Selfish, cowardly manipulators are low-value

[deleted] · 2015-06-14T03:51:47+00:00

It's like this guy is trying to get this dude dumped.

Dread Game is essentially betting the farm of the relationship. That's the point. Women who are invested in the relationship but not you- which is to say, they like the idea of dating you, the doctor, or you, the so-and-so more than you as an actual person- are seen as a waste of time under TRP unless you're just after sex. If there was a better way of doing it, people would do it, but sitting around and talking about your feelings doesn't exactly work. As is if there isn't a solid foundation for the relationship to stand on, neither of you are doing each other any favors by avoiding the inconvenient truth and are only putting an obstacle between yourself and what could actually be a better relationship.

Google "manipulative boyfriend/husband" and you'll find as many horror stories as on TRP, but you guys just ignore what doesn't fit your preconceived biases.

TRP doesn't give advice on dating men, I'm sorry. Women should absolutely engage in comparable behavior if they want to drag it out of their boyfriend that said BF has no interest in them beyond the benefits of being in a relationship. I mean, remember, women will follow these lines of thought to justify poking holes in condoms to trick their boyfriend into getting them pregnant, and you want to worry about some mildly abusive behavior that's akin to saying, "Put them up, or shut up"?

It couldn't possibly be that by giving off doormat vibes you attract these kinds of people like sharks to the stench of blood and then confirm each other's biases, nooooooo, that would get in the way of your women-hate jerkoff!

So now you're victim blaming? The problem with sociopathy is that the sociopath is often- typically- extremely good at playing the illusionist. Someone who's going to manipulate you is typically really good at it.

Lets just ignore the negative comments that follow the one you linked that call it for what it is- Sharia Law. I mean, I'm going to assume this isn't Roosh grade trolling.

Then what is with all this "women are less rational than men" crap in your required reading?

I will freely concede that TRP is overly interested in castigating women for what men are just as capable of falling into. The issue is that TRP isn't really about saving the male basket case from their own vices and condition. MRA's, MGTOW, and psychiatrists are more up your alley for that. Really though, this is no different then being a condescending douche who tells feminists they should really be focused on that issue rather than this issue if they're really for equality.

Oh right, to knock women off the pedestal that you put them on in the first place, and somehow placing women beneath men will even things out right?

We didn't put women on a pedestal, society did. Society's been doing that for centuries. And its not about placing women beneath men, this is ridiculous.

prodigy2throw · 2015-06-13T22:35:35+00:00

The best way for women to get rid of Red Pill is to stop letting Red Pill tactics work on them.

CursedLemon · 2015-06-14T01:41:11+00:00

I'd LOVE to be able to talk to my wife like a proper adult. I'd LOVE to never have to apply dread. Unfortunately the first doesn't work well, and the second is incredibly effective.

I didn't make the rules, I just play the game.

GayLubeOil · 2015-06-13T23:16:17+00:00

I can literally pull down my Girl friends pants and start grunting Red Pill Alpha while humping her. That's an effective strategy and works well in my relationship. I guarantee that the GayLubeOil house hold is far more fun and entertaining than blue pill relationships built on equality.

[deleted] · 2015-06-14T05:03:15+00:00

I could try to change your view, but given the general tone of your post I doubt its possible.

The thing is, all those behaviours you listed as being 'low value' are only effective because they fool the woman into believing you are 'high value'. While on paper that might seem ridiculous, but people aren't that rational. All they see is that the person they care about is acting flighty, like they might not be that invested in the relationship after all. Thats 'high value' behaviour, of a sort. Sorry, thats just how human minds operate. Its sad, but true.

galileh · 2015-06-14T00:40:26+00:00

You're right, in a way manipulators are low value. But if they're good enough manipulators and actors, nobody can tell. They'll present as high-value, which is pragmatically the same thing. And it gets results.

Smilingbluekitties · 2015-06-13T22:03:42+00:00

... and if you selfishly manipulate your partner you are low-value.

Low-value by your standards and probably by society's standards. We don't care about both.

Also I think you mean low-value morally.

That's not really what trp has in mind when talking about high-value men.

Inb4: "but trp says that men are morally superior, love unconditionally and stuff!!!!". Well yeah we both claim that and teach men not to love unconditionally and we teach them not to hold themselves to a ridiculous moral standard that benefits noone really.

ERockEfreedom · 2015-06-14T05:54:40+00:00

You guys know that's not what people are talking about when they call your tactics manipulative so don't play dumb.

There is fundamentally no difference between makeup and dread game.

