Why does everyone seem to hate on Mystery so hard?

TofuTofu · 2011-03-15T14:56:18+00:00

Mystery is a goddamn genius and we owe a lot to him.

That being said, he has a lack of empathy for others that can rub people the wrong way. Also he hasn't evolved a ton as far as modern seduction theory goes.

jamesbond664 · 2011-03-15T14:57:00+00:00

Mystery is the original genius/mastermind behind 80% of today's pua industry.

afcanonymous · 2011-03-15T19:39:13+00:00

A lot of people fail to understand that a lot of his game was to help people who could already pick up 7s and 8s pick up 9s and 10s. It's extremely night game heavy and it's VERY routines based and not very natural.

Every guy studying MM goes through this progression

Learn how to open > Open a lot, but not hook > Open hook with routines > Try to learn attraction routines > Fail miserably at this > Hate on routines

Here's where a LOT of guys quit and assume MM doesn't work. They don't realize (and there's very little emphasis) on the importance of eye contact, tonality and body language. And being comfortable with yourself.

The guys who work on it then go on to do this:

Figure attraction shit out > Dancing Monkey > Rapport Master (Friendzoned because of no qualification, not enough attraction) > Qualify girl

At this point, he realizes that some things that he does works better than other things. Realizes that they're his own personalized routines. Routines DO work. MM was right.

And then gets good at MM enough to get off the internet and bang chicks.

AFCAFC · 2011-03-15T16:00:19+00:00

I don't hate on Mystery, he is the godfather of pick-up. If it wasn't for him I doubt any of us would be here right now on this forum.

I think people hate on Mystery because his method is outdated and overcomplicated. His highly structured game works well for night game and is good for newbies (like myself) to simply have a game plan to start talking to girls. Past that it is quite contrived.

I honestly think it is ok to use this structured game at first, but then transition into your own style when you build your own confidence and charisma. I'm still at the confidence building stage, and I still use structured routines when doing night game.

I think if you would only stick to mystery style game you are severally limiting yourself in growth... you will get results, but you will attribute those to the METHOD and not YOURSELF which is ultimately what you want, become a better YOU.

frogma · 2011-03-15T20:14:22+00:00

Too many people have only seen Mystery on the VH1 show, or they've read The Game, or some of his basic material. Most people just seem to think he looks weird, and that's how they form their opinion.

There's no doubt he's a pretty calculating guy- from some of the stuff I've seen, he definitely seems to treat most "sets" the same way- for him I'm sure it's natural now, but he still puts in a lot of extra work and routines he probably doesn't need to use. That doesn't really matter though, since he's successful. He also (like any other PUA) truly believes his own method is awesome, so he sticks to it like glue even if certain parts of it may not be necessary (like peacocking, though I still agree with the general idea of peacocking- if you look unique in some way and you're confident, watch what happens).

He was the guy who popularized seduction and his "method" is pretty unique- so there will always be haters, many of whom have never tried the things he does (and I don't see how they'd be qualified in dissing him). I've heard a few things in forums from guys who've actually hung out with him and sarged with him, and the general consensus seems to be that he's much more down-to-earth and "cool" than some of his shit might make him out to be.

The RSD guys, and Wygant, and various other "dating coaches" seem to diss him only for some of the terms he uses and some of his specific techniques, like negging. I don't think any of them wholeheartedly disagree with his basic stuff, because if you read between the lines you'll see that a lot of em do the exact same things- they just use different words to describe it.

People will always diss their predecessors- Mystery's done the same thing with Ross Jefferies (I won't get into NLP, but I've done similar shit and I know there's at least some truth to it).

Wygant doesn't like the whole idea of PUAs, basically because of the slang they use- but he still does a ton of the same shit.

Some guys make it a point to say that "cocky/funny" is a whole different form of game- guess what? Mystery's cocky and funny too.

Some guys like Gunwitch would say "Make the ho say no" (It's blunt and sounds bad- which isn't helped by the fact that he shot a girl)- but I highly doubt Mystery would disagree with that general idea.

