Understanding "Alpha Fucks; Beta Bucks"

SilverGryphon · 2017-09-16T05:53:24+00:00

you can be a sexually attractive man ("alpha") only to have your partner cheat on you for a more sexually attractive man than you ("alpha")

It can't be emphasized enough that she is never yours, it's only your turn.

stephcurrythrowaway · 2017-09-16T07:55:33+00:00

I remember recognizing this phenomenon slightly at a young age. I saw men who got loved for being a sucker/simp and I saw men who got loved for being an alpha.

My goal was then to somehow and become the ultimate in between guy of both. I'll simp when needed and act alpha when needed.

Didn't work one bit.

DentyneWhite · 2017-09-16T11:17:49+00:00

Not a bad place to add thst every woman will tirelessly work to convert any "Alpha" in her life to "Betas"

That's how important the provisional aspect of a mans sexual strategy is to her.

I have a long term plate who recently started asking me about my finances. She also has been inviting me to lunches and films (non sexual meet ups).

I'm fully aware what is going on and since I don't want a relationship thats non sexual I just keep declining.

Just a matter of time til she fears me slipping away

"That conceited asshole wont hang out with me unless sex is on the table? Ill show him, I'll give him the fuck of his life AND pay for everything too!"

DarkRenaissance · 2017-09-16T06:33:58+00:00

Bang on, thought the same thing when I read MattyAnon's comment. This reminded me of mods saying long ago that upvotes do not matter, the red pill sub operates as a patriarchal meritocracy, not democracy. Problems occur because the sub is operating on a democratic platform. Hope the mods post this as an announcement.

MrWisdom39 · 2017-09-16T06:15:13+00:00

A girl not wanting to fuck you on the moment does not make you a "beta bucks", irrespective of your attractiveness. Agreeing to provide her with your wealth and attention in a sexually committed relationship does.

Well said Op, this will help me in the future

uebermacht · 2017-09-16T08:54:22+00:00

So, monogamous LTRs with women are useless?

anrii188 · 2017-09-16T13:16:26+00:00

Thanks for the explanation, i always hated the "alpha=macho" definition, that clarify things in my head. But i have a question : Have women with sexual morality disappered from the face of the earth? I mean women like 60 years ago would set for one partner (generally by marriage) who is the "alpha" and the "beta" of her life, he is her sexual partner that she doesn't betray and the provider for her and her kids, generally speaking. But now seems like things have gone berserk. There is no trust between partners anymore. Each one is expecting or fearful to be stabbed in the back :/ Also we're seeing conflicts between genders with the rise of feminism, MGTOW and so on. What crosses my mind now is "Alpha fucks a lot of chicks" but "Alpha fucks up the society with them" as he can destroy good relationships and women become more greedy and adventerous. The same goes the other way of course. What do you think?

88Will88 · 2017-09-17T03:11:28+00:00

This is a solid look at a poorly understood topic. One issue which is implied by this discussion but not opened up here or in the original post is the "purple" belief systems. In the original post, the OP talk about being cheated on or the termination of an LTR. He then makes some assumptions which are correct at a surface level but also based on some purple logic. The purple logic is that humans are monogamous and that there is such a thing as a the disney happily ever after relationship.

The false assumption is that if you are alpha as fuck you can have a permanent and happy relationship. This is trying to achieve a blue pill goal using red pill methodology. Whilst people continue to cling to this blue pill dream of a perfect LTR which never ends, they will continue to apply erroneous beliefs about what men can do with red pill practices. TRP is sexual strategy mixed in with understanding of female sexual strategy, throw in some men's rights and seasoned liberally with some misogyny.

Ar the end of the day the original idea about "red pill" is seeing reality through the illusion. This illusion includes false goals such as happily ever after. The AF: BB acronym is a useful learning tool but it is limited and it is (like most red pill teachings) training wheels for betas. Until people can unlearn that disney bullshit, they will not see reality, they will continue to swim in a blue pill pond using red pill flippers and snorkel. Really who wants just one woman for life? I would rather have many, many different relationships.

sqerl · 2017-09-16T13:23:54+00:00

What's wrong is /u/JustHornyLoser 's argument being that the branch swinging act does not mean that guy #1 has suddenly become a "beta bucks". Except he kinda did, since the thought experiment was that guy #1 was a "boyfriend of 1.5 years" and therefore committed to providing. EC /u/MattyAnon pointed it out clearly but he got only 14 points for this..

