Charisma: Forget you exist in any interaction

TheLaughingRhino · 2016-10-31T01:44:38+00:00

During any one conversation you should aim to follow the 70/20/10 rule:

Listen 70% of the time.

Ask questions 20% of the time.

Offer small input 10% of the time.

I think this strategy can be pretty effective, but with some context. Once you've hit upon a topic where the person is interested/has some skill, then I think you can shift to this ratio.

Here's a tricky thing I've learned with conversation/interpersonal skill sets, part of the art of being a good conversationalist/active listener is to learn how to lead the conversation in a direction. Either to something you want to talk about, or something where they feel super comfortable. I have found when I have taken the subtle lead in the direction of the conversation, the quality tends to be better ( i.e. I can control the pace, the tone, the amount of humor, the amount of depth, etc)

As for folks who struggle to be more "genuine" in terms of conversation, my trick is to find something the person actually knows about ( i.e. their career or skill) and ask about it in terms of learning something new. I actually do not like most people, most people make me weary. I do LOVE to learn. I mean I love love love to learn something new. And if someone can filter down a subject to it's base points, that only makes learning easier. Plus, as a side bonus, you now have new information under which to talk about to other people later about. ( I.E. you will learn something about coin collecting or how to fix cars or some subject and it will come up later, and you have something to share with that person, or add to the conversation)

I find most people lack the skill set to hold up a 70 percent ratio with a skilled conversationalist on their own.

A good strategy to learn is to have a group conversation, where you default into the "moderator" You are asking questions of 2-3 people around you, seeking comments, giving light compliments, focusing the framework of having everyone feel connected and a part of the conversation. It is NOT EASY to informally moderate a group conversation. Most people will talk in pairs or in a pair and leave someone out.

Never talk about yourself more than is needed to give context for the other person to reveal something to you. This might roll into the "breadcrumbs" theory that Rollo Tomasi has, where the information you do occasionally give out seems like a gift of gold because they understand you don't talk much about yourself.

If ever questioned about your vagueness about yourself, simply say you wanted to focus on learning bout the other person. The other thing to say is "You seemed pretty passionate about subject X, and I was interested, so I wanted to keep learning about it"

My take is never make the learning part a secret. Esp if the person is older than you, or there is a rank issue involved in terms of hierarchy. Saying you want to learn and expressing it is a positive for you. It puts people in a teaching position, which is disarming in it's own way ( i.e. similar to asking someone for advice, that is a flattering act in itself)

If you are dealing with a woman, always end the conversation if possible by pointing out how unique she is to other women around you. I.E. "You know, most women I've met, and I've traveled all over, would not make that observation, I'm actually impressed here"

If you are dealing with a man, always shake his hand ( by extending your hand first, you almost obligating him to do the same, framing the positive nature of the conversation, even if he didn't feel that way at some point) and say you appreciate that he offered a teaching moment for you and "whenever you talk, you always learn something new from the person"

One of the easiest ways to generate comfort with someone is to push the conversation into their arena, where they have knowledge or skill ( or think they do) and you make it clear you simply are not well versed in that area ( i.e. you cannot challenge them)

A good trick I've learned is if you are going to converse with this person regularly, to make a mental note of something they brought up that you did find interesting, look it up, Google it, Wiki it, and bring it up next time.

"Last time we talked, you mentioned some quote by Yogi Berra, I thought about it that night, looked it up, and it's interesting, did you know Yogi Berra did X? "

You look like you are sharing, but you are not, not about you. You've revealed nothing except the context that the person opened up a new subject to you and you brought it back to them. This is very flattering to people.

This is a strong situation to incorporate 'touch' into conversation. I.E. when you end a conversation, if it won't be too jarring, pat the guy on the shoulder as you walk by to leave and mention you enjoyed the conversation. With a woman, I think it's far far more situational, but touch will tend to being a strong connectivity to my experience.

