Toxic masculimity does not exist

DearApartment5236 · 2023-09-19T03:10:00+00:00

Excellent points. I’ve always been fond of the term “FemiNazis”.

Loud-Mathematician76 · 2023-09-19T06:41:33+00:00

the so called "toxic masculinity" is actually a toxic understanding of masculinity.

Spins13 · 2023-09-19T06:22:31+00:00

The term is just misandry. There are good people, bad people and some in between. People using this term are definitely bad people

Absolute775 · 2023-09-19T07:03:36+00:00

It is just a slur.

Saerain · 2023-09-19T08:16:31+00:00

It could be a reasonable term for the sorts of software that run in abusive men more than anyone else. When a person's ideas of how they must embody "masculinity" drive their reprehensible behavior.

Which does align with the formal, normie-friendly definition you would be fed by something like Google. The motte.

But then the typical usage by entrenched activists tends to instead be the bailey, conjuring another systemic specter propping up that pesky liberal Kapitalismus.

DrewYetti · 2023-09-19T12:17:32+00:00

Toxic masculinity is a made up term by feminists to demonise men if they are not good enough to meet their standards. Feminists will label masculinity as “toxic” if masculinity doesn’t benefit women but when masculinity does benefit women it is labelled as “real masculinity.” This implies that feminists really men’s masculine identity should only revolve around on what they can do for women.

Heavy_Grand2526 · 2023-09-19T05:37:36+00:00

It is a toxic term and the use of it should be considered hate speech.

2023-09-19T19:23:50+00:00

You cannot quantify masculinity.

What can be quantified is how many women's actions have been overlooked and not been held legally accountable for their shitty behavior.

rabel111 · 2023-09-19T23:28:42+00:00

Perhaps the only valid definition and use of the hate speech "toxic masculinity" is as troll bate. Seems to be working here.

dependency_injector · 2023-09-19T07:51:01+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" is a loaded term. It means following gender stereotypes if you're a man. If you're a woman, it's called "internalized misogyny" instead.

It can only make sense for someone who has real motivation to make it make sense. Like legal privileges, a chance to have sex with a feminist (ugh), not taking responsibly for one's own life, avoiding some sort of punishment, the feeling of righteousness, the desire to hurt people without consequences, etc.

Negotiation with one's own consciousness is possible, but energy-wise it is not a cheap task for a human brain. It won't do the trick without such motivation because normally acting against consciousness feels bad. It's a defense mechanism as I understand.

I think I bring it up too much and I feel a little bad about it, but that's also how putin's propaganda works. Acting from consciousness in Russia will cause a lot of problems from the government and the society, and acting against consciousness causes psychological discomfort. Fixing the Russian government is extremely dangerous and virtually impossible at this point, so it's up to the brain to adjust to the situation and "explain" to its owner that they are actually a good person. As a result, they end up finding excuses for any crimes committed by putin's army.

I'm not saying it makes them innocent victims. Brainwashed or not, supporting this nightmare is a crime. Слава Украине. I'm also not comparing feminism to putinism, they are indeed quite different. I'm only saying they utilize the same psychological defense mechanism to justify their crimes. The same that makes gaslighting possible.

I guess, that's why "toxic masculinity" makes sense to so many people, and doesn't make any sense for others.

Sad_Bell_6266 · 2023-09-19T16:41:07+00:00

they can't accept that there are women who truly believe in "misogyny" and the fact that women can do terrible things and evil women exist because they are wonderful. it's always fathers or maybe, just maybe mothers who pass on the "misogyny" and other bad things onto women, because they are so wonderful and free of sin yet they deserve to be treated equally and given the same privileges and opportunities as men. feminists don't want to choose whether women should get their hands dirty or be treated like princesses.

xxxjwxxx · 2023-09-20T05:09:56+00:00

I asked chatGPT about this:

“Certainly, let's contrast "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity":

Toxic Masculinity: - Definition: Toxic masculinity refers to societal expectations and behaviors associated with traditional or stereotypical notions of masculinity that can have harmful consequences. - Behaviors and Expectations: It often includes behaviors such as aggression, dominance, emotional suppression, the promotion of violence, and the devaluation of traits traditionally seen as "feminine" (e.g., expressing vulnerability or seeking emotional support). - Impact: Toxic masculinity can contribute to issues like aggression, violence, emotional repression, and difficulties in forming meaningful relationships. It can also reinforce harmful gender norms. - Examples: Pressure on men to conform to traditional ideals of physical strength, emotional stoicism, and dominance.

