~ archived since 2018 ~

Would you call this manipulation?

capt-next-a-hoe

May 9, 2015

17 upvotes

There was a thread about manipulation and some posters were claiming makeup was not manipulation while TRP tactics were manipulation.

I claimed a non-natural alpha man learning and utilizing the behavior of an alpha/high SMV man to obtain success in the sexual marketplace was manipulation.

I also claimed a non-natural beauty woman using makeup to increase her SMV of looks and attractiveness to obtain success in the sexual marketplace was manipulation.

What do you think? Is this manipulation?

I'm focusing mainly on makeup covering the skin, not eyeliner, mascara, etc.

In this example, the makeup is obvious but the natural look makeup can be very discreet and unnoticable to men who don't know everything makeup related. Notice the skin in these:

Example 2

Example 3

I'm all for manipulation in the SMP and taking advantage of what's available for you to succeed. But I feel it's not consistent to say one form of manipulation is wrong while another is not.

Especially when some women who benefit from makeup's increasing of self confidence in their looks and betterment of themselves but then deny it's crucial increasing of their SMV and it's utility in the SMP.

Edit: The post says 6 comments but only 4 appear. Is there an explanation for this?

Archived from /r/PurplePillDebate

r/PurplePillDebate is a neutral community to discuss sex and gender issues, specifically those pertaining to /r/TheBluePill and /r/TheRedPill.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill subreddits and blogs. This page is our copy of the original post.

/r/PurplePillDebate archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Would you call this manipulation?
Author	capt-next-a-hoe
Upvotes	17
Comments	165
Date	May 9, 2015 10:27 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/35dt27/would_you_call_this_manipulation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/would-you-call-this-manipulation.282261 https://theredarchive.com/post/282261

Comments

[–]TRPACC 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]buarthaDelights in homosexuality2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kittukatsu 5 points5 points5 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RELTIH88Red Pill Man4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mpnsk0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stubingPurple Pillz Here!0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Hyenabreeder0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]VarsitySlutTeamCptI'm on mobile.1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stubingPurple Pillz Here!0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]crossdog9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Yonderlander6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nemma8830/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThirdUnderstudy 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trpdoucherRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ReginleiferOnly Zombies want female brains5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]_lock_down_0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points4 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]alushcorporate mandated flair4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]capt-next-a-hoeCherry Popper Red[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alushcorporate mandated flair0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]capt-next-a-hoeCherry Popper Red[S] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]circlhat1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Yonderlander7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (66 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atlas_B_Shruggin🔪Yeetus that Feetus🔪4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago* (57 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points3 points3 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]unovacaneNo maps for these territories1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]stubingPurple Pillz Here!0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]unovacane1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

And anyway, my view is that abs created in the gym are fake.

Your body doesn't care whether you lift weights, shovel gravel, or chop down trees. If you use your muscles they will get bigger and stronger.

They're not natural, they don't look natural

How can you say a part of a human body isn't natural?

and personally I don't find that attractive.

Your personal preferences are irrelevant in this moment

But for the sake of argument, I'm assuming many women do. Just as make-up is an effect created to enhance attractiveness, so are abs.

Girls lift too. Girls have abs

YOU CAN'T FAKE PHYSICAL FITNESS

MAKE UP IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO PHYSICAL FITNESS

You can fake clear even skin tone, you can fake rosy cheeks that indicate high levels of estrogen, you can fake dark and thick eyelashes, however you can't fake dead lifting 400 pounds

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points2 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]LordFishFingerI found pills (and ate them!)0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trpdoucherRed Pill0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alushcorporate mandated flair3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]dundundundone 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Yonderlander3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alushcorporate mandated flair-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]alushcorporate mandated flair-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

i think many of the women who complain about RP game do not engage in "girl game," though, which is a disconnect.

I disagree. I think they only know a few bits and pieces of girl game, but you all know some.

You do your hair when you go out, right ? Or put makeup on ? You know what you'd wear for the boys is different to what you'd wear for the girls.