TL/DR - Focus on learning something new the person knows, not the person themselves. Most people are boring as fuck and can't lead a conversation. You don't learn how to be a good conversationalist/moderator/active listener by talking to a fellow one, you learn by talking to people who have no skill set at all and have no desire to, see it as pumping out a girl who is 2 just to learn how to thrust right.

One last thing, and this is the bonus round. When your conversation skills get very very very good, two things happen

You can close in any context with people where you voice is implied. Not just girls, but business, other relationships, dealing with difficult people, etc.
You appreciate meeting the very rare true "active listener", often these people can become very good friends, or if it's a woman, maybe a girl you see as a really quality potential person.

Want to know when your skills are really starting to peak? To me, the litmus is when people around you, not in the conversation, eavesdrop, and either try to enter the conversation, or ask you about it later or delay their schedule a little just to hear you keep going with your banter.

Good conversation stands out.

Good conversation projects many of the Alpha qualities that TRP talks about, even if you don't have them all, it gives general people that perception

Good conversation is the gateway to seduction. If men are about real, and women are about feel, your words can hit every trigger inside her over and over.

Counter-intuitive, making it about them, is really making it about bettering you. To me, this is the basis of appearing unselfish in these kind of interactions, the benefits hits you on the backend, without you noticing.

watchthesnails · 2016-10-30T18:21:48+00:00

Nice post OP, ties well with:

The 4th Law of Power: Always say less than necessary.

Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends And Influence People key point: Become interested in other people. (Carnegie wrote that if one was to learn just one thing from his book it better be this one thing).

As for becoming less selfish, I have found that reading stoic philosophy (Meditations by Marcus Aurelius is a good one) and meditating helps. Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRrCYPxD0I

During any one conversation you should aim to follow the 70/20/10 rule:

Listen 70% of the time.

Ask questions 20% of the time.

Offer small input 10% of the time.

like_jinkies_man · 2016-10-30T21:20:11+00:00

God, this is so spot on. I'm a bit of a closeted extrovert with bouts of extreme and successful socialization, and in a real way, I lose myself ingroup discussions. I find that my responses are spontaneous, extemporaneous, and always genuine. Still, I have trouble leaving the house. It seems my biggest approach anxiety is approaching the outside world.

Cowscomehome · 2016-10-30T20:08:54+00:00

That's great, but how? How do you turn off the monologue?

babybelly · 2016-10-31T00:50:36+00:00

Ive been living like that for about 2 years now. Feel like an air head and i don't even weed. My perception for time is also really whacky. Dont overdo nihilism guys.

Redbeam100 · 2016-10-31T15:22:35+00:00

Charisma is essentially your potential as your own leader. The more Charisma the more independent you tend to be therefore women love it.

Fort-Wahnee · 2016-10-30T20:36:09+00:00

OP how many tabs did you drop yesterday?

Ozymanberg · 2016-10-31T02:12:46+00:00

Been looking into mindfulness and staying present a lot and it has improved my interactions and game exponentially. Definitely going to try this out.

writemeoffgiveuponme · 2016-10-31T06:01:02+00:00

I was just talking to the brother in law about this. If a girl is chatting you up it's your job to not fuck it up. You do that by talking about yourself. Always redirect the conversation back to her. After all, she's her own favorite subject. Keep it light.. Keep it funny. Don't linger, Leave on a good note.

FleshFleshForFantasy · 2016-10-31T16:06:19+00:00

So if you have to make yourself "inexistant"...Does that mean that being "mindful" via meditation is not recommanded since it supposed to make yoursself fully aware in your environnement?

Just trying to understand the nuance

TooMuchToDoo · 2016-10-31T17:14:20+00:00

Back when I did sales, it was common practice in our team to talk as highly about each other as possible before bringing them out to speak. Not only does this bring credibility to your friend and make others think that he's worth his salt, but it also makes him feel like a rockstar and have good thoughts about you and your positive attitude. The concept applies outside of my practice too-- speak of your friends like they're rockstars, and they'll do the same to you.

bullmooseman · 2016-10-31T21:10:33+00:00

If you could read other people's mind, you would probably be disappointed because the sad reality is that people do not think that much about you. They are too busy thinking about themselves, worrying about what other people are thinking about them. While you are worrying about what other people are thinking of you, they are worrying about what you are thinking of them.

