What is the difference between an idealised red pill society and...say... Dubai or Qatar?

nicethingyoucanthave · 2014-12-08T18:54:32+00:00

Force.

I would never say to a woman, "you have to behave this way." I would never say to a woman, "you must change the type of guy you're attracted to."

TRP is an attempt to figure out what women are actually attracted to - as opposed to what they are conscious of or willing to admit to - and the desire to change ourselves to exhibit those behaviors.

I have no desire at all to force a gender role on men or on women. I happen to think that feminism shames women out of the gender role that would make them the most happy. But that's not something I'm trying to fix. Women can do whatever they want.

I'm trying to understand what sorts of behaviors they respond to.

[deleted] · 2014-12-09T09:10:46+00:00

I am as blue as it gets but the comparison is silly. Women running around wearing tents, often getting fat, never flirting with men, can't see RP dreaming about this. I think RP is dreaming about the kind of idealized 1950's - 1960's Western society from James Bond movies - hot and easy going blondies all over the place, 50% into the Sexual Revolution.

sleuthoftrades · 2014-12-08T21:40:12+00:00

The traits you ascribed to Qatar aren't exclusive to that kind of culture. East Asian cultures also have similar expectations of women, as well as South Asian cultures. Having those traits in society doesn't mean that society has to become a place like Qatar.

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2014-12-08T20:45:32+00:00

There is no such thing as a red pill idealized version of anything.

TRP isn't for/against anything. It presents what it asserts are facts about men and women for people to do whatever it is that they will with.

fiat_lux_ · 2014-12-08T19:09:28+00:00

This gets brought up often. It's a criticism liberals often use against conservatism or traditionalism. "Western liberal countries/states on top! Traditional/Conservative countries/states at the bottom! Checkmate."

...

I think you have the wrong idea of what an idealized rp society is. A lot of rpers just happen to be conservative. That is merely correlative.

An idealized society for me would be a benevolent tyranny with me as a shadow leader controlling a hard-working, charismatic, puppet alpha who is given a formal leadership position that would be rotated every several years. I.e. Limited attention and responsibility for me, but enough power to implement policies congruent to my own faiths.
You guys have cause and effect reversed. As countries become more wealthy, they tend to liberalize. It's not just the neocons that say this. Liberal globalist geopolitical analysts that worked for the Obama administration have even suggested this. One of them suggested that the historical economic benchmark for democratization occurred at around 8k-15k GDP per capita. This was parroted by Zakaria (iirc, it was in one of his books on the multi-polar future).

A common sentiment I've heard from immigrants from poorer countries that had just immigrated to the US/Canada when discussing identity politics such as feminism? "Their stomachs are full and they have nothing better to complain about." People living in wealthier countries tend to have concerns higher on Maslow's hierarchy. That's why wealthier nations tend to be more bp. It's doubtful that bp-ness was the key to their success in the first place.

If you want to say that social conservatism leads to failure or weakness, then be explicit about it. The burden of proof would be on you. You'll need better than such superficial comparisons. It shouldn't be easy. There's plenty of historical examples of empires falling and coinciding with social liberalization and decadence, and I still wouldn't say that liberalism alone is the cause of such failure.

Ignatius_Oh_Reilly · 2014-12-10T01:02:39+00:00

I don't care how people other than me act until it effects me. I like being a traditional man, I like tradionally feminine women. I like tradional gender roles. If you don't that's fine. The difference is caring how relations I am not a part of are.

I also like booze, gambling, atheism, intellectual freedom.

homo_homini_lupus · 2014-12-08T19:08:04+00:00

The Red Pill is an Anglo-American reaction to Anglo American feminism, no matter who gloms onto it or what any of its users claim. No Anglo culture was EVER LIKE ARAB CULTURE. If anything, TRP wants to bring back the western rule of fathers as found at the height of rome or the Victorian era, not the rule of clans, nepotism, cousin marriage and warlords found in alien Muslim countries

FullRedvolution · 2014-12-08T20:51:55+00:00

While I think traditional Islam is ultimately an intellectually stifling way of life (notice I say way of life, and not religion, it's much more than that) it does have it's merits. I respect the fact that they pretty much have their women on lockdown and the idea of stoning women who cuckold men to death is pretty appealing.

meehan666 · 2014-12-08T21:57:51+00:00

Having done business in that part of the world, my main issue there is how tough it is to obtain top shelf liquor at a reasonable price. Also, I like cold weather and real snow.

trpthrowawaytrp · 2014-12-10T13:42:22+00:00

Choice. I believe everyone should have the freedom to choose. The Arab world certainly doesn't have that. It's just I also think people need to understand, accept and take responsibility for their choices, which is something we're lacking in the West at the moment.

Rhad42 · 2014-12-10T21:42:55+00:00

Loaded question. My IDEAL society would actually look a lot like what I imagine an anarcho-socialist feminist utopia would look like: with gender and racial equality, lots of sex, no obesity, no slut-shaming, enthusiastic consent, and all that good stuff.

The difference is that I think it's a pipe dream, a chimera. I don't think that it's possible for humans to live in such a state. I would say humans, given their natures, are in need of strong leaders, hierarchies, and traditions. That's why I am pretty much an archconservative in my social and political views.

The reason I prefer TRP is that it recognizes the truth of the human condition and seeks to work with it, as opposed to denying it like feminism does.

Title	What is the difference between an idealised red pill society and...say... Dubai or Qatar?
Author	FollowThisAdvice
Upvotes	3
Comments	96
Date	December 8, 2014 6:39 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2oo3wr/what_is_the_difference_between_an_idealised_red/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-the-difference-between-an-idealised-red.284148 https://theredarchive.com/post/284148

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