I'm an ESL, I may shed some light on the issue here from my perspective:

When checking a dictionary, a term with an ambiguous meaning is usually given several different possible translations that serve best to reflect the full scope of that word. The scope can be wide and depend on context, place in syntactic construct etc., or it can be narrow.

The term "entitled" is one of the second sort - apart from the alternative meaning "having the title of" (in case of books), literally all other translations have a similar meaning, which implies that this term isn't very ambiguous, but rather pretty clear. "Entitled" generally means something along the lines of "having a right/privilege automatically bestowed upon you as a consequence of your status (as a legal adult, as the citizen of a country, as an executive of a company, as the Queen of England, as someone who has entered a legally binding contract like a purchase or an insurance etc.)". Usually, what you're entitled to is also more or less something that could be legally enforced (being entitled to something usually also means having certain duties to justify the right you get out of it). Which by definition excludes how another persons thinks and feels about you - and, regarding my own native language, telling someone "I am entitled to you thinking a certain way of me" would be less outrageous and more utterly nonsensical, because it actually doesn't make any sense.

So, even the nicest of nice guys certainly don't think they are "entitled" to something. In fact, I dare to say the opposite - or why do you think do they try to work themselves incessantly in the good graces of a particular girl if they thought that they were entitled to a certain treatment from her just by virtue of being who they are? The much more fitting explanation is that they want to make themselves deserving of the good graces (and the feelings) of said particular woman. Or in general that they deserve not to do "worse than Henry". Which is misguided and ultimately futile because they're engaging in some sort of transaction where there is none, but you can hardly blame them of being entitled (but sure, I admit it's easier to vilify them that way and to ignore the fact that they maybe have a reason for being riled up because they feel taken for fools).

Ironically, it's usually bluepillers (as in: the mindset, not the sub) believing in the just world-fallacy who throw around the concept of being "deserving" of something as if there was an automatism for it - at least when I am reading the /r/relationships-posts (or 2xc or others) when someone complains about his or her miserable partner, you can bet on getting at least a bunch of "you deserve better"-posts, even though the commenters know literally nothing about the OP apart from that person's particular sob story.

NataliyaKochergova · 2015-02-01T22:45:41+00:00

I also don't believe "feeling one deserves" and "feeling entitled to" are the same thing. Most people would agree with the idea "No one is entitled to sex", but who would say "No one deserves sex"? That would be harsh.

When someone is feeling entitled, they feel they have a right. When someone feels they deserve something, it's not about rights or being owed something - it's feeling you are a decent person, having good self-esteem. Not everyone who deserves, gets. Such is life.

crankypants15 · 2015-02-02T10:21:41+00:00

Guy here. I take responsibility for my own failures in the dating world in my past: My own lack of confidence, my own lack of boundaries. I don't whine and blame someone else. I focused on improving myself. And I got results.

Since I've done that I'm much more successful in dating, and I'm much more happy. Who woulda thunk taking responsibility would result in happiness?

I've never ever seen a guy say he is entitled to sex, though I have seen guys complain when they are frequently bad at dating, but are unwilling to change their tactics. If they are bad at dating, then maybe the problem is them. At the very least they could look at what they could do to improve about themselves.

rackmerackyou · 2015-02-01T22:23:07+00:00

Cool, I'm in a post! Hello there!

If you look at my comment, I specifically said "some men feel entitled to sex". I don't see how you got "men are, in general entitled to sex".

On mobile and at work atm (missing the Super Bowl :<), but I could give you more clarification later if you would like.

Short version would be that I think you are completely misrepresenting what entitlement means as well as ignoring how dictionaries themselves are politically situated in structures of power. DFW has a really great essay on dictionaries, I could link it for you when I get home if you don't wanna search for it.

pandararosie basically hit the nail on the head, though. Entitlement has nothing to do with whether or not you put effort into something -- it's about the feeling of being owed something for the effort (or lack thereof) you did put in.

And it's not a shaming tactic. As an American citizen, I feel entitled to certain privileges, such as having certain kinds of speech protected under the first amendment.

As a side note, I have a degree in English from Berkeley, so I've actually studied theory of histories and linguistics to a good extent.