In other words, different PUAs clash for all different kinds of reasons- sometimes they disagree about techniques, sometimes they disagree about certain approaches, sometimes they disagree about something else. In the end, people are people, and we'll all have different opinions and beliefs because we've had different experiences. I don't think Mystery deserves "hate" any more than David Wygant or any other PUA- I think there's a correlation between how well-known Mystery is, and how much hate he receives.

You also have to look at the fact that business is business is business- nobody's gonna sell much of their own shit by saying "I believe this other guy is great and I'm gonna tell you a lot of the same shit you've heard from him."

ThrowawayPUA · 2011-03-15T19:46:28+00:00

I think some of it is that Mystery became the public symbol of pickup, and a lot of people hate pickup so he became their target. First, he got kind of ridiculed by Style in The Game, but an author needs a protagonist (Style) and an antagonist (Mystery) if you want dramatic tension. There have been a lot of questions about how real was that tension between Style and Mystery. Nobody can really say, but this was part of the early fracture in the community around Project Hollywood.

The other problem is his TV show made him a public figure. And the show was deliberately pretty ridiculous, a lot of people in the pickup community didn't like the scene being exposed to the public in that way, and burning a lot of standard material due to it being on TV.

I personally don't care much for or against the guy himself. I don't care about his goofy peacock persona or how good he is in actual fieldwork (although his in field videos impressed the hell out of me) because I've never met the guy and probably never will, he has nothing to do with me. Mystery could not even exist, it could all just be in these books that came out of nowhere, and that material would still be of primary importance to pickup.

Mystery's ideas are extremely important in pickup. A lot of people don't like "canned routines" and other aspects of Mystery's highly structured game. But that isn't his core message. The biggest aspect of his "M3 Model" is that any seduction goes through 3 stages: Attraction, Comfort, Seduction, in that order. ALL seductions do this, even if you stumble through it blindly and it all happens by accident (that's "getting lucky"). So if you understand the structure of how seductions work, are conscious of where you are in those stages and how to move forward, then you are going to have better game than the AFCs who don't know how that works. You can go with anyone else's content, approach methods & openers, philosophies like "natural" game, etc, but you'll still go through the 3 stages.

There are a lot of different ideas that have been invented since Mystery's work, but it's still important to know M3 and see what has been added to it, or someone else's take on it.

glassuser · 2011-03-15T14:36:50+00:00

Well a lot of it is because they say he's a skinny nerd with a comic book guy voice and less than zero sense of fashion. They're right.

On the other hand, he picks up chicks in spite of it, so those fools might do well to learn something from him.

LazlikesAlly · 2011-03-15T18:44:24+00:00

Whats Mystery up to these days? I don't hear about him much anymore.

2011-03-15T19:39:15+00:00

Look at him. Then say his name. He obviously knows his shit, but he's rather ridiculous if you ask me.

leftajar · 2011-03-16T01:23:28+00:00

Something rubs me the wrong way about him...

He doesn't embody what I want to be. He doesn't seem happy! He rarely laughs. He's way too serious.

It seems like he paved over his inner demons with years of routines. Dude needs to love himself.

SpiderFan · 2011-03-15T19:10:42+00:00

Mystery isn't the best for marketing himself to the mainstream. His marketing leaves him open to pot-shots (like pretty much every pua company).

He is still the god-father of pickup. Similar to how lesser known fighters talk trash and call out champs to get their name out there, look at who every PUA company takes pot-shots at: Mystery. You don't see LoveSystems taking pot-shots at RSD and vice-versa in their products and blogs. Both of them direct them to Mystery.

I was surprised at the leaked Mystery workshop from 2003. A lot of the stuff he talked about are being passed off as 'new-school' by a lot current PUA companies. I will still use the products by the newer PUA companies, but there will always be a doubt on if their stuff is original.

yokhai · 2011-03-15T21:58:15+00:00

Because most guys are new to the community, and jump on the Mystery Hating bandwagon of other "guru's" and mPUA's.

