Keep Your Goddamn Mouth Shut!

NightwingTRP · 2015-09-16T11:00:23+00:00

If it's a group and women are present... don't bother with logic. It's irrelevant to the feels. Also, reading this, you probably came across as very cold and heavily implying that these women deserved what happened to them. (Remember, bloopers like to misinterpret us. We're all a bunch of rapists who hate women and can't get laid, remember?) You need to be VERY specific when you put forward a stance like this. So in this case you'd need to add something like a line or two about how you believe the woman didn't deserve it, nobody deserves it, but stopping police from issuing advice designed to try and prevent these awful crimes just so a victim can avoid their share of blame is not a sensible trade-off. This isn't about telling a whore she's a bad person for dressing that way (though in reality it is)... it's about accounting for the fact we don't live in a perfect world and taking some precautions to avoid harm where it can be avoided.

What they heard when they listened to you was "leaving the car door open and the keys in the ignition means it's your fault when you get it stolen. Oh and if you ever dress attractively and go for a night out drinking it's your fault when you stumble down an alley and get raped." When I read it that way even I'm starting to think it's a tad harsh. What you see as dressed like a whore and drunk, they see as a normal night out drinking being dressed nicely.

As for your own identifying the mistake, good on ya. We've all fucked up at one time or another and this one seems like a big one. Test the waters carefully and play it by ear. At the extreme end, be prepared to look for another job. However, if the subject comes up again then you should be ready to apologise. Probably say something along the lines of getting carried away and the common resistance to prevention advice really annoys you because you believe nobody should ever have to go through that and anything that will prevent sexual assault should be taken very seriously. Hopefully he'll sympathise with that and remember you're a decent guy.

Cyralea · 2015-09-16T13:46:36+00:00

The fact that women were present means that you should never have engaged in StraightTalk. Women have no capacity to speak without involving their emotions. And nothing charges up their feelings more than a discussion about rape. Their brains shut down.

Consider it a lesson learned.

razorwan · 2015-09-16T06:13:54+00:00

The past is the past* (a case where it won't tangibly affect your future as in the case of ex-CC riders)-- you made a mistake. The future is worth talking about. Learn to not talk about these things openly, as it is a gynocentric society. Even if you face the music, it's OK. We all make mistakes.

But as a forewarning let me tell you that if your coworkers do lodge any sort of complaint stemming from this incident, treat them as mechanically as you possibly can to do your job. They are not friends-- they are just coworkers. Your primary duty in the workplace is to earn money, not to make friends. If you can do so without endangering yourself (as you mistakenly did here), then it's great for workplace candor.

TheRiseAndFall · 2015-09-16T12:44:26+00:00

Women are basically children. If a child walked down a dark alley and got attacked, is it the child's fault? How can it be? One could argue that "they should have known better", but they are a child, and are still naive at heart.

Women might have more experience in the world than a typical child, but that hamster keeps cranking away at that wheel day and night. Women are not responsible for their actions because society shoulders the burden of supporting them 100%.

As a man, you are wholly responsible for all of your actions. If you attack someone, rape someone, or offend someone, you are completely responsible for your actions and must be ready to deal with the consequences. Always think before you act.

Lemoonpie · 2015-09-16T11:59:13+00:00

Feminism is the new religion, you can not argue with logic with someone else religion.

The same goes with socialism and veganism.

2015-09-16T14:51:03+00:00

I've found that whenever discussing politics, religion or sexuality it's better to never take any specific position. Always phrase things in the hypothetical, 'for the sake of argument', "I don't ~~necessarily~~ believe this point of view, but what do you think about this", etc.

Even that should be used cautiously and sparingly. There's rarely a situation where impressing someone with your intelligence and knowledge will actually help you in any way, and often it can hurt you. I've become reserved and discriminating/selective with whom I'll actually speak my mind with. Anonymous internet forums are a great place to have real discussion and get your fix.