Girls know how their sex changes behaviours toward a man they like sexual (female game). Whether they practice them or not. Even women who don't wear makeup understand what it does.

in fact much criticism of RP seems to come from women and men who have found RP ideas to be poor or incomplete descriptions of sexual dynamics due to conflicting life experience. and that's why im purple, not red. well, that and you guys are a little 2edgy4me

Have you been seeking out the stuff closest to your life experience ? Or just reading random/chosen for offence TRP posts.

Say your married/LTR.... Ever read MMSLP ? Ever read MAP ?

I guarantee you'll find some material somewhere that applies RP principles to your situation... And you'll read that and think fuck, I can see that's going to work.

Don't just randomly stab at TRP posts. Go,seek out stuff customised for you.

As long as your anywhere near the mainstream (I.e. Not a shoe fucker) you'll find something to assist you. Even if you're a woman ! (although the female stuff is 10 years research behind the men's)

[–]alushcorporate mandated flair-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

I didn't say they don't know what girl game is, I said they don't engage in it. if you really care, personally I don't do my hair beyond running a brush through it or putting it up and I wear makeup rarely. my bf appreciates it even more when I do, because he knows I'm going out of my way to look nice for him, which I don't do for other people

my relationship is pretty "red pill" (traditional) and I have no problem accepting that. what I have a problem accepting are all the wacko beliefs about how women can't be loyal or empathetic, women don't love men the same way men love women, all women desire the same things and will behave the same way given a certain situation... those things are why i will never be red.

i looked at MMSL, specifically the "Displaying High Value - Women" section. it seems like advice on how to be prettier/sexier, and advice on how to play mind games. i can get the former without all the RP bs, and i definitely don't need the latter.

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I didn't say they don't know what girl game is, I said they don't engage in it. if you really care, personally I don't do my hair beyond running a brush through it or putting it up and I wear makeup rarely. my bf appreciates it even more when I do, because he knows I'm going out of my way to look nice for him, which I don't do for other people

I bolded the actions we would consider girl game.

That's all natural girl game. (In one instance I noted the effect rather than the cause)

my relationship is pretty "red pill" (traditional) and I have no problem accepting that. what I have a problem accepting are all the wacko beliefs about how women can't be loyal or empathetic, women don't love men the same way men love women, all women desire the same things and will behave the same way given a certain situation... those things are why i will never be red.

Well then you're an idiot. Because you don't need to believe any of those things in order to benefit from RP.

Of the list you mentioned of 6 qualities. 1 is core RP. Only 2 are supported by a significant part of the community and 3 are so broadly stated, using all, as to be incorrect.

i looked at MMSL, specifically the "Displaying High Value - Women" section. it seems like advice on how to be prettier/sexier, and advice on how to play mind games. i can get the former without all the RP bs, and i definitely don't need the latter.

Yeah I read the bible once. The one single chapter I read was Ch16 in Leviticus. It seems all you Christians believe are strange laws about pork and twiddling your ear clockwise on Sunday's. I can get that elsewhere too, so I didnt read anymore.

I wonder if I judged it too harshly. Never got to read those Moses, or Jesus, or apostles bits. Oh well. A 5 min flick through Leviticus was enough. I know it's not saying anything even slightly different in the other 30 chapters of that book, or the other 4 dozen books. It's all "stray not with your brothers goats, and weave not your hair with his wool, nor stick your doodad up the goats hoohah" shit.

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

3 are so broadly stated, using all, as to be incorrect.

is AWALT not "core RP" now?

otherwise, like I already said, my relationship is pretty red pill and I don't doubt that SOME things said in RPW, MMSL and elsewhere in the "pillosphere" might apply.

but I'm still struggling with why I should care. like I said, I will never be fully red because, okay, I disagree with at least 1 core tenet of RP, and 2 that are "supported by a significant part of the community." I'm sure there are more that I take issue with, and of course, there's the seething rage component of TRP prime. I don't find it effective or helpful to sift through mountains of turds to find diamonds, when there are so many other sources for help with self-improvement and self-actualization that come without all the things I don't like about TRP.

unless you're saying that TRP (like the Bible?) is the "one true way" to see the world and act accordingly, there's no imperative for me to find things I like among everything else

you're an idiot

thanks for remaining civil

[–]TheGreasyPole1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPole1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But it's just symptomatic of the problem. I'm explaining our way of thinking, but that requires a modicum o understanding on your side that isn't there.