Just like Tofu said, he has personality flaws for sure. Very little empathy combined with almost eidetic memory and social reading skills from his street magic training make him a perfect candidate for a psychopath, and also a pick up artist.

If you have ever seen his bootcamp field work you will see how he can sum up a person with in 5 minutes of talking to them. This turns alot of the guys he was working with off. When some guy you've idolized and read about online rips you a new asshole 2 hours into meeting you because you threw three sets in a row, it makes you resentfull of him.

That's where the hate starts. Then people tried to "steal" from him, rip him off, and just slander his name in the community for the sake of their own product.

Mystery is the fucking man, but even he misses some of the most important aspects as far as non-confident guys learning the stuff. How to self improve when you don't know how.

Softcorps_dn · 2011-03-15T14:45:28+00:00

I think everyone pretty much agrees you need to DHV (demonstrate higher value) at some point during the interaction. Girls want to be and be seen with guys who are high on the totem pole, and you don't get there without being interesting, confident, and having social status.

In the old days you were only as interesting as your accomplishments (perhaps in battle, or being a renowned hunter), confidence was conferred by acquired skills, and social status was often a result of military victories or owning land/property.

In modern times we can literally create these things ourselves. You can be as interesting as you want (endless # of hobbies), conjure confidence out of thin air, and your social status is only limited by your willingness to create it.

In short, I have no idea what your question was.

doomgoblin · 2011-03-15T20:25:44+00:00

I don't want to dress like a goth clown in step ups every time I'm at a bar. I also don't want to bring a deck of cards or a hat with a rabbit in it.

Kwaz990 · 2011-03-15T20:31:16+00:00

I've watched some of his stuff online

What videos have you watched and where?

crocodile7 · 2011-03-15T21:03:34+00:00

His accomplishments notwithstanding, if somebody asked me to quickly find an illustrative photo or video of a douchebag, I'd start by typing "Mystery" into Google. He has the superficial cocky all-style-no-substance look and demeanor which is so easy to hate.

spacekillers · 2011-03-15T23:40:02+00:00

I did not know Mystery was hated on?

I love that guy. He's weird in a good way.

Thats_Crazy_Talk · 2011-03-16T00:08:47+00:00

Jim Jefferies on being mysterious

cbraga · 2011-03-16T00:35:23+00:00

It's like the Civ games when you get really big all the lesser civs gang up on you...

ihaveabu · 2011-03-16T19:09:57+00:00

mystery is the foundation of "structured" pickup in today's form. Every structure pickup system/routine is based off the principles that he developed in his structured system.

David Wygant and the other "life coaches" teach a total transformation, inner game. but when it comes to directly pickup, mystery is the father of most of modern pua material.

I still don't get y people don't like him. He intimidates a lot of people, even other PUA's. That might have something to do with it...

I got involved in PUA 6 years ago. mASF and all that. Mystery was revolutionary. Never has any theories about pickup been concisely organized into a structured system.

As Mystery himself said, his system was made for people used to learning something through a structured system (any person w/ a technical background, highly educated, etc, and no liberal arts majors don't count ;p )

No matter how much publicity he got w/ that VH1 show (the basic ideas of his system were expressed. It is quite useful as a very basic entry level example of field videos), and no matter how exposed the community is, no one can or should doubt his contributions.

2011-03-15T20:00:35+00:00

Those fucking hats! Those goddamn fucking hats.

ehbeeseedee · 2011-03-15T20:58:07+00:00

His theory isn't equipped to handle modern PUAs but he fathered the early principles which are still used today.

advicevice · 2011-03-15T17:17:53+00:00

Let's start with the name Mystery...

ehbeeseedee · 2011-03-15T15:21:41+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Why does everyone seem to hate on Mystery so hard?
Author	stayhigh
Upvotes	19
Comments	61
Date	March 15, 2011 2:32 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/g4f3n/why_does_everyone_seem_to_hate_on_mystery_so_hard/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/why-does-everyone-seem-to-hate-on-mystery-so-hard.1316434 https://theredarchive.com/post/1316434

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