Just do it already

kmoore-65 · 2019-10-06T08:40:06+00:00

I'm 20M and never been on a date before. Met this girl last week, asked her out, we went to dinner at 7pm and we finally went home at 4am. Literally just...

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Not particularly, no. But a lot of it is anxiety, being nervous, or insecurities/self-esteem, and if it isn't, that seems like a social skills issue.

I'm saying don't treat your date like a date, even if thats exactly what it is. You're on that date to learn more about someone and about who they are and what they do, not to put on persona or change the way you act or be worried about yourself and how you look, how you're talking, or their opinion of you (at least until you continue with more dates or not, bleh).

Treat the person as you treat a stranger that you're having a conversation and experience with, because that's exactly what they are.

Now how to do all that? Practice is one of course, you can always just correlate how you act/hang out with your friends compared to how you're acting on dates, and work on bringing that side of you out whilst you're in the process of learning and experiencing the dating scene.

Question your own actions and think about whether certain things are appropriate/friendly, and single out those attributes. Show the basis of yourself, then become more intricate with it if it seems to be going smoothly.

If you don't even feel comfortable talking to girls, that's kinda a bias thing. I remember someone saying to pretty much just treat them like a human being, not like a girl or a guy, or anything inbetween.

Sorry if my first comment was vague and watered down. I hope this helped express my opinion/personal ways of dealing with it <3

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I don't think it's the date that he did "right", it's picking the girl to go on the date with where he was successful.

Trust me, if I'm on a date with a guy and I really like him, he can make as many mistakes as he needs (as long as he doesn't really cross any major lines). He's already won me over and this is just the dance for the sake of dancing. If he fucks up his foot work its just a cute mistake I can point out, tease him about, then we can keep dancing.

Whereas if a guy is on ice, every little slip up matters. He has to really work to get my attention. I have learnt to avoid going on dates unless it's an absolute yes.

I think in the case of this guy she had probably already made up her mind she liked him, so it isn't such a surprise. And it isn't really a statistical anomaly when you take that into account.

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[–]sexually_available 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't know about jawlines lol, a guy can have a beautiful jawline but still not be that attractive... You're right though, if I'm not super physically attracted to someone then it's more difficult. But then, yeah, being good looking is not enough for me still, or like, it's important but just as in important as a whole lot of other things. An absolute yes is respectful, knows his own limits, respects yours, flirts well even if unaware he is flirting, yes is attractive enough, has an interesting mind as in different experiences to me but still open to discussion, willing to learn, good sense of humour and fun to be around, also acts well in society and treat others well etc etc.

I need a full package to get a crush. Once I have a crush the only thing that will really break that is if I realise it won't work out for some reason, like we live too far apart, we work together, he's not who he seemed to be, he's not as interested in me as I would like, he's actually racist etc etc.

It used to be I would give chances to people I did not yet have a crush on but thought I might develop one on, but that has never once worked out. It's just wasting both of our time and giving false hope. I guess that's what I mean by on ice, I'm on the date to discern if I have a crush or not and I'm not there purely because I just want to spend time with them. It's more of an examination than a date.

In the end its better to only say yes to/pursue the ones that I really have feelings for.

[–]Aeon199 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I need a full package to get a crush.

Can you explain how a man without a package--from being autistic or otherwise disadvantaged--can get anyone interested, then? I mean, I don't have the good job, practical skills, and resourcefulness you said you need there. "Money and upward mobility"--I don't have it. Can't reach it, society doesn't accommodate guys like me.

Perhaps you could explain why women without even half a package (apart from the mere basics expected of men, like average-ish appearance, basic upkeep) can put up a profile somewhere, on any site, and expect male models to show up at their door when they want? (This is not about relationships, since that imbalance would not work--I'm talking about the ridiculous advantage for casual arrangements.)

I'll admit I'm suffering from a lack of intimacy, for things that I cannot do much about. And you're saying guys need a "full package"--really. With the tables reversed, nothing could be further from the truth. I'd say it's ridiculous, and made much worse because of online dating--a shopping mall for women--but then I'd be "immature" or "complaining" right

[–]sexually_available 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me. It's hard to deny that the odds are really stacked against dudes these days, and yes, dating sites are not helpful to anyone in the long term, really. It's funny you mentioned autism, I always end up going for austic guys without knowing even though I'm in no way autistic. But that's just kinda my thing, I guess. I know that isn't common. The job thing is kind of important to me, a job, or an art, or some kind of occupation, doesn't have to earn much, just have to have some life skill at something. And usually autism does come hand in hand with some passionate expertise, which is very attractive.

The truth is, and it's hard to see it but different women do value different things. Like yes a 10 is a 10 but for some a 4 can be and 8 and an 8 can be a 4, in that midrange its all subjective.

Perhaps you could explain why women without even half a package can put up a profile somewhere, on any site, and expect male models to show up at their door when they want?

Why can they expect that? Because they can. It happens. You may think it's unfair but the truth is an average woman can put up a few risky photos and some hot dude will show up and have casual sex with her. They can expect it so they do.