Men are attracted to looks, so when you lie about your looks(with makeup, for example), it's manipulation.

Women are attracted to frame, so when you lie about the frame(with dread game, for example), it's manipulation.

The only one playing dumb here seems to be you.

mcmur · 2015-06-14T05:55:43+00:00

wow...you're upset.

A special someone starting to play a little dread-game with you eh?

Don't worry, he'll text back I'm sure!

nomdplume · 2015-06-14T17:08:29+00:00

I agree. Fuck those women who wear makeup and manipulate their own appearances to look younger. You make such a good point. I'm completely outraged by the entire female beauty products industry! We should all be our natural self!

Every single interaction person to person interaction can be viewed as manipulative. Taking time and effort to interact with someone is for some ulterior motive -- to make friends, to accomplish a goal, to entertain oneself, etc.

Which leads me to my point -- the idea that "manipulation" is bad is an inaccurate description. What you're trying to say is "behaviors I find distasteful are bad", which is a tautology, so there's no view to change.

A better CMW would be "CMW that dread game isn't manipulative", in which I'd say the inherent nature of dread is that it isn't manipulative because dread game is about being completely selfish. Dread relies on ignoring what you think your woman wants and focusing on doing things for yourself. If your woman isn't appreciating your time or reciprocating your affections in a way that you're happy with, go do something else that you yourself enjoy -- don't give two shits about her feelings.

Dread game is ultimately as honest as it gets. It non-verbally sends the message, "Wife. You suck right now. I'm going something better." Ideally that's coupled with an explicit understanding of how she can improve -- but that can be communicated implicitly by giving her more attention when she's acting in a way you enjoy as she tries to regain the affection and attention she's lost due to you focusing on your hobbies.

tl;dr - most guys have no fucking idea how to be selfish in their interactions with women. selfish men who need to be won are more attractive than men who are always available. RP tells men to adopt attractive behaviors to be attractive.

Kill_Your_Ego · 2015-06-13T22:16:55+00:00

In economics there's a field called game theory. Part of game theory is the prisoner's dilemma. This is where two operators meet and decide to treat the other selfishly or with altruism. If both operators are altruistic the highest levels of utility are created. +3 for both operators for a total of +6. If one is selfish while the other is altruistic the selfish one makes out like a bandit getting +5 but it's still less overall utility because the altruistic one gets +0. If both are selfish they both get +1.

Western women have been trained to believe that they, the most privileged class to ever exist, are somehow victims. And they have also been raised to be incredibly entitled. They seem to believe that other people just owe them. It feels right so they believe it.

These women gave been acting selfishly towards us men our entire lives. Over and over. They've done it to our fathers, our uncles, our brothers and friends, and to us. We've finally figured it out. Hence we react.

You don't seem to get it do you? The red pill isn't creating us dude. We are creating the red pill. And women are creating us. We create it by reacting to what women are doing. So we have learned to always choose to be selfish because the alternative is to have your entire life destroyed by these horrible western women.

We aren't going to change back to altruism. If a woman acts altruistically towards me a few times then, and only then, will she have earned an altruistic response from me.

Do you know how incredibly rare it is for any woman, even my own mother, to be able to act altruistically towards any man? Have you seen the advice women give each other in their relationships? I have. They tell each other to cheat at every opportunity. They shame any woman who dares to even suggest that any woman should ever do anything altruistically for any man. Even her own husband.

And you want to come shame us for reacting? Go fuck yourself buddy. We aren't your cannon fodder. We aren't your fucking collateral damage. All men need to learn that they are always number one over any woman. Always.

You want men to change their behavior then change the incentives. Your pathetic feminine shaming tactics don't work anymore. And seriously go to the doctor and have some blood work done. You certainly have low T if you're acting like this. Like a woman.

idkthisname1123 · 2015-06-14T18:50:33+00:00

Girl here. I agree. There's nothing impressive, honorably manly or rational about playing mind games instead of just being straightforward and honest. Being straightforward and honest takes way more than using slick loop holes. We're talking about adult men here, not high school. Or middle school.

Whether it works or not doesn't matter, still makes you low-value. Prostitution works too if one wants to make money, but it's not an especially highly valued way...so to speak.

Reginleifer · 2015-06-13T22:21:59+00:00

buy a size Small thong from Victorias Secret and plant it in your bedroom like you forgot to pick it up/some slut left it. Even though you're not cheating, it'll put her brain into a panic.