Law 21: Play a Sucker to Catch a Sucker, Seem Dumber than your Mark

Never inadvertently insult or impugn a person's brain power.
Subliminally reassure people that they are more intelligent than you are,
Convince them that you are a bit of a moron, and you can run rings around them.
The feeling of intellectual superiority you give them will disarm their suspicion-muscles.
Given how important the idea of intelligence is to most people's vanity
Make people feel they are more sophisticated than you are and their guard will come down.

To reveal the true nature of your intelligence rarely pays; you should get in the habit of downplaying it at all times. If people inadvertently learn the truth—that you are actually much smarter than you look—they will admire you more for being discreet than for making your brilliance show. At the start of your climb to the top, of course, you cannot play too stupid: You may want to let your bosses know, in a subtle way, that you are smarter than the competition around you. As you climb the ladder, however, you should to some degree try to dampen your brilliance.

There is, however, one situation where it pays to do the opposite— when you can cover up a deception with a show of intelligence. In matters of smarts as in most things, appearances are what count. If you seem to have authority and knowledge, people will believe what you say. This can be very useful in getting you out of a scrape.

WidmerBeer · 2015-09-16T07:01:22+00:00

Yea, and people should have the right to walk into the worst areas of Detroit wearing a Klansman outfit and not expect to get violently murdered. But the realists will realize this isn't the world we live in, and taking precautionary steps will lower your chance of being a victim in almost any circumstance.

People who disagree might as well say, "Pedestrians have the right of way here in America, that means I don't have to look both ways before I cross the street!"

long-lostfriend · 2015-09-16T10:29:24+00:00

Learn from that mistake. And don't hesitate to threaten to "out" the secret atheist FB group if someone decides to start some shit about what you said.

And what the hell are you doing involving yourself with FB "atheist support groups" in the first place?

redpillcynic · 2015-09-16T14:55:52+00:00

Talking redpill straight talk in front of women is a recipe for disaster. Do you have a particular inclination for getting fired OP?

moose_war · 2015-09-16T23:06:02+00:00

There has never been a time where I argued or had a long debate with a woman where it benefited me in any way.

esco_ · 2015-09-16T07:41:39+00:00

You're a fucking moron in that example, and not just because you opened your dumb mouth. You've also internalised some bullshit you've read here (yes, not everything here is posted by people who know what the fuck they are talking about)

The vast majority of rapes are not the "stranger jumping out of bushes rape" that you talked about. Most rapes are perpetrated by people well known to the victim.

If you parked your car in your buddy's garage, and left it on, with the door open, etc etc, and he then steals it, are you to blame? Not really... he was a trusted friend and you had no reason to suspect he was a theiving scumbag.

Your analogy just works against your own argument when applied to the vast majority of rapes.

xorchids · 2015-09-16T06:19:09+00:00

You need to learn where you can talk about things and where you cannot.

According to your logic, if you get a complaint (which you might, lots of employers consider facebook fair game) you had your right, but it's partially your fault if you get in trouble.

Good luck, maybe you'll learn to find the proper outlet for your thoughts.

BeamMeUpScarlett · 2015-09-16T06:18:32+00:00

My father knows how I really feel. I know he wants to know me, so I don't hide from him when he tries to understand me. That's actually it, though. A few of my close friends who know me very well have a general idea, but only peripherally. As you said.. these aren't conversations that you need to have. Unless a close friend is on the verge of ruining his life over some broad and he needs some dead serious advice, just keep your fucking mouth shut. There's no point, just worry about yourself. I think TRP is something you have to find on your own, and for your own reasons, to ever actually understand and accept it in a way that makes you stronger

BobBobCan · 2015-09-16T12:45:21+00:00

I believe we have all done this kind of mistake. I certainly have. Realize that people are defensive and hence are resistive to logical arguments. Not just women but men too. Tell people what they want to hear to get them to like you and lower their resistances. Now it becomes easier to operate. In general you should preach through actions, insuinations and let other connect the dots and see the truth.