RPFlame · 2016-10-30T21:42:38+00:00

I wrote a post about Ego a few days ago and people attacked the definition by misinterpreting what I meant to say with what they thought I mean.

Everyone cares about nothing more than himself and getting his ideas and beliefs validated. Even if he has an advice to give that is "good for you" chances are that the moment that piece of advice turns up to work he just validated that he's right.

I'm not saying that in a bad way. But the truth is that interactions become so much better when you stop waiting for your turn to unload your bucket of thoughts. Ironically, it's better for you to not talk that much about you.

It also gives an air of mysticism around you, since the human brain just wants to fill the gaps of knowledge with whatever it finds believable, so as soon as you leave a positive momentum/impression, let it slide on its own.

newls · 2016-10-30T22:42:55+00:00

Great post. We're all guilty of overtly pushing out from our egos in conversations sometimes, but the most charismatic people rarely ever talk about themselves in conversation.

If you let someone indulge their ego in conversation, they'll often walking away feeling great about you because of it.

Kingreaper333 · 2016-10-30T23:57:43+00:00

this is straight from the chapter on charm from the art of seduction, I would recommend reading that if your interested in furthering this theory.

bullmooseman · 2016-10-31T00:11:43+00:00

Question: Does this apply to gaming women? Is'nt just asking questions and seeming really interested iin them a way to turn them off? I heard of a report that said on dates, men do better when they act aloof and shit.

Vajesticles · 2016-10-31T06:36:41+00:00

This is one of the best posts I've seen on TRP for a while.

aanarchist · 2016-10-31T09:01:35+00:00

so when i'm not in my head and actually having authentic conversation, does this mean when other people have no fucking clue what i'm talking about are socially awkward?

Entropy-7 · 2016-10-31T09:23:08+00:00

The term I use is "unselfconscious".

It's party about DNGAF but more about being comfortable in your own skin. Still, you have to learn to STFU. Other people like to hear themselves talk . . about themselves. Indulge them but don't be that person.

Eyeswears · 2016-11-06T03:12:08+00:00

I do think the ego is great for strategy but not tactics, so I partially agree. It gets in the way of carrying out the plan cooked up by the ego. At the same time, if I look back at my own personal experiences as a heavily indoctrinated BP man, I didn't like being around people who made me the center of attention. It was always the people who involved me in their lives with direction who were the most charming. I don't think you're selfish if you want to be the person who does most of the talking. Most people are completely clueless and directionless and need (not just want) someone to take the reins and lead them. I know I was. And those people didn't make my life worse. They improved it. And eventually inspired me to become a truly independent person, too.

LOST_TALE · 2016-10-30T23:45:31+00:00

''the introvert is only selfish and self absorbed: he/she is not introverted.''

op logic

Chicken_Hands · 2016-10-30T17:53:22+00:00

Like Bob said, that's not for all the time but I've myself lived some good moments with that particular frame and can guarantee these same benefits. Sometimes if you much it too far, you can later recall yourself into dumb mistakes for being talk too much.

bobsbigboi · 2016-10-30T18:18:22+00:00

I agree with you that introverts are selfish, but I disagree that zero-ego is right at all times. Yes it can be charming but it can make you fail shit-tests both from women and from men.

Title	Charisma: Forget you exist in any interaction
Author	bullmooseman
Upvotes	574
Comments	102
Date	October 30, 2016 4:36 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/5a6udl/charisma_forget_you_exist_in_any_interaction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/charisma-forget-you-exist-in-any-interaction.64077 https://theredarchive.com/post/64077

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