And once again, science to the rescue!!

Here's an article which talks about a woman's fading desire after about 1.5 years (LTR).
Basic tl;dr if article: chicks loose interest in sex because you're just a boring provider and her hypergamous nature needs alpha cock.

All the betas that try to implement TRP without really swallowing the pill will only find themselves butt hurt again. Cause once they get the girl, they relax, and stop gaming/leading/stimulating. Nevermind the more you do, the more they get used to, so you must keep doing more. That's why marriage is life on hard mode.

Anyway, the article offers the most laughable solutions which is why she lost interest in the first place.

segagaga · 2017-09-16T09:49:26+00:00

It's worth emphasising, as you said, that technically alpha doesn't exist in men. It's not genetics, it's not an intrinsic worth, It is how any woman views a male at a given time and thus is entirely fluid and often inconsistent, as you pointed out.

Don't believe in Alphas, because it is something that women believe in. Every man has the capability and capacity to become an Alpha to some woman at some point if he simply works on himself. Never let yourself be trapped into the female notion that you can be born Beta and thus forever unworthy. Women do not understand at the most basic level that being in a state that gives an impression of Alpha takes work, takes trial&error, takes timing and effort. The Awakened man understands that all these aspects that makes a man "Alpha" or "Beta" are fluid and changeable.

Alpha and Beta should only be discussed in the context of what they are, the product of a woman's hamstering. AF/BB is a thought concept that helps us to understand a female's sexually-driven decisions. Men are not actually team A or B.

(Great post OP, this sub needs a shakedown from time to time)

SpaceViolet · 2017-09-16T13:21:57+00:00

Just spin plates.

If you never commit to one girl (thereby allowing one woman to monopolize your time and resources) then it is logically impossible to get beta bux'd.

Trash her ass when she starts to try and shoulder her way into relegating you to the "provider" position.

Fuck you, bitch. There are many more like you and better than you (abundance mentality).

Hltchens · 2017-09-16T08:28:24+00:00

"The weak are meat, and the strong do eat. "

PantsonFire1234 · 2017-09-16T20:40:59+00:00

You already eluded to it OP but your post and that of the other guy are pretty much arguing the same point to a degree. And to bring this to light you could make another thought experiment where you are the better alpha (fitter, better genes, higher smv, bigger dick) and she'd still cheat with another guy.

The point here is that yes women think in terms of AF/BB, but they aren't running off some one line script like a computer from the 50s. Sometimes different is just enough, sometimes they are just bored or mad. Even if you are the better man in reality, a woman can always hamster things upside down if it serves her in the moment. You maybe had a fight or she's suspected you cheated. Perhaps she is drunk with girlfriends and they are all getting some and she wants to get some to. Her boyfriend ain't there and everyone in the club isn't really better than him. But hey this guy sort of looks like that dude from Twillight, she liked Twillight. Weeee, hamster activated.

The point is that EVERYTHING about the manosphere bottles down to men trying to come to terms with modern western women behaving like absolute cunts. And no I'm not in the anger phase. I'm stating that no matter what you do, how you win at the SMV game or out alpha everyone. Your girl will still cheat, because she can and her life revolves around her.

For us men we feel powerless in some ways and the manosphere is an effort to regain control. And yet we can't, there's absolutely nothing we can do at this moment to keep a girl from fucking us over.

Roaring40sUK · 2017-09-18T09:09:48+00:00

A girl not wanting to fuck you on the moment does not make you a "beta bucks"

In fact, you could be the AF in her eyes, but if she is looking longer term for a BB, she could dump you, when the right BB comes along..

This has happened to me - "I want more than this", only to have her come back 6 months later "He was too nice"..

LiveAFTSOV · 2017-09-16T08:51:24+00:00

Great write up, but I have questions:

other side, she is willing to exchange sex for providing (and the insurance of future continued provision) from a not-necessarily-attractive man.

How can one tell which side of their strategy they fall under?

you are in the real risk of seeing her genuine sexual interest in you wane eventually to be replaced by a "unwilling-sex-against-continuation-of-providing" type of contract.

How do you ensure this type of contract is avoided?

Is it possible to avoid such a contract if in a FWB situation?

If you are in a committed relationship with a woman, you qualify for the term.

What is commitment? You commit to a FWB, surely, or what about if you have a "girlfriend", but you still date other women and they know? Is that a commitment?