GrandmasterHurricane · 2015-09-16T13:01:40+00:00

Keep work at work and your personal life outside of work. The people you see at work, you'll see them all the time. They will talk about you behind your back. They will get familiar with you. The last thing you want is for these people to affect your means of getting paid.

blkbullmentor · 2015-09-16T19:38:56+00:00

Bitches and bullshit need to be called out. That's the problem with this country. We're a bunch of pussies who are afraid of offending someone.

I say keep calling out bullshit when you see it & let the chips fall where they may. You'll be respected for it in the end.

Men need to act like men. Not pussy ass bitches.

BlackHeart89 · 2015-09-16T17:56:30+00:00

Lmao! Brooooo! Noooo!

Logic doesn't work when you're speaking to women about controversial shit like that. Nooooo! You can't blame women for shit unless its already socially accepted by the masses.

I'm sure the men thought it about it some probably agreed. But the women... no way in hell.

Sdom1 · 2015-09-16T18:30:30+00:00

The mistake pretty much everyone makes when it comes to this is that you've conflated two entirely different issues. They relate to the same situation, but are totally separate. Note, my hypotheticals assume a rape has been committed.

The first is who bears responsibility for the rape. This is always, always, always the rapist. The reason for this is that the act of rape is wrong in and of itself, malum in se is the legal term. Every sane, reasonable person knows rape is wrong and why. Basically, some things are wrong enough that you bear all responsibility for your actions no matter what your motivation or temptations were. It would be like a guy on trial for murdering someone for their shoes and saying that they shouldn't have worn those shoes around him if they didn't want to be murdered. They should have known those shoes are hot enough to be killed for. It's absurd, right? Right.

The other issue is whether it was prudent for the victim to put his or herself in the position to be raped/robbed/murdered/whatever. It's a separate issue that people, in the past, have used to transfer the responsibility for the act from the perpetrator to the victim. Now, it goes the other way - because it's always the perpetrator's fault, girls are being told that, since they aren't responsible for being raped, that they should behave imprudently. This is incorrect, as they can lower their chances of being raped by observing certain safety protocols. Again, prudence and responsibility - two different issues.

Philhelm · 2015-09-16T20:01:34+00:00

You should have doubled-down and stated that if a dead, handcuffed hooker jumps into the open trunk of your tinted-windowed, nondescript car, she bears some of the responsibility.

herewehoagain · 2015-09-16T21:00:16+00:00

Here's my attempt at adding an undiscussed component: we were all raised to believe in equality. We realize that's bs with regards to gender. Where I think assumptions are still made is with regards to intelligence. You're in a room full of spoon fed dolts. You cannot expect even the men to follow your logic fully, because by the end you'll be asking them why they water plants with Brawndo and they'll tell you it's because it's what plants crave. The average person is far from self-actualized, and the denial of their loser status is too powerful.

Claude_Reborn · 2015-09-17T01:04:10+00:00

Yeah the Atheism got co opted by the SJW/ feminist crowd ages ago.

So the only religion you can't discuss is feminism.

WhiskeyGrin · 2015-09-17T14:54:49+00:00

Anyone know any good exercises for training yourself to shut the fuck up?

sardinemanR · 2015-09-16T15:47:50+00:00

Your problem is you think you are a lot more intelligent than you really are.

What you did was stupid and you don't actually have any logic and reason in it at all either. You just went with male feelz and got caught up in it.

At least you learned the lesson to keep your mouth shut. And if you can't keep your mouth shut, at least have things researched and be a master of the material. You're trying to brag about being atheist and finding contradictions in the Bible, in that case you should have been able to illustrate your point using the Bible. That way you also have your out if things become heated "Hey don't shoot the messenger here, these aren't MY words and thoughts!"

nantucketghost · 2015-09-16T11:22:13+00:00

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laere · 2015-09-16T13:16:45+00:00

This is something I had to learn over time OP. I have been called a sexist at work before, pre-TRP, just because I couldn't shut my mouth. Everyone at my workplace, and I mean everyone, voices their opinions on Trump, Obama, people out of college not finding jobs, abortion, etc.