EDIT: Longer post here.

l_____o_____l · 2015-02-02T14:01:44+00:00

Entitlement: What the word actually means: The correct usage of the word “entitlement” in context of engendered discussion should be more correctly used to describe a situation in which someone has expended no effort, but expresses a displeased disposition in regards to his or her results, lack there-of, or other people’s behavior towards it.

This couldnt be more wrong.

There is no amount of "effort" that entitles you to sex with a specific girl.

Thinking that entitlement has anything to do with how much effort you put in is the classic mistake of the entitled.

OfSpock · 2015-02-02T05:52:11+00:00

I dont' believe that I am entitled. When I found the men unsuited to me, I moved on, without demanding that they change for me or insulting them.

rackmerackyou · 2015-02-02T08:18:55+00:00

See original post.

Alright, let's first address how you set this up all wrong.

What BluePills think it [entitlement] means

You done goofed right at the beginning. It doesn't make sense to begin a debate with someone by telling that someone what they think. I know what I think because I'm thinking it -- so let me say it. This is like the strawman's estranged cousin or something.

Your definition:

The correct usage of the word “entitlement” in context of engendered discussion should be more correctly used to describe a situation in which someone has expended no effort, but expresses a displeased disposition in regards to his or her results, lack there-of, or other people’s behavior towards it.

isn't even supported by the definitions you gave. First of all, it's just a different definition -- plain and simple. Second, I assume that you are basing your personal definition of entitlement on the example used in British Oxford thing you cited (year/edition please?):

"to give (a person) the right to do or have something; qualify; allow Again, the idea that one believes they have an inherent right to do or have something. Ie. in the face or in spite of a lack of effort."

First of all, the example is not the definition. This shouldn't have to be said. Secondly, implicit in "in spite of a lack of effort" is that refraining from putting effort into something does not discount the possibility of feeling or otherwise being entitled to something. The example is explaining away something that might commonly be thought of as an exception to a state of feeling/being entitled. It is not the rule -- it is broadening the reach of the rule.

In this example, /u/RackMeRackYou insinuates that men are, in general entitled to sex.

No, I don't, read my post again.

that worldview flies in direct contention with the the fact that men’s self improvement movements such as PUA and TRP exist. If men generally felt they were owed sex, these communities couldn’t exist as they literally hinge on the expenditure of effort.

Putting effort into something does not make impossible the feeling of being entitled. PUA and TRP advocate improvement for the sole purpose of "getting" sex and, in the event that "improvements" do not lead to "getting" sex, it is entirely possible that some TRPs could feel entitled to sex precisely because they think they -put in the effort- for it.

I'm not saying -- nor have I ever said -- that this was the case for all men. I didn't even say it was the case for a majority, though I think it. And I don't think it's the end of the world if some people feel entitled to sex. However, we've seen this time and time and time and time and time and time again. I tried to find recent ones, but honestly this sentiment has been around for a long time. Does every TRPer feel entitled to sex? No. Do some TRPers feel entitled to sex? Sure. So do many non-TRPers.

There are plenty of TRPers -- imo, most of them -- that have traded their "nice guy"/friendship coins for "RP"/"totally alpha"/[insert neg]/frame, frame, frame/lift coins and think that putting enough of those in should reward a TRPer with sex. That is entitlement by definition, regardless of whether or not it works, because TRPers expect sex in return -- they are (in their framework) entitled to sex because of the effort they put in. If there was no expectation/promise of sex at the end of the RP tunnel, none of the sex-obsessed/hungry guys would follow TRP.

And, aside from all this, you don't even get that the dictionary definitions that you are relying on are themselves politically and historically situated. DFW's "Tense Present" illustrates the biases that lurk in highly-regarded dictionaries and sources of (linguistic) authority -- biases/ideas which influence popular discourse because of the dependence on the language of dictionaries. So, assuming that the text you quoted supports your definition of entitlement (which we already know it does not), we still would have to contend with the agendas of the language in the dictionaries themselves.

I also wanted to touch upon the language surrounding entitlement in legal discourse and talk about "feeling" entitled vs. the legal/civil statement of "being" entitled, but I'm just gonna end here because this is getting a bit longer than I wanted..

17b29a · 2015-02-01T20:42:31+00:00

In essence, entering any given situation with a result, or expectation qualifies (to a BluePill) as entitlement or an entitled attitude.