It can be explained in that circumstance, with a book or two, but people who don't read our sidebar books are constantly making false assumptions... All I can do is try to highlight one at a time so that this one can be properly explained... If you need them all explained read our books. That is what they are for.

If you don't want to delve into your misunderstanding of AWALT pick another one, we'll do that. You picked this as your example to use, not me. Pick another.

RP is not like the bible, because it is built on millions of attempts to find out what works whereas the bible attempts to explain what god wants.

This leaves ample room for any RP man to reject any part of it "because it doesn't work for him"... Unlike the bible where rejection means "you are not doing what god wants".

RP is more like a car manual. If X didn't fix your car try Y.

Yet when you say "RP says do Z" I know there is no Z in the RP manual because I've read the fucking manual.

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPole2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPole2 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPole1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i'm not done yet but the impression i'm getting is that these are just run of the mill self help crap.

It is self help. But it's done from a different paradigm. One people aren't usually exposed to... and that generates different advice from the rest...

the advice might work, but the theories and terms are just bullshit used to sell the advice.

Well, I'll leave the theories alone for now... But the terms aren't bullshit. We had to create a load of new concepts that no-one in dating had ever really created and used before. We had to create terms for those.

Pook (or any RP poster) don't get to choose the terms... They were set decades ago. They DO however describe our model.

like i can see how telling a nerdy, awkward guy that women don't care about intelligence AT ALL, rather they're attracted to beefcakes, might help his approach.

Woah. Where you getting that from ? Intelligence is an Alpha trait. We don;t tell guys to hide it.

We just tell them... Ain't going to cut it on it's own, brother.

Intelligence without "beefcake" ... Not going to do it... The katana wielding neckbeard is plenty intelligent.

If you've got the brains, add the beefcake... Then you'll nail ALL the chicks. The ones that like brains (who will be interested in yours now you've got the beef, and the other stuff) and the ones who do not like the brains (because you've got the beef and the other stuff).

it's just that a guy just can't lead with his intelligence if he's trying to pick up a barfly for a ONS

Really. You deal with brainy Katana weilding fat ugly SMV1 guys... And you are just as interested in those guys as the guys with that level of intelligence PLUS the beef, the confidence, the jokes, the skills the game ?

His intelligence is fixed. (more or less) His appearance and all these other skills are not.

Trust me, you can't tell me different I'm a guy I've seen it, women love intelligence... COMING FROM A GUY THEY ALREADY THINK IS HOT.

She don't already think your hot ? She think you're disgusting ?

Well you could be Stephen fucking Hawking and she won't care.

She'll be out looking for that intelligence with the better looking guys. She'll pick a guy dumber than you, providing he is still smart, because he's hotter. He actually turns her on !

still waiting on MMSLP though. i have higher hopes for that one

Yeah, of the two thats the one the chicks dig the best.

Pook I suggested as he's an easy read... He does the plate game you guys know from TRP... He's a good grounding... And he's free !

MMSLP is more in depth and interesting (goes into our model better)... He does the relationship game you guys won't know from TRP... He's easily the most female friendly... But you gotta pay.

People are usually reluctant to pay for the first book. So I give them Pook. Usually after Pook they are interested enough to pay for the second book... and then the third...etc.