Toxic Femininity: - Definition: Toxic femininity refers to societal expectations and behaviors associated with traditional or stereotypical notions of femininity that can have harmful consequences. - Behaviors and Expectations: It often includes behaviors such as passivity, submissiveness, emotional suppression, the emphasis on physical appearance, and the prioritization of others' needs over one's own. - Impact: Toxic femininity can lead to issues like low self-esteem, body image concerns, emotional repression, a reluctance to assert oneself, and dependency on others. - Examples: Pressure on women to conform to ideals of passivity, emotional caretaking, physical attractiveness, and self-sacrifice.

It's important to emphasize that both "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity" are not inherent traits of all men or women. Instead, they describe harmful societal expectations and behaviors that can be perpetuated by cultural norms and stereotypes. These concepts are used to raise awareness about how rigid gender norms can negatively affect individuals and to promote healthier and more inclusive definitions of masculinity and femininity. The goal is to encourage individuals to express themselves authentically and to challenge these harmful norms.”

There’s something weird when you contrast these. The toxic masculinity ones are like aggression and violence. And the toxic femininity ones are like: being too passive or submissive.

Rhbgrb · 2023-09-20T16:38:47+00:00

Toxic masculinity is masculinity that women don't understand, like, or control...thereby it is demonized.

reverbiscrap · 2023-09-19T04:29:00+00:00

Iirc, 'toxic masculinity' was a term coined by a group of men who were trying to fight back against the new age idea of 'masculinity' that involved adopting feminine tropes.

IronJohnMRA · 2023-09-19T11:02:12+00:00

There is no toxic masculinity.

MaxiMuscli · 2023-09-19T04:45:00+00:00

It does, just not where mainstream discourse believes it to be. It’s all around the internet for sure, but policymakers know little about it and debates revolve around chimerae, with little care about desperate and depressed shut-ins. You should dissect enemy words and their definitions more to beat vain arguments. So where are the talks about mental health, in every corner of society without discrimination? Everyone is doing as though one should follow an universalist ethic, in spite of the yearly prevalence of psychiatric disorders being around a quarter of the population.

n0tqu1tesane · 2023-09-19T03:58:54+00:00

Toxic masculimity does not exist[.]

You are wrong. Look at how women are treated in Afghanistan, Syria, and Yemen. Or other countries in that region.

PrecisionHat · 2023-09-19T17:00:46+00:00

I think it does exist, but too many people use it just to describe behaviour from men that they don't like.

So, for ex, the idea that men don't cry, or can't be vulnerable if they want to be a "real man", is toxic masculinity to me (because it actually relates to the idea of masculinity).

But you have people, predominantly women, who will say that wanting a partner with a low body count, wanting a wife who will stay at home and raise kids, heck even wanting to own luxury possessions is somehow toxic masculinity. In reality, these things are either just preferences the ones using the term don't agree with, or they are just generally toxic behaviours that have absolutely nothing to do with masculinity or femininity.

Lolocraft1 · 2023-09-19T12:04:17+00:00

OP, remember people like Andrew Tate exist. If that guy is not the definition of toxic masculinity, nothing is

Masculinity in general is a good thing, but to deny the existence of radicalized men is foolish. And just because hypocrites blame everything on toxic masculinity while protecting "Ingrained mysoginy" doesn’t deny the existence of both toxic masculinity and toxic feminity

PrecisionGuessWerk · 2023-09-19T14:45:36+00:00

I disagree, I believe Toxic Masculinity is definitely a thing. But its worth saying that not all masculine things are toxic, and that the same masculine thing can manifest in toxic and non-toxic ways. So you can't just "broad-stroke" masculinity with toxicity. For example, one broadly accepted Masculine Trait is Strength. Strength is great when you use it to help and benefit the people around you. Its toxic when you use it to oppress the people around you. Another is Leadership. Being a leader is great, leaders are valuable. But forcing your way into a leadership position when you aren't naturally one, and performing poorly as one "because its manly to be the alpha" or something, is toxic.