That would be what the word means, so yeah.

eta dear god this has to be one of the worst posts I've ever seen on this subreddit

pandorarosie · 2015-02-01T21:39:15+00:00

Merriam-Webster dictionary says entitlement (noun) is..

the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)

Yup. I'd say BP has it right.

sh1v · 2015-02-02T06:42:54+00:00

Its actually a good thing to be entitled. It shows youre A) high status B) accustomed to getting what you want to the point where you no longer feel it is a privilege, but an ordinary facet of your life. Entitlement is akin to assuming the sale, if done right - its a display of confidence and assertiveness.

I think most blue pillers who claim to dislike "entitlement" actually dislike its close cousin, resentment. Resentment is the sexually frustrated prole's version of entitlement. Where entitlement says "Listen fuck all your nonsense, I'm going to fuck you right in the pussy because that's just what i usually do to women". Resentment says, "I never get laid... but I should, dammit. Women are so unjust."

Blue pillers dislike the latter more than the former, although they'll claim to dislike both. If you notice, all their barbs and vitriol are always aimed at the weaker man, the resentful man. Partly because they realize that their opinion, criticism etc just falls on deaf ears when dealing with men who already getting laid/confident.

What blue pillers like to do, is shit on the weak, and try to keep them as weak as possible. They want the resentful man to just give up on sex entirely, because they instinctively hate and are revolted by him and want to purge the gene pool of his presence. Being an incel is not enough of a punishment -- in the blue pill mind, a weak man even wanting sex in the first place is an affront, which he must be constantly shamed and ridiculed for, preferably to the point of killing himself.

That's the underlying logic of "Stop feeling entitled to sex!"

WeezFest · 2015-02-02T06:58:09+00:00

Hey dude, not sure if this has been pointed out, but saying that men are more willing to do work etc then woman to raise their SMV than men really hurts your argument. Almost all attractive girls I know do put considerable effort into it. And I think this attitude in general hurts TRP more than anything and why I consider myself purple pill. Discounting or ignoring females efforts to be desirable is a huge problem with TRP. Almost every attractive girl I know does put considerable effort into it. Other than you are definitely spot on. I lost count on how many times I've been called entitled because a girl interpreted my frustration in being denied by her as me thinking that being nice to her makes me entitled to sex with her. Fuck no, I'm nice to everyone. I just showed frustration as anger, a natural human expression of frustration.

Edit: I'm going to include deserving in this too. No one is ever entitled or deserving of sex. It is "earned" by creating attraction. Something that one may be able to create, but not control. This does change what I have to say about frustration. Being denied sex doesn't mean I feel entitle or deserving, my attitude change only reflects my frustration. A very big difference, and I am entitled to feel frustration, because every human is entitled to feel.

Petticoat_Rule · 2015-02-02T20:12:31+00:00

Yes, entitled IS the right word to describe men who are bitter and angry toward women when they can't get sex from them.

If a man isn't bitter and angry toward women that he can't get things from, then he doesn't feel entitled.

Similarly, a woman who feels bitter and angry toward men because she can't find a good man for a LTR/marriage/to screw does that out of a feeling of entitlement. She feels entitled to such things from men. (Women in general are more likely to internalize things though and blame themselves when they can't get things they want. Not pretty enough, not thin enough etc)

Back to the topic - men. What causes men to have anger and bitterness in terms of not getting screwed/a LTR?

It's because they have a sense of entitlement to sex and a sense that someone (women, society, other men, the cosmos) has stripped them of that entitlement. They have a sense that men used to be king and women used to have to submit to men's will - they had no agency. Women having agency enrages them - hence all the putdown terms for women such as whore.

rp132 · 2015-02-03T14:49:11+00:00

I think the problem with your definition is that "effort" doesn't buy you anything.

I can put a TON of effort into making delicious pies but if I suck at cooking it doesn't matter how much effort went in, no one will buy them. That's too goddamn bad for me.

[deleted] · 2015-02-02T16:59:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	The Class Room with AFC [BP Edition]: Correct usage of the word "entitlement".
Author	AFormidableContender
Upvotes	7
Comments	164
Date	February 1, 2015 8:26 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2ufusx/the_class_room_with_afc_bp_edition_correct_usage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-class-room-with-afc-bp-edition-correct-usage.283635 https://theredarchive.com/post/283635

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