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Woah. Where you getting that from ? Intelligence is an Alpha trait. We don;t tell guys to hide it.

lesson 9 in Pook. one of the "Harsh Truths":

Women are not attracted to genius, only strength and imagination

She'll be out looking for that intelligence with the better looking guys. She'll pick a guy dumber than you, providing he is still smart, because he's hotter. He actually turns her on !

i'm willing to admit i may just be an outlier, but good looks do nothing for me without intelligence. my boyfriend is admittedly average looking at best and when i met him he was even less physically attractive (fatter, less muscle). more importantly, i am more attracted to him (and have better, more frequent sex with him) than my more attractive, more alpha-y ex bf.

honestly most of my confusion comes from stuff like this, and more and more i'm just drawing the conclusion that i really am a "special snowflake." after reading the 15 lessons in Pook, i talked some of it over with my bf to get his perspective and he said most women are as described! (for most things. he disagreed on a few points). i don't know how to reconcile that.

anyway, otherwise i think a lot of the advice in Pook is spot on. just couched in a little narcissism, but that's standard for RP haha

*this is an edit. i assume you're going to say that if a hotter guy with all the qualities of my current bf came along, and i was sure i could get him to commit, i would dump current bf for bf+. but tbh i think that is more of a male mentality than female. possibly because i have been the dumpee in that trading up situation before.

[–]TheGreasyPole1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

On the genius thing.

You like intelligence right ? It's your big thing.

How hot do you get for Stephen Hawking, a good contender for the cleverest guy on the planet ?

Really super hot ? Is he the hottest guy on the planet to you ?

Or not hot at all ?

I get that you dig intelligence. But that has to come in a certain package of minimum hotness, right ?

Pooks telling the "clever but ugly" lads that the clever won't cut it on its own. He's telling them that they have to reach that minimum attractiveness bar FIRST and then their brains are an asset.

Be the prize !

A clever but awkward, unconfident, fat, smelly, greasy, guy calling you "Milady" is not the prize.

You want his smarts... In a hot, or at least minimally attractive, body.

*this is an edit. i assume you're going to say that if a hotter guy with all the qualities of my current bf came along, and i was sure i could get him to commit, i would dump current bf for bf+. but tbh i think that is more of a male mentality than female. possibly because i have been the dumpee in that trading up situation before.

Nah. I won't tell you that. That's what we tell the guys.. To stop them assuming that they are in the clear and don't need to improve no more.

It's true in some circumstances, not all.

You'd probably be tempted.. If he was hot, if he was clever, if he had game... But if your BF is cutting the mustard, then you can easily resist.

The problem for you is actually your BF. The one you got sounds cool.

But what of he got lazy, fat, wasn't bringing home a decent paycheck, started getting slovenly, started grooming less, getting smelly, sitting around in sweatpants...

And the current version of your BF swing by... Hot, clever, charming, all the rest. The real prize, whilst your BF has let himself go and is no longer the prize.

You might give into the temptation then. What we'd tell your current BF is... Dont take the risk dumbass! Stay the prize ! Then you don't need to worry. As long as you are the prize, you are in the clear.

That's why we tell the guys "beware of chad". Many of them do have to be wary, but even those that don't right now need to keep their game up, lest they become vulnerable.

An easy way not to get eaten by tigers is to follow the rule if you hear a rustle in the bushes run. It's a tiger. That's not true, it's not always a tiger.

But the guys that follow that rule ?

They don't get eaten by tigers.

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

they have to reach that minimum attractiveness bar FIRST and then their brains are an asset.

ok. so surely you can agree that the minimum attractiveness bar is set really high for some women, and really low for others. would it be fair to say that RPers are trying to max out their attractiveness to get the highest quality mate, because higher quality mates generally have the minimum attractiveness bar pretty high?

if the whole hypergamy thing just boils down to "don't take your SO for granted" then fine. i think that's great advice for both men and women. doesn't guarantee your mate will never leave, but if it prompts you to take care of yourself and the relationship, sweet

here is something i don't get: is sex the primary motivator for men? would these awkward virgin-ish men that come to RP for advice not have any other reason to improve themselves?i think that must be at least partially why some guys are so amped about RP... if they were eating like shit, never exercising and sitting in their mom's basement all day, they're naturally going to have a better life just by leaving the house to go to the gym regardless if they get laid.