Hope to get further insight

Shakydrummer · 2017-09-17T00:15:54+00:00

Don't just bring her into your frame, become the frame.

yallapapi · 2017-09-17T07:55:31+00:00

A better way to state this would be that af/Bb is not an attribute but a state. It's temporary and can be gained and lost in an instant, like being hot or cold

NegusaNagast · 2017-09-18T06:09:54+00:00

THE ONLY WAY TO ALPHA IS TO TRACK ME DOWN AND LICK MY BALLS

Luckyluke23 · 2017-09-19T07:18:25+00:00

well this post just fucking blew my mind!

so what you are saying is: you can only be YOURSELF at all times. there is no " becoming alpha".. she chooses in the moment whether you are alpha or not.

there for, you can only be yourself.

syf3r · 2017-09-19T07:53:34+00:00

posts like this reminds me why trp should never be democratic and why reddit is not the best platform unless posts are heavily checked.

thanks for the clarification. I admit that I too had an incorrect understanding of afbb, and I suspect that a lot of it stems out from reading posts with incorrect usage of it.

Original_Dankster · 2017-09-19T15:24:26+00:00

I use two concepts to help me understand the phenomenon.

First is the situational alpha

A bodybuilding DJ at the club, with solid frame is describable as alpha... When he's in his element. But put that guy on a wilderness vacation and the fit lean guide who knows the area, how to white water raft, etc. Now who's the AMOG?

Put either of those guys in a house party, along with the funniest, most gregarious conversationalist, and depending on how the conversion goes, the role of the AMOG will shift. Talk about fitness? Bodybuilder. Vacation tales? The guide. Swapping funny stories? The gregarious guy.

The second concept is that any aspiring AMOG should choose the group carefully

If I'm not AMOG, I don't act alpha. In my professional circles, I'm feared and respected. I'll AMOG there. But a pickup game of floor hockey? Yeah not so much. I seek out situations and groups where my aptitudes naturally elevate me to a leadership position.

If I can't be a leader in that situation, I either put in my time and improve my aptitudes and status through effort, or I find a new group / social environment.

Food for thought.

BigMattyMcDaddy · 2017-09-16T11:23:14+00:00

I'm grateful for this post because it clearly defines beta bucks as $, when some of the other examples in this forum equate it to being bucked off the horse. My understanding of the concept just increased because I can now associate it better with the provider role of the perceived beta.

clme · 2017-09-16T11:59:59+00:00

Your description of BB is clear for the case of a boyfriend who supports financially and otherwise the girlfriend. But what about the case where the two live separately and when they go out or travelling they share expenses 50/50? Can you still say boyfriend = provider = BB?

sonder_one · 2017-09-16T14:25:18+00:00

Women act according to their perception, which is usually far away from reality. They are intensely emotional, hormonal, insecure, irrational creatures. Otherwise known as children.

Learning to manipulate their emotions to your advantage is something you need to do, at least sometimes, to get what you want in life, but you can't manipulate every woman at every moment, so when you don't, remember how little her perception has to do with your actual value.

Boy2Mann · 2017-09-16T15:01:08+00:00

Thanks for this.This has been a hot topic floating around here for the last couple of days, great to see an elder stepping in and clarifying things. Alot of people need it since reading the sidebar and top posts is just too hard for the average manic adhd babies of today.

(Edit: Upon reading i was reminded of the contextual element of Alpha as well as the inevitable fact of betadom from monogamy.

Turns out i'm a hyper baby as well.)

max_peenor · 2017-09-16T15:01:19+00:00

A girl not wanting to fuck you on the moment does not make you a "beta bucks", irrespective of your attractiveness. Agreeing to provide her with your wealth and attention in a sexually committed relationship does.

Yup. That was a major point of The King Arthur Speech post. The problem wasn't what Legal Cohabiting Female did. It was what I did and didn't do.

MisterKissBang · 2017-09-18T12:19:53+00:00

The terms Alpha/Beta seem obsolete to me.

If you're saying someone is alpha, what does it mean? Are you saying they have alpha personality traits? Are you saying their are alpha in a particular social context?

Too confusing.

When talking about personality, I think we should call people with descriptive adjectives:
-Dominant VS submissive
-Outspoken VS reserved
-Confident VS insecure
-etc

When looking at a person within a social context, we should qualify their position:
-Central VS marginal
-Leader VS follower
-Influential VS Insignificant
-etc

And finally, we It's confusing on many levels:

It suggests it's all genetics
It suggests it's a universal status
Etc

And finally, in the context of female perception, it would be more clear to use provider instead of Beta Bucks.

