loyalty until marriage?

princess_mothra · 2023-05-28T23:41:01+00:00

This is also called circular dating. While I did not partake in this myself and probably never would have, I can admit that I see that it is extremely beneficial to women if done correctly.

youllknowwhenitstime · 2023-05-29T00:45:34+00:00

I endorse this. My husband and I weren't exclusive until we were engaged. Granted, we were wildly into each other and neither of us ACTUALLY dated someone else while dating each other, but neither of us were confused about the option being on the table. Dating exclusivity only makes sense if you're having sex - otherwise it accomplishes nothing except creating a false sense of pseudo-attachment and ensuring extra time was wasted if it doesn't work out.

Frankly, I don't understand why you would think non-exclusive dating is inherently "dishonest and disrespectful" - no one should be advocating lying about being non-exclusive! One thing to consider is that if you were celibate with your boyfriend for two years, you may need a reality check on what usually occurs when you suppress the sexual drive for so long. I don't know of any religious subculture that successfully saves sexual activity for marriage where dating, whether exclusive or not, goes on for years. In the protestant Christian world it's typically one year to engagement, one more year to the wedding, or less (again, for couples who actually wait). In the Orthodox Jewish world it's often less than six months from dating to wedding, because the Jewish wedding industry operates separately from the secular one and doesn't have such lengthy reservation timelines. The only Muslim and Catholic friends I've had weren't the chaste sort so I can't comment on their timelines.

StrangestUnicorn · 2023-05-28T23:10:11+00:00

The utility of such advice is subject to cultural norms. A devout Muslim man is very different from a secular western man, even if both can be "HVM" in their own right. The kind of women they date, the expectations they have for their relationships, and the conditions that have to be met for them to propose marriage are also different.

I have heard similar advice from other Muslims, because this approach is common in certain Muslim subcultures, where premarital sex and cohabitation is forbidden and marriage proposals happen within a year of "courting".

In western secular culture, where 3+ year long dating, cohabitation, and sex before marriage are common, such approach will, for obvious reasons, will be quite detrimental to relationship formation.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-05-28T23:26:01+00:00

So no exclusive stage between “dating non-exclusively” and “engaged”? Sounds like a great way to fumble an HVM. I would think it would be better to be clear that one is “dating with intention” and that if a proposal is not forthcoming within a reasonable (as you define it) period of time, then you will entertain other suitors/move on.

Is the point to force a proposal? What if the guy simply says “Hmm, she must not be into me”, and moves on? What if he calls the bluff? Engagements can be broken off. So either you are engaged for 5+ years (as the “Forever Fiancée” instead of the Forever Girlfriend) or you get married maybe earlier than you want to/should.

I’m just not sure how well removing the intermediate “girlfriend stage” would play out.

SunshineSundress · 2023-05-29T02:53:37+00:00

My personal take is that this strategy is fine and even preferable in the early days (dates 1-5, or around 1-2 months), but will negatively impact most serious relationships in western non-religious societies.

Dating multiple people when you’re still single allows both men and women to have a bit more of an abundance mentality, which helps them act normal and pleasant instead of letting the hamster go wild and scare off good matches. Once the relationship deepens, I find it pretty hard to wrap my head around the idea that this would be productive for most people (again, this is talking about non-religious western societies where you and the people you’re dating are open to having pre-marital sex).

I’m trying to imagine myself in his shoes: if I found out after, say, 10 months of investing in a man, opening myself up to him and becoming vulnerable with him, and integrating ourselves into each others’ social circles and family, that he was actively taking other women on dates and perhaps more (investing time, energy, and money on them, taking care of them, giving them attention, and yes sex), I would be LIVID. He would probably never see me again lol.

I wouldn’t want to do that to someone who I loved and cared about. Sure, you can have a discussion on it and it wouldn’t necessarily be cheating, but I’m not sure how it really differs that much from an open relationship. I’m not exactly sure I want to be with a man who is okay with “sharing” his woman, and I imagine that my SO has no intention of sharing himself with others as well.

At the end of the day, I think loyalty is absolutely one of the biggest traits we consider before getting to marriage, and this behavior does show a lack of that.

xcheshirecatxx · 2023-05-28T23:52:49+00:00

A hvm won't put a ring on a woman who doesn't show him enough interest to be loyal

That doesn't mean staying loyal when there's not any type of commitment, like exclusivity

AutoModerator · 2023-05-28T22:49:55+00:00

Title: loyalty until marriage?