[–]TheGreasyPole1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

ok. so surely you can agree that the minimum attractiveness bar is set really high for some women, and really low for others. would it be fair to say that RPers are trying to max out their attractiveness to get the highest quality mate, because higher quality mates generally have the minimum attractiveness bar pretty high?

That's almost right. But you are only catching one aspect of three.

1) let's say you are now attractive to Miss 90%. Really good looking girl. That's a benefit, you've now reached the min level for her. But it's going to be work, you'll have to play good. [your reason]

2) But if you can pull Miss 90%. You can also get Miss 89% all the way to zero. Your dating pool is now 90% of females. [the important reason]

3) Also. Even while it's still work to pull Miss 90%, 89 is easier... And 70 is a LOT easier. And 50 just kinda falls in your lap. She can't beleve she's got a shot with a guy her 90% mate is interested in. She's practically lighting up the room with her blushes, and giggles. Twirling her hair like crazy.

So. That's the reason to push up your SMV. The question then is... What are your goals ?

When your the prize, do you want a load of 50-70 plates gained with low effort ? A few high quality, high effort plates ? An LTR with the hottest girl ? An easier and friendlier LTR with an 85 (who is still pretty damn hot) ?

It's up to you. What are your goals ? You're the prize now.

Girls can be the prize too.

if the whole hypergamy thing just boils down to "don't take your SO for granted" then fine. i think that's great advice for both men and women. doesn't guarantee your mate will never leave, but if it prompts you to take care of yourself and the relationship, sweet

Hypergamy boils down to "here's what women want". That's valuable information to a guy who wants to give women what they want. It's also valuable to a guy who just wants to get laid and who gives a fuck whether she gets what she wants.

It also tells you how you will provide. LTRs require Alpha and Beta. Plates, just alpha. ONS alpha.

So, if your boyfriend took the red pill, he'd have a good idea exactly what you want and how to provide it. He can act like a human being. Or he can act like an asshole. But he knows what women are looking for.

I use that knowledge to have a great sex life with my wife.

here is something i don't get: is sex the primary motivator for men? would these awkward virgin-ish men that come to RP for advice not have any other reason to improve themselves?i think that must be at least partially why some guys are so amped about RP... if they were eating like shit, never exercising and sitting in their mom's basement all day, they're naturally going to have a better life just by leaving the house to go to the gym regardless if they get laid.

Here you've nailed it.

They come to us with a sex drive that is unfulfilled. Desperate for its fulfilment... And we use the drive, the hunger, the desire that creates to make them better men. When they are. Their sex drives are fulfilled.

It doesn't matter how you come to us... From mums basement... From a 14 year marriage.. A divorcee.. A student... A mid thirties single accountant... We take the burning sex drive issue that brought you to RP. We use it to make you a better man. When you are a better man you get laid like tile. Whether that's your wife, or your plates.

Now. We also show how not to fuck it up if it's currently good, and how to check for tigers, and how to keep your relationship running smoothly and evenly and full on funnily. That's how it might be useful to you. It's how it was useful to me.

MMSLP and then MAP by Athol Kay show you those games.

[–]alush1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the last part of your reply touches on a common criticism of RP: if all it takes for men to get laid is self-improvement, why come to RP?

i think RP just meets men where they are: bitter and angry at women, other men who get laid, society, etc. RP validates their feelings, gives theories on why the "SMP" is the way it is and gives advice on how to game the system.

though honestly, TRP seems much different to me than it was 1.5-2 years ago. I checked the front page just now and it was actually really refreshing to see comments criticizing a post on how to play mind games (even if they did refer to it as "womanly manipulation" lol) with your girlfriend. you guys seem to have become much more moderate and less edgy. wonder why.

i'll come back after i read MMSLP. thanks for writing such detailed replies.

[–]sirihaveacunningplanPurple Pill Woman-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More like 20 - 50 years for the female research. Emofeels be complex.