Hooking up is very different from dating, personally I do not like hooking up and I don't do it. Maybe part of the numbers issue is that not as many women really want to hook up badly enough to engage in the game. Sure, if they are approached and seduced by a crush or whatever but they just aren't interested enough to make that profile to begin with. So the girls that do have a very wide selection of men to chose from, and they chose those which society values more.

On the dating side of things, men tend to be just as picky as women. One man I know will not date a girl if she eats beans, or doesn't speak English fluently. Another will not date a girl if she is overweight, she has to way at least less than him. These kinds of preferences are normal and healthy, even if they can be painful. If you're going to date someone, it makes sense for you to be more picky as you plan to spend more time with them. On the dating side, I feel the playing field is more or less level. I do struggle to find a man who meets all my ridiculous criteria but eventually I always do. Luckily I'm attracted to a few niche things like awkwardness and inexperience, so that helps. Usually the men I date are happy to have found me too, and have as many horror stories as I do about thier search. With a few exceptions, a 5 will score a 5 and a 7 will score a 7 and so on.

And you're saying guys need a "full package"--really.

Yes, they do. But my idea of a full package is different to my best mates'. Yes, there are a few features that are universally attractive on men, masculine facial features, healthy body, passion, being good with children, treating women how they want to be treated (which varies), sense of humour etc. But when it comes to the details, we want different things, some girls care more about height, some care more about how much body hair he has, some care more about social status while others care more about kindness. They will disregard the things they don't care so much about. For example income is not part of my package. Like yes it would be nice, but I care more about other stuff like being passionate about how they spend their day. Office worker who earns stacks but is miserable is not my type. Impoverished artist is more my cup of tea.

I do not have any solution for you, except the usual bullshit but I won't do you thr disrespect of typing that out, we all know it. I have tried to answer your questions to be best of my ability but that's all I can do. I'm happy to answer whatever you want if it helps you to come to terms with stuff or just see a different perspective. Living with a lack of imtimacy is a grind and you have every right to feel whatever the hell you want to feel. Not that you need me to tell you that. I'm probably the last person you want to hear anything from but here we are.

[–]Aeon199 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me. It's hard to deny that the odds are really stacked against dudes these days, and yes, dating sites are not helpful to anyone in the long term, really.

Then can I expect an apology or some kind of vindication? I want you to apologize for your advantage--yeah I know it's very immature sounding, but for once I'd like to actually see it with my own eyes. Look, I've got to admit the toll this lifelong deprivation has had on me, is quite severe.

Now, I cannot any longer tolerate a life without intimacy--you think you could? I mean, not once, for an entire life. I don't think you would enjoy that level of sexual repression, as well as zero emotional validation from the opposite gender. And that--for decades. I don't think you'd appreciate that plight. Very few (of either gender) would.

I need help so I can find what I want, which I'm sure is available: decent woman who wants to be with autistic loser, not young, who cannot do much. I'm often told decent women would want that--it's just I don't know how to find them. Mayhaps you could help. I should mention I don't want to hear about escorts--I'm not going to agree that I'm "worthless guy" who only has value when he pays.

Hooking up is very different from dating, personally I do not like hooking up and I don't do it.

Is there any path in the larger sensual world outside of traditional relationships, for autistic/loser guys? I mean anything from short-term exploration to friends with benefits, and so on.

I talked to you about this stuff before and you seem to be quick to judge any guy who's not particularly interested in "serious relationships" or whatever. I think it'd be better if you knew my preference is based around my difficulties, not out of some vain attempt to manipulate or "game" anyone. I don't manipulate to begin with--it's not possible for me. But I tend to think even fleeting intimacy is better than nothing; one has to be pragmatic. I'm not quite able to have a relationship, with the huge range of difficulties I have with social skills, life skills, and such. Doesn't mean I can't be good company for the right person, though!

I do struggle to find a man who meets all my ridiculous criteria but eventually I always do.

You get to say that, while I get to say--at least online--I am lucky to get one reply per month in any given venue, and extremely lucky to get a follow-up message (usually does not happen.) You have no idea what kind of advantage you have--none.

Impoverished artist is more my cup of tea.

Well, I certainly tick the boxes there. Maybe you found another cup to choose from, just now.. ;)

Living with a lack of imtimacy is a grind and you have every right to feel whatever the hell you want to feel.

Just describe how to find some intimacy, then, and hopefully we'll get there

[–]sexually_available 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Then can I expect an apology or some kind of vindication? I want you to apologize for your advantage

What exactly am I apologising for? Being female? Being attractive? Being attracted to men who tick all my boxes? I can't help my preferences and my body as much as you can help yours. I am sorry you live deprived of intimacy, but that isn't really anyone's fault. Not yours and not mine. It's just the situation, as shit as it is, as unfair as it is. I know a part of you is angry and you want to have that recognised. I will recognise you have every right to be angry. But I don't see the point of an apology, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Now, I cannot any longer tolerate a life without intimacy--you think you could?

No, I do not think I could at all.