I've learned to either just walk away from conversations, or just not participate.

You're never going to change anyone's opinion, so why waste the energy. That's my approach to it.

HappyScribe · 2015-09-16T13:56:46+00:00

In arguments, always take a step back and ask what your overall objective is. When being introduced to a group, they're testing you to see if you fit in. When you're at work, you need to think about the correct way to do something, but also office politics. It's not always about winning the argument and proving you're right. Sometimes you'll want to lose an argument, just to keep in with the right crowd, or to boost someone up.

In this case you brought logic and reason to a hug fest. Don't do that.

CuntyMcFagNuts69 · 2015-09-16T16:13:18+00:00

I view my vocabulary like my cell phone storage now. My phone has limited storage for music. In the past I had a huge fucking iPod and it had over 20k songs. Sure it held that much but I never listened to more than 200 of the songs. Now I have a phone with small storage and can only put the songs on I can.

Stupid metaphor but although you may have a million things to talk about, pick and choose wisely.

exarkun007 · 2015-09-16T16:41:30+00:00

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7QNw1LRJv4

RedPillMat · 2015-09-16T21:31:13+00:00

This is one spot where I can never really relate. I've usually always gotten people, including women, to agree with me when it comes to things of logic. Maybe it has to do that the women I bother to talk to stuff like this with (the uglier ones) want to sleep with me so their shields are down and they nod to anything I'll say

What I'm getting at though is, the only time you should talk the way you did is in a group that highly values your opinion and sees you as someone intelligent. Otherwise, they will assume you're full of shit if you say contraversial stuff. You don't open up until you're viewed as an alpha already i ntheir minds, then they will be receptive.

accidentalredpill · 2015-09-16T21:41:45+00:00

Just to add a little more intuition about feeling out a situation... apparently you didn't realize that most atheists are very liberal? We've had our asses handed to us for decades by the evangelical christian wing of the republican party, and as a result many have run literally as far as they can into left wing territory. Unfortunately this also may include feminism. However, I also philosophically disagree with your point (although I wouldn't be "offended" by it like these people were) that it's the woman's fault that she got raped by walking down the alley drunk. You could apply this logic to everything in life - it's my fault I got into a car accident and died when a guy merged INTO my car, because if I had been going slower I would have had time to slam on my brakes and avoid the collision. Clearly the fault is the guy who merged right into me. If I take out my cell phone in a so-so part of the city in broad daylight, there is a chance someone will run by and snatch it. Is it really my fault my phone got stolen simply for taking it out to check directions? Clearly the fault lies with the perpetrator of these events, although nothing occurs in a vacuum and clearly our own behaviors contribute to it. This fact is not worth passionately arguing for "fault" and certainly not about a topic that many find offensive

-Quotidian · 2015-09-16T23:41:28+00:00

If you guys need an actual rule of thumb, I'd go with this: around women, know that they can lose their shit and potentially make life miserable if you speak the truth. Around men, know that they can get super uncomfortable or confrontational if you say something they disagree with. Both genders can irrationally single out one metaphor or component of your argument and take it personally.

So keep your mouth shut. Feel free to express RP ideas without RP terminology, in small doses, but know that not only do many people not get it, they don't want to.

I saw a guy break down and cry after ranting at a group of four terrified girls in front of a psychology class, in the middle of the day, for daring to say that boys benefitted from having fathers. Why? This kid grew up with a single mom and took everything personally. He looked and acted more-or-less normal until this point, if a bit dickish, but this came out of left field for a lot of people. The professor--an old man--looked super uncomfortable, but all the guys got up and left with half of the chicks. The remaining chicks stayed with the professor to comfort the now-sobbing boy with dad issues.

You never know someone as well as you think you do. Ever.