I was once asked why women seemed so variable by a physicist - I told him the instrument error is really high for emotions. Feelings are a hypersensitive apparatus; esp lady feels. (I do a lot of spectroscopy/analytical chemistry, so I tend to see things in these terms.) Gals can twig the fuck out on baseline body language- basically: "He's acting 'cold', he must hate me, I'm going to go weep in a corner". Add to that the annoying fact that little stuff like that (body language the poor guy doesn't even know he's projecting) can make you feel like your beloved pet has just died....it's a total horrorshow, really; but it can be very useful if you keep in mind the error bars associated with body language interpretation and adjust for sex/gender identification.

Meanwhile the vast majority of guys seem to have a binary emotional state: "thinks are OK" and "HULK SMASH PUNY GOD". Maybe also horny; I'm still working on my Male Emo State Equations :)

When my BF asked "What do I do when you're crying about nothing?" my answer was: hold me, unless you set me off, in which case wait about 15 to 20 min and then hold me. Don't try logic, it won't work. (He's a physics theory guy who ... well, he's basically a physicist who is secretly a mathematician who in reality is a computer programmer. I generally try to use algorithm-type formats to interact with him, lol.)

Anywho, my point seems to be: for female emotions, more research is needed.

[–]capt-next-a-hoeCherry Popper Red[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sirihaveacunningplanPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't wear makeup at all, but I'm in a STEM field and wearing makeup in the lab (esp. synthetic organic labs) is a no-no. I think makeup is fine for things like theater (you do actually need it for your facial features to show up). I also do think it's a legit art form, if that makes sense, but I don't see it as a tactic for getting a date.

I used to wear makeup when I was a teenager, but stopped quite quickly when I considered it from a genetic standpoint. I mean, I'd want a guy to like me for my unvarnished features- it's what he'd see in the morning, right? And what would get passed along to his progeny. (I may have learned about natural selection way too young, heh.)

So, I consider makeup to be a bit manipulative unless it's way over-the-top, obvious makeup. Meanwhile, from what I can make out about TRP, most of the more sensible tactics involve "lift heavy things", "be healthy", "make money"-- that's not what I would call manipulation.

[–]Yonderlander1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Yonderlander0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LordFishFingerI found pills (and ate them!)-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Elkmont0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chickenparadeDr.Mario2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Yonderlander1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]capt-next-a-hoeCherry Popper Red[S] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alexdelargeorange0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't know, I'm not a woman. But, maybe they like the way it can hide certain things that they personally don't like. It depends on the woman. I know women who will go out with men they've been dating for awhile wearing make up simply because they just like how it looks on them.

I know for instance, and people bring up clothes here. I go the gym a lot and have decent looking arms and shoulders, but a bit of a gut as well so I personally like wearing black shirts to help hide that. I'm in a long term relationship so I'm not going out to impress women, but it's just something I like, for me. So I think that's the only way I can relate that, as again, I'm not a woman.

The important thing to remember is, the world doesn't revolve around you, and not "you" in particular, but people who think that women are only putting on make up to manipulate you.

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]deepfriedcocaine1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I understand people can dress better or go to the gym for others, but I also think it's arrogant to assume the contrary. And no, if it's for yourself, then it specifically isn't "for others". So what he's saying here, I wouldn't call it manipulation, because he hasn't met the burden of proof that women specifically do it for others to look at them.

Now, here's what I will say. Even though I don't have to do this because the burden of proof hasn't been met that the women in the pictures mentioned are doing it for other people, let's say that there are women who do do it. I kinda don't even want to give TRP this premise because they stereotype really badly, but let's say that yes, some women out there on planet earth do do it to manipulate other people. What I have to say is.....so what.

I feel it's somewhat of a straw man that the premise is attacking anyway.

Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others through underhanded, deceptive, or even abusive tactics.

So people say, all manipulation is bad. Well, yes and no. It could very well be, it depends. So, I was a job steward at my last job, the fill in one. Some guy was gonna get written up for something dumb, and I was going to try to convince the superintendent that he didn't do anything wrong. Now, in what ways did I use manipulation in the situation? I spoke very calmly, I stuck by the facts, I tried to sound reasonable, and from that, I got what I wanted out of him.