Toxic Femininity definitely exists as well. Misogyny exists alongside Misandry. You can see it in subs like MarryRich, Diabla, and FDS. Some Feminists will deny that toxic femininity exists, but they're the "extreme" or "radical" ones. coincidentally, the radical ones are the ones with the loudest voices on the internet.

So if you're trying to cultivate an understanding of feminism by following feminist reddit subs and the like, you're only going to be fed the most radical (and not really representative) perspectives. Which is kind of how your post reads tbh.

v1adlyfe · 2023-09-19T14:53:47+00:00

I feel like a more balanced take on this would be to say that Toxic masculinity exists, but the usage of the term, and demonization of behaviors that were traditionally respected goes too far.

The media, and a lot of far lefties take it waaayy to far, but the idea that toxic masculinity and toxic femininity exists is true. The issue in my opinion is that too many behaviors are labeled toxic masculinity and too few behaviors are labeled toxic femininity.

kaicyr21 · 2023-09-19T15:23:36+00:00

Well, that’s not true. It does exist. You need not travel any further than a high school locker room to find out. But also, toxic femininity exists.

Huntress_Nyx · 2023-09-19T06:20:26+00:00

Both toxic femininity and toxic masculinity exist.

(Example of toxic masculinity is "Never show any emotion")

Although, nowadays many people do not understand the difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity. That is the problem.

YourStoicBrother · 2023-09-19T11:22:56+00:00

Toxic masculinity does exist, as well as toxic femininity

Take a look at this sub and find most men fit the description.

Toxic masculinity is a term describing the unregulated boyish behavior that is exhibited by men.

-Catcalling -Pointless violence -Homophobia -Aggression towards others (generally those weaker) -Sexual Aggression or control over partners or women (pimps/ wife beaters/ corrupt influential men) -Controlling people below them in rank or status -Suppressing or hiding emotions because “men are strong” -Huge “Us vs Them mentally” -Wanting Dominance -Feeling entitled to sex from woman (calling them names after they get turned down -Lack of empathy and compassion -Trying to appear Hard or Tough -Using violence for power -Being “alpha” -Boys will be boys -Blaming women for their own faults in life

-Sexist jokes against women or their appearance -Lack of discipline in their life -Lack of respect for others -Not taking care of themselves both physically and mentally -Low moral compass -Not protecting children from harm or exposure to harmful situations

This Masculinity gone sour is often paraded around groups of like minded men as some statues to uphold.

Real masculinity is loving and complete, determined and creative. Virtuous in their actions and pure in their thoughts and values. The exact opposite of each thing I listed above.

Toxic males have turned resentful of the world and their treatment. Which they found it easier to point fingers than deal with their struggles.

Dry-Location9176 · 2023-09-19T16:26:54+00:00

That's sort of ridiculous, there are toxic shitty people everywhere I've been.

ThwartBunskjold · 2023-09-19T16:47:17+00:00

ROTFLMFAO! Natural selection is working well. The cage you made for yourself gets smaller every day.

HotRaise4194 · 2023-09-19T17:17:44+00:00

I’d say there is plenty of evidence that toxic masculinity is real. A recent example is what we learned about Danny Masterson. That guy is certainly emblematic of toxic masculinity.

solemnoak · 2023-09-19T09:25:18+00:00

What is misoxxxx?

xxxjwxxx · 2023-09-20T04:55:07+00:00

I use the term toxic femininity a lot.

Title	Toxic masculimity does not exist
Author	Euphoric-Row-5346
Upvotes	151
Comments	142
Date	September 19, 2023 1:51 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16me3bc/toxic_masculimity_does_not_exist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/toxic-masculimity-does-not-exist.1232293 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232293

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