I just can't come up with a good term for Alpha Fucks.

SocietalEngineering · 2017-09-16T15:57:41+00:00

You are taking a very simple concept and turning it into something more accurate yet too complex.

Keep it simple, stupid.

Be alpha.

AlexWuzHere · 2017-09-16T14:36:38+00:00

Upvoted. Saved. This is fucking brilliant! Never really considered the power of context/situation before, but it makes a lot of sense, particularly for guys who aren't physically the most "alpha" in the room. I like how you changed around the different alpha dudes into different situations to demonstrate how their SMV/alpha status changes with the setting.

Follow up question: does this mean you should try to find a place where you can safely assume the role of alpha? For example, the doctor should spend more time trying to get with the nurses at his job than the women at a bar and the band member should pretty much only be seriously looking around for women at his gigs because it would take significantly less effort for him to find one there than on the street.

WerewolfofWS · 2017-09-16T14:13:26+00:00

The whole Alpha/Beta shit is tiring.

An example of the irrationality: A wall street banker that makes millions per year and has access to top shelf pussy through hookers (not to mention, not having to deal with women's shit) isn't Alpha because he has to pay for it.

steelerfaninperu · 2017-09-16T11:56:58+00:00

I lament that I only have one upvote to give. Well explained.

Velebit · 2017-09-16T17:36:29+00:00

The problem with this, is that it's basically a 2nd lvl mgtow kinda thinking. Most men, even on this subreddit will say no thank you to that.

Humans are a predator K selected species and what you are implying with this logic is that we are basically r selected like pray species. Sexual strategy for most men, even in this skewed sample which is your audience never meant having scores of sexual partners but rather finding a stable fulfilling relations that is not basically walking on eggshells of your own alphaness being constantly measured and evaluated and one misstep away from her monkeybranching onto someone else or just straight out dumping you.

People are here for various reasons and it's not your or anyone's job to "school" them on what they should want. You preaching nihilism and absurdism and short-term egotripping hedonism of just adding numbers to notches will appeal to a lot of guys. Certainly me when I was a teenager but after a while it's merely exhausting. For most men after they figure out they can actually get laid if they put in the work, say the right words in the right sequence and dismiss a shit test here and there they can penentrate her.

However sex is not merely an error of evolution and a sensory cheat to be exploited while competing with every other man on the number of them to rub your ego. That is pathetic. More can be achieved. What more? Reproduction is about evolution. That is why we have two sexes. What evolution? Going beyond what you would describe as "human nature" but is, in fact, merely r selected sexual behavior.

The goal is to find genes worthy of mixing your with them and psychology that will support the offspring. Being promiscous in a sterile way is just jerking off your ego providing false rewards for a very high price, especially for guys who are not naturals in it (facial structure, testosterone levels, hair quality, height, extraversion, quality examples of male to female relationships in the family, reading body language and being a quick conversational thinker or naturally funny).

mental_models · 2017-09-16T17:38:57+00:00

Man's perspective: Abundance-related-issues.

Individual outcomes should not be over-valued

If a woman chooses a different guy = on to the next one. Maybe run a 'post-mortem analysis'(or manosphere equivalent), where you RATIONALLY(not emotionally) look at what just transpired and whether there is anything that you can improve, or use to your future benefit.

In the case of the 1.5year LTR, maybe he didn't keep enough options open to shrug it off? Maybe he slipped into a oneitis frame? Or maybe that individual outcome was not positive, and he's a monster TRP operating at a high level with a great 'long game' who understands that no one has a 100% success rate.

conceitedshallowfuck · 2017-09-16T18:28:36+00:00

Very good read, absolutely redefined alpha/beta for me. Thank you

Understanding "Alpha Fucks; Beta Bucks"

Intro

Let's try to clear that up.

The most important lessons to learn from the concept.

TL;DR

Comments

Title	Understanding "Alpha Fucks; Beta Bucks"
Author	Auvergnat
Upvotes	500
Comments	151
Date	September 16, 2017 5:27 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/70f89a/understanding_alpha_fucks_beta_bucks/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/understanding-alpha-fucks-beta-bucks.46027 https://theredarchive.com/post/46027