Had I went in there and told him how I really felt, how it was an injustice, how it was bullshit, how he was just looking to swing his power around to make himself look better in front of his superiors, then well, nothing would have gotten done. This is why I hate tumblr style SJW as they don't really want to get an injustice fixed, they want something done for themselves. And one way they could get things done for themselves that is right is to manipulate the situation by changing your tone.

I feel a lot of TRP have problems with degree and feel that everything is on the same level as good and bad. I feel there is a lot of very black and white thinking here and from reading posts and responding. You can manipulate people for good, and you can manipulate people in ways that aren't really that big of a deal, such as the make up situation. Is it manipulation in the case I mentioned above? But honestly, what kind of manipulation are you comparing it to? Is it the same thing as trying to groom someone to want to have sex with them after they lost their husband and now they're looking to swoop in and take advantage? No, of course not. So yes, I may concede that there might be some manipulation if they're doing it for the sole purpose of attracting a guy. But, it's not that big of a deal in comparison to other instances of manipulation.

[–]deepfriedcocaine2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]deepfriedcocaine0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]madscientistlove 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]why_do_anything[🍰] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok, what? It's make up. People wear clothes all the time that they like and they make them feel better about themselves. It's not that difficult of a concept.

Exactly. We're fine with makeup. Women and pussies should be fine with the male equivalents. Are they ? Are they fuck. They wish to bully us with shame for doing the equivalent of being "a chick who puts her good face on for a night out".

They're not hurting anyone like a lie potentially would.

What if the lie also hurts no-one, just makes us a bit more attractive, just like the makeup. Is it ok then ?

So it's a terrible example, it's not equivalent at all.

It's a great example... Is a lie that hurts no-one but gets us laid equivalent to makeup that hurts no-one but gets girls laid ?

Will you say that lies which don't hurt are perfectly fine ?

he lie being told to someone is outward and the example I'm talking about with wearing make up is to make oneself feel better and that's it. It's inward.

Bwahahahahaha.

So why don't women wear makeup to make them look ugly to men ? Why isn't green lips, with purple noses and bright red ears their choice of makeup ?

The answer is it makes them feel better because it makes them more attractive to men. It's that extra attractiveness that gives the confidence boost.

I could also say ... Awesome ! So if makeup makes girls feel better, and that's ok.... So long as guys feel better when they lie, that's ok too ... Right ?

Are people so self absorbed that seeing a woman wearing make up must mean they're doing it to impress them?

Of course not. Before she went out she had no idea I existed.

She wanted to look more sexually attractive, whether for he own reason, or to attract men. She "lied" about her attractiveness as a result. She put makeup on to artificially and temporarily boost attractiveness.

So... When a guy wants to look more sexually attractive... For his own reasons maybe, or to attract girls, he's allowed to lie in order to increase his attractiveness temporarily by the same metric, surely

Equality and all that. All he is doing is what every girl who puts on makeup is doing.

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They wish to bully you and shame you, I'm gonna need some proof of that, I'm not quite buying that. Women and pussies should be fine with male equivalents I'm not even sure what you're getting at.

And again, are you lying to the person to make them attractive to you, or are you doing it for yourself? Why would you be doing to someone to do it for yourself. What are you lying about, examples? I think it's hard to explain to you as well because I think you're looking at women differently then I am, where I feel you think women are going out of their way to lie to you by wearing make up.

And again, "it's a lie that gets girls laid", you're assuming again. When you assume you make an ass out of u and me. How do you know they're doing it just to get laid?

And your other comment, "why don't women wear make up to look ugly to men". Women don't exist simply to try to impress you or other people. The world doesn't revolve around you and I think that's the biggest thing to come from my original statement.

When it comes to guys wanting to enhance their looks by wearing certain shirts because it makes them feel better about themselves, I'm all for that as well, I don't really have a problem with it.