Full text: ive been watching a femininity coach named Mina Irfan for around 4 months now, learning her tips and tricks to level up and improve myself. however, in a video she had made that i recently watched, she spoke about not being loyal to a man until proposes. she claims that “the boyfriend-girlfriend” scenario is useless and to get a HVM you must keep your options open (go on dates, meet people, etc) until he’s serious to commit to you. she claims that relationships with no set timeline are useless and putting in effort into a man thats not committed to you pulls you further from God.

she does not mean to have sex with any of these men on her roster while dating since she emphasizes the downfalls of hookup culture and is muslim. but i wonder, is this valuable advice? i’ve definitely had a scenario where my ex of 2 years had cheated on me, but dating other men while i was with him would be dishonest and disrespectful, in my opinion.

of course i have my own opinions and values that i follow, but i want to know if this is even advice to consider.

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Wolf110ci · 2023-05-29T01:01:37+00:00

This advice runs counter to what Rich Cooper advises HVM in his book The Unplugged Alpha.

may want to read that book to get a glimpse into the advice HVM are getting

One-Introduction-566 · 2023-05-29T02:29:55+00:00

I mean sure, it might benefit me but you also need more time together to discern marriage and that’s hard if dating multiple guys at once. And I doubt most guys would agree to non exclusivity for like 1+ years till proposal

flower_power_g1rl · 2023-05-29T07:45:47+00:00

I think this is a Muslim thing. The more religious ones don't date for long, nor have sex before marriage, so they get engaged early into the relationship.

Secretagenta92 · 2023-05-29T08:12:28+00:00

I agree with her another married coach spoke about it in this video https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsytpRIN_Ox/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

basedtrader_dev · 2023-05-29T09:56:17+00:00

I probably wouldn't listen to anyone who has in their title: "spiritual mentor", what a joke

Environmental_Ad5867 · 2023-05-29T10:34:30+00:00

I think in context to hers is that esp in religious Muslim communities, they tend to marry relatively early ie early commitment due to (lack of) boyfriend-girlfriend dating as it is somewhat frowned upon (pre-marital sex is a huge no-no). However in non religious communities, there isn’t such a large societal pressure to get married.

The reason for multi-dating is to prevent a scarcity mindset. I multi-dated for a bit before I met my fiancé. I did state that I wanted marriage someday but was clear that I didn’t mean it with them to whoever I was dating at that time. I didn’t explicitly said I was vetting but I knew that they knew I was as they were vetting me at the same time.

Give or take, I was dating about 5 people at any one time? Because of this I wasn’t immediately super invested in anyone and if there was an amber/red flag or incompatibilities, I could just take a step back without much drama. These men generally had HV qualities- high earning (surgeons, dental surgeons, bankers etc), family oriented, all treated me well from the start. I want a family but I was very clear that I would rather have no children than have children with a man I didn’t respect and love.

However I never mentioned the other men I was seeing because it was assumed (I assumed they were seeing other girls too). I also didn’t sleep with any of them. Personally, I think it’s a huge faux pas to even mention this to whoever you’re dating. I don’t like shit testing anyone.

Eventually I met my fiancé. He got on like fire from the start and he was the one who asked me to be exclusive after about 6 weeks. He has never asked about the others but that ambiguity also pushed him to make decisions as soon as he was ready. I made my decision around the same time.

I don’t know if I explained it very well. But what I’m trying to say it that is can work very well if you do it right as it prevents you from over-investing in a man who hasn’t shown you the right qualities. Unfortunately (or fortunately), men are the choosers/pursuers so I think a lot of women just accept the first man that ‘sort-of fits’ because they fear no one better will come around and end up in less than satisfactory relationships.

It allows you to be as objective as you can with your decision making. Though it’s all about incremental levels of commitment and consistent behaviours. I really enjoyed this way of dating because it allowed me to keep my values and be as objective as possible. Don’t fall into that trap of thinking that just because he gives you that commitment early on, he’s HVM. You need to vet too.

Title	loyalty until marriage?
Author	hadyayasmin
Upvotes	5
Comments	31
Date	May 28, 2023 10:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/13udjvk/loyalty_until_marriage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/loyalty-until-marriage.1220602 https://theredarchive.com/post/1220602

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