A_Becker · 2015-09-17T01:19:48+00:00

"If I left my car running, parked on the street, door wide open, and I walked away, I'm at least partially at fault for it being stolen (credit: Tom Leykis). Yes, within the law, I have that right, but I'm a fucking schmuck if I do it. Everyone agreed."

"If you get in an argument with blind, blue-pillers and feminists about feminism and the true nature of the world, then you are asking for backlash."

Just saying. Regardless, I agree with your sentiment, but I won't keep my mouth shut for some feminists pleasure and well-being.

Good luck with your job, my friend.

Peow_peow · 2015-09-17T01:21:18+00:00

Theres a term in psychology for this. It's when a member of the group brings up something that everyone in the group subconciously knows, but because it goes against the "social image" of the group, the person who brings it up is made out as the bad guy.

suuupreddit · 2015-09-17T01:58:52+00:00

Phrasing and presentation, goddamnit. You got them to agree with you twice on similar topics, your last one should have simply been, "so why is it that the victim can be partially at fault for getting robbery or physical assault, but not at all for sexual assault?"

redzorp · 2015-09-17T02:08:33+00:00

Been there. Done that. Learned my lesson. Seems you have too, so don't be too hard on yourself. Just never do it again!

Discuss stuff like this with like-minded friends. And if you really have an urge to "change hearts and minds" then blog anonymously on the web.

hirjd · 2015-09-17T03:13:35+00:00

Your car example... I would prefer to fix society. In the Jamestown settlement they'd kill you for stealing an ear of corn. So be it. I'm tired of tripping over my god damn bike that should be able to be left outside in the shade. I want to see police stings where they leave an SLR in the passenger seat of a car with the window rolled down. Your group is fundamentally right about the woman's safety.

AmericanHistoryAFBB · 2015-09-17T04:48:29+00:00

Brad Pitt put it best, with the number 1 rule of Fight Club: "Don't talk about fight club."

I've been hanging around heavy christian circles too and can relate to your frustration.

ThePedanticF0x · 2015-09-17T12:01:51+00:00

You've made you stance clear, and it opposes the social hive mind. The worst thing you could possibly do right now is back down. Do not back down. Refuse to entertain the subject any further, but do not recant or backpedal.

harkrank · 2015-09-17T17:18:21+00:00

Here's the deal regarding sensitive topics:

Most plugged-in people (westerners / blue pillers / protestants, whatever you'll call them) are accustomed to thread carefully around topics that might be sensitive, and they are used to everybody else doing the same. That means if you say something you really mean, then it will be interpreted as you actually meaning something more extreme.

Unfortunately this is how it is. If you want to speak your mind and have it interpreted as nothing more and nothing less you have to talk to people in a culture where that is the case. I don't remember what the scientific terms are, but some cultures are direct with simple communication and some cultures are subtle and information cannot be gained much from what is said but what is not said and what is implied. See if you find a group that doesn't deviate too much from your style of communication.

Remember: Betas need to be gamed just like women, you cannot reason with logic with them when it comes to perspective on reality and life. "Sexual assault" and such topics can be used for light-hearted joking if the group and mood is such, like you ending your analogy with "If I get sloppy drunk and dressed like a whore walking down a dark ally, I'd probably get raped". If the group is dead serious (why the fuck are you with them), then do as you said and keep your mouth shut, let some other guy paint himself into a corner, show with facial expressions your disinterest in the discussion and rudely start a conversation with somebody about something else on the sidelines.

bigcitytruth · 2015-09-16T15:59:36+00:00

You're being too myopic. Take a step back. This is about learning social skills.

There are some topics that you simply avoid with small talk. Religion and politics. And for god's sake rape as well. This is not about the rape scenario you mentioned, this is about your utter lack of awareness of how social interactions work.

Let me give you an example. Let's say a family member recently died. You just met a new hot woman while out on the town. She'll ask, "How was your week?" Do you tell the truth, "My uncle died of cancer." Or do you say, "It was great, I had a blast with my buddies!" This isn't rocket science.