[–]madscientistlove 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheGreasyPoleObjectively Pro-moderate filth2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]why_do_anything[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok, I see it there. Again in response to someone else, one is done outwardly and one is inwardly, if you get me. Lying about oneself, it would matter to some people depending on the situation. But with make up, at least in my experience (though granted anecdotal evidence usually means shit), women just like wearing make up because they like how they look in it. They're not going out there and trying to make other people, friends for instance, think that they look different. The friends likely don't care all that much, but it's what the person thinks of themselves. I've commented in another post, I have a decently sized chest, shoulders and arms from working out, but a bit of a gut, so to hide that I'll wear black t-shirts. I'm not doing it for other people, I'm doing it for myself.

If one doesn't think that they're wearing make up just to impress them, then the whole point doesn't exist. "You" or whoever is the one adding on the extra baggage, not her. And like, it is an extreme case, but some people like having their balls nailed to a step stool. Are there people out there who will wear make up for the sole purpose of attracting attention? Yeah, I'd believe that. It's a big world out there. But I think it's somewhat arrogant to think that it's being done for the person who is looking at them as almost the default position.

[–]why_do_anything[🍰] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation-2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

One more time, are you going to avoid the question or just keep hitting semantics? Because I'm just going to have to come to the conclusion that you're ignorant and don't want to answer the question. I could have phrased it better and I'll try to explain it specifically.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure some people do it simply to attract other people.

This statement here talks about how that with 7 billion people on planet earth, I'm sure there's someone out there who puts on makeup simply for the attention of others. It's to show that I'm not completely ignorant.

But how do you know that women don't do it for themselves and only to attract others?

You seemed to disagree with this idea and didn't think that women would do that and I'm just interested to find out how you know that and that it's only done to attract others.

[–]beer77 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TRPACC 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Ok, but when you get these examples it not a green flag for dishonesty and or abuse, ok?

First example - Men are like children - something women have been saying long before trp.

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=men%20are%20like%20children

Second example - sounds like a rant from a certain type of feminist or woman venting about men.

Doris lessing speaking about the way feminists have made it acceptable to speak about men - in reference to a female school teacher psychologically abusing boys and thinking it was correct. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/aug/14/edinburghfestival2001.edinburghbookfestival2001

Your third example has way too many separate examples to deal with - but similar rants about men are common enough in the women's mainstream.

[–]andrewisgood0 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I also got this comment from this very thread:

It is true though that you should never take advice from a woman and in general always take everything they say with a grain of salt.

So that's one example. Anyway, apparently Coco Chanel is "all women". Didn't know that. Obviously I don't believe that and many women don't. I think one problem with your original statement is women's culture is difficult to pin down because all feminists are different. Same goes with Nicki Minaj who seems to more or less almost ignore that comment and was just a random gem from there. I also don't think a relationship coach is going to have the same opinions as all women.

One issue with feminism is like, there are a lot of things I and other feminists disagree with. I personally think that women should be equal to men. The teacher talked there and I would disagree with her and say that she was wrong because she is. I don't believe men are innately violent. People can have violent tendencies.

[–]TRPACC1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]alexdelargeorange0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Women don't doll themselves up when they're about to spend a night alone watching tv eating chips.

How do you know that?

So, there's no way that it could be done because they want to feel better about themselves and like the way they look in it? No way, ever, right? Can you back that up? And it does have a use. Some women might want to feel better about themselves. They still look in the mirror and they could like or dislike how they look based on their own tastes.

And yeah, everyone does do manipulation from time to time, but I feel that TRP might take that to the extreme. I will admit that I don't know completely because I'm not a woman and I don't think you could really ask a woman because just from reading other things you're saying like turning a fucking ogre like that to something fuckable, I'm gonna guess that you might not respect women and there opinions enough to care what they say.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points1 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]andrewisgoodYou are a fountain of misinformation0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]capt-next-a-hoeCherry Popper Red[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]dundundundone 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]capt-next-a-hoeCherry Popper Red[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AmIWhatOrNotPurple Pill Man-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]beer77 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]beer774 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]beer774 points 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Wolfsouls-1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SerpOfZerk 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LUClENSociology of Sex &Courtship0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rumo_itaki1 point 11 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points0 points 11 years ago | Copy Link

[–]strongalfalfa|||-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]foxmulders-1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link