I talked to you about this stuff before and you seem to be quick to judge any guy who's not particularly interested in "serious relationships" or whatever. I think it'd be better if you knew my preference is based around my difficulties, not out of some vain attempt to manipulate or "game" anyone

I am really judgemental about hookups, but that's because I don't really get the point of them myself. It's just sex for sex, not sex to express love or get to know someone you care about, so it seems empty to me. But that's just me, I should not be so judgemental and be more understanding.

This is difficult to explain, your problem is you find social cues difficult to read and convey, right? There's two ways to read social cues, the first way is to instinctually know and experience them through empathy, the second is to learn them as you would learn anything else. That's what "game" is. You learn the social cues and use them as naturally as you can. If you really want to, you can do that. You learn what all the different signals mean and all the different subtext of the different phrases like a new language. Learn to recognise changes in tone of voice as you would learn to recognise when an instrument is out of tune.

It's like there's a kind of pattern to dating and hook ups and relationships. You can learn the patterns and decode it all and look at it from a logical perspective. Don't think of it as a way to get sex, think of it as a puzzle, get distracted by it.

Just describe how to find some intimacy, then, and hopefully we'll get there

It's really not that simple. I really wish there was a magic wand I could wave and it would all suddenly fall into place for you, but I can't. That's all the advice I have for you.

Is there any path in the larger sensual world outside of traditional relationships, for autistic/loser guys

Not if you sell yourself like that. Put your better qualities out there and I believe there is.

[–]kmoore-65[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Well to be honest you can't get a girl into very easily, and even when you can it normally involves bastardizing your own values for the sake of getting to sleep with them. That's fine for a PUA who wants to get the most numbers and bag the most chicks but if you're looking for a real relationship out of it, your values are the most important thing to protect.

Personally what I've learned is that if they're not into you now, they won't be, for the most part, ever. But that's a good thing because it's an indicator of the future of your interactions and relationship, like a snapshot. If you don't take it as an indicator of your values and character but rather theirs it has much less impact on the fragile ego and overall a better, healthier love life because you aren't chasing someone and losing yourself on the way, you're also finding a person who can complete you, not by having the same interests or the same attitude or disposition, although those things are fun and can make conversation easier, it brings together two people who fundamentally function as one unit because their values, their own humanity, doesn't need to be stretched and manipulated in order to please the other.

Now you may argue over what to eat, or what color the walls should be but you find that it's easier to not only coexist but to better each other through your being yourself.

TL;DR: If you want to bag a bunch of chicks just wear a mask, if you want a meaningful and ultimately long lasting relationship then you must find your being, strengthen it and find someone who agrees with your core values and paradigms of understanding first and foremost.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]A_Becker 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm sorry about that. I've been through a lot of relationships, mostly because I used to just sleep with women and never found one of value until recently, but I've learned a couple of things. One of which is don't use dating apps if you want to get with someone. Yes, there are cases where people find LTRs on there but the vast majority of men and women who go there are looking for two things, 1: Sex. Nothing more nothing less. 2: Validation. That's a big one and it mostly consists of women trying to feel good because the hottest guys will not only talk to them but sleep with them.

Tinder is the only one I've used and I've gotten a few dates in the one month I've used it but I hated it. Too much fucking work. It and similar apps are designed for women and hot guys. If you don't fit those criteria then good luck friend-o. I'm not bitter about it though it may seem that way it's just the reality of the situation.

Now doing it in person, there's the ticket! Not only does it develop you as a person, more specifically as a man (assuming you are one), it develops a closer bond between two people from the get go. You will be a minority of men who approach in person, that's a big one up, and being with them communicating face to face makes a connection with which no pick up line or filtered selfie could ever contend. It also helps because there's no drawn out interaction. It's to the point. It's beautiful.

It takes balls I promise. I was raised in a no sex, no relationship outside of family courtship and marriage family. After being kicked out I was in no shape to communicate with anyone to which I was attracted. Normal interactions I had down but sexually charged, infatuation based interactions were maddening. The first number I ever got I believe I was either 17 or 18 and it left me flushed and gave me nausea (hilarious anecdote, she gave me a fake number and I don't blame her) but it build an understanding of the social dynamic one piece at a time and I had to change and conform. It took a long time and many failures but most importantly it took guts and a drive to be better and to show attraction, prior to leaving my parents house to live on my own that was unheard of for me) and that drive and ability to show desire is a key factor in how in person approaching has help to develop me and has also been a causal factor in the positive feedback I have seen in my interactions.

Now I'm with a woman I met in person about a year and a half ago and she's amazing let me tell you but there's an art to talking to a woman and using both your and get emotions as a tool to get a head start in your relationship, should one come from your meeting. It's also a science of changing yourself one bit at a time to be a better person. Note, this does NOT mean foregoing your standards and values to get with women but rather your bad habits and insecurities that you learn to fix and let go of. It's really and amazing and positive life experience if you're willing to say Fuck You to the ego and go for it with the intent to have a good time and LEARN.

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit static and passionless but it's hard to put what I'm talking about into a condensed Reddit comment.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Just do it already
Author	kmoore-65
Upvotes	633
Comments	124
Date	October 6, 2019 8:40 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/de0n20/just_do_it_already/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/just-do-it-already.1428411 https://theredarchive.com/post/1428411

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