Are you and your friends going down a dark topical rabbit hole and you feel trapped? Control the situation. It's more than okay to interrupt and say, "Hey wait, wait -- look guys, let's change the topic. How about them Mets, they're actually doing okay!" You'll get a laugh and you won't be trapped in an unwinnable scenario.

SinisterSinistro · 2015-09-16T21:05:45+00:00

You are an idiot. If you ever happen to find yourself in a similar situation remember what happened to the kid that pointed out that the emperor had no clothes, the kid was drawn, quartered and had his head chopped off and sent back to his folks with the tongue cut out.

Do not be that little boy, be the tailor that sells the emperor "invisible clothes".

maxrp · 2015-09-16T11:44:42+00:00

Funny story I imagine your well reasoned logic went down like a blasphemous lead balloon.

No one agreed. Least of all, two women.

Because they knew the pecking order and they are subservient to the women, they wanted to agree but all hell would have broken lose with the women and risk the pecking order and their little club having major fall out.

People don't want to hear the horrible truth. They only hear what they fear.

Banana_Club_Alcudia · 2015-09-16T23:49:18+00:00

I've made this mistake recently. A month and a half ago, I was in Scotland in the car with my parents and my sister. We were driving to a small town for my dad's friend's wedding. To clarify: he is 53 and married a postwall HB5. They had been together for about eight years and already had two kids, but they had held off on marriage. She also had a 22 year old daughter from a previous marriage. Without stating the source or using RP terminology, I dropped some red pill material on my family. I said that the woman basically struck the lottery, as she found a guy to take care of her and her daughter (he's a petroleum engineer and makes good money, she doesn't even have a college degree), and she's got the rest of her life set. My mom and dad started rationalizing it, saying that he's super happy and that she's truly "the one" (dad's friend's been divorced before). I made the mistake of mentioning that "the one" is bullshit and that all those mushy love feelings fade away within a few years at most. I mentioned that I want to be a successful aeronautical engineer myself and I don't want to be a throw away my success by being a provider myself. My parents jumped to the usual "you're young, you don't know yet, someday you'll meet a girl that'll make you happy." At that point I knew I couldn't win this argument, and I just stopped talking.

TruckerJohn · 2015-09-17T16:50:13+00:00

Are you doing that thing where you have opinions again? Stop thinking, silly.

SoCalifornia · 2015-09-16T13:01:46+00:00

OP do you wear a fedora by chance?

Cringe worthy levels of edgy atheism in your post. Seek help.

zudomo · 2015-09-16T16:04:14+00:00

The problem with your thought process is why does the clothing make a difference. vs the mugging.

The only difference in your mugged or raped story is the clothes of the person.

Mugger doesn't turn into a rapist. He was already willing to go there.

I'm also not a fan of "Partial blame" for a majority of crimes. If I don't lock my door. Why should I be blamed for some other guy coming where he shouldn't belong and taking what doesn't belong to him.

We take those precautions because there are assholes out there. But fuck saying we deserved to get robbed because we didn't do enough to prevent it. They fuckin shouldn't be doing it. If that's the case, it shouldn't be theft or illegal if the doors unlocked. or if you're drunk you give up all rights and protections against law.

Bad people do bad things.

But its easier for people to want to believe we have 100% control of lives or karma fuckin exits.

tomysotomayorfuxboys · 2015-09-16T06:28:22+00:00

I don't support that blaming the victim shit. Also women don't usually get raped by random stranger creeps jumping out of alleys and bushes. They typically get raped by the football players or frat boys they know when they're passed out drunk at house parties.

Title	Keep Your Goddamn Mouth Shut!
Author	batfish55
Upvotes	136
Comments	97
Date	September 16, 2015 5:27 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3l4xa2/keep_your_goddamn_mouth_shut/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/keep-your-goddamn-mouth-shut.36455 https://theredarchive.com/post/36455

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