Stupid idea, it's going to have new thong smell. The way to go is to either get some chick to wear it (creepy) or dirt+cheap detergent to really give it a "used" appearance. Sanders loosen fabrics right? Maybe run it under a sander to stretch it a bit?

It's like this guy is trying to get this dude dumped.

Also that, best to go with techniques that give you some deniability. Put your facebook on private, rig it so you get strange messages (microsoft office) in the evening and walk away (later to be discovered that they are reminders to walk the dog in case they bring it up in divorce court)

You know how you feel like shit when someone manipulates you and hurts you for their own selfish self-interest? You know how that makes them a shit partner? So now you're doing the same thing, and you are now a shit partner.

Yeah but now I'm getting what I want. I can't unshit the world. 0.o

A low-value partner. congratulations.

:/ Surprisingly not phased by this, the way I see it.... I probably get called worse things in traffic every day..... also you're not blowing me so your opinion of what I am isn't relevant.

Doesn't matter had sex.

"nooooo, women are the meanie manipulative ones! We're just adopting their tricks to get by!"

About as valid a reason as any other, we're social beings we take social cues from others. If the world was kind, gentle, and always looking out for your interest you may have had a point.... but it's not.

It couldn't possibly be that by giving off doormat vibes....

Broad generalization about our generalizing broads. RP is pretty diverse. Maybe we ought to take surveys in our respective subs to find out which is more diverse though?

Then what is with all this "women are less rational than men" crap in your required reading?

There's how and why, you can't truly understand something until both questions are answered. This is where feminist/female nature posts come in, to gain a further understanding of the situation.

ToshiroOzuwara · 2015-06-14T14:09:19+00:00

You know how ~~you feel like shit~~ it is reality when someone manipulates you and hurts you for their own selfish self-interest?

FTFY. Hate the biotruths, not the player.

2015-06-13T23:51:54+00:00

[removed]

hyperrreal · 2015-06-13T20:23:20+00:00

This is too uncivil. It's also going to create a backlash RP circlejerk, so I've removed it.

Nazrath2112 · 2015-06-14T02:54:43+00:00

Feminists manipulate the system to change the system. Would this also apply to feminists?

[deleted] · 2015-06-14T02:58:02+00:00

If a guy has options it's easier to set rigid boundaries and next a woman that's being cunty. So yes, if you have to manipulate a woman to get your way you're definitely low value.

If a low value guy needs to lie to get laid then so be it. Like the saying goes, you can't con an honest man.

[deleted] · 2015-06-14T15:52:37+00:00

Dread game is essentially allowing competing interests in to your life. The opposite of dread game is being a doormat. Competition is a good thing. Keeps you on your toes!

kick6 · 2015-06-14T18:41:26+00:00

You have no desire to have your opinion changed, you just wanted to rant. Are you finished? Can you go away now?

Lonny_zone · 2015-06-14T20:05:20+00:00

You know how you feel like shit when someone manipulates you and hurts you for their own selfish self-interest?

Yes, I know how every woman I have ever dated made me feel.

You know how that makes them a shit partner?

Yes.

So now you're doing the same thing, and you are now a shit partner. A low-value partner.

You either play by the rules, or you lose the game. Sorry, I wasn't gifted with enough handsome qualities to treat millennial women with the "respect" they never earned.

ALexusOhHaiNyan · 2015-06-14T21:20:37+00:00

Yes.

I agree that RP can shed light on holding frame but it goes overboard as many if not all exclusive belief systems do.

RP never see's the other side of the story when countless girls break up with men for being "controlling assholes".

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T04:40:44+00:00

What you are describing isn't low value. What you are describing is high price.

lbspredh · 2015-06-15T15:52:43+00:00

if that title is true then why are they running the government?

capt-next-a-hoe · 2015-06-13T23:48:29+00:00

All men have mental issues. I don't even want to know the sick shit that goes on in the average guy's mind. Your best course is to do what is right for yourself only. Don't try to level with someone who has no conscience. They don't have remorse or empathy but a civilized society has taught them that feelings are apparently a thing and they, like psychopath-chameleons use that to play different roles for different occasions. They are lucky that women unfortunately project our own human traits like empathy onto them, because we are too nice to know better because the dimensions of evil they operate on are unfathomable to us. Their greediness knows no boundaries, all the love you give won't be enough because men are bad people by default.

wazzup987 · 2015-06-13T23:36:59+00:00

in other news water is wet

[deleted] · 2015-06-14T00:28:45+00:00

You got me

RareBlur · 2015-06-14T07:03:00+00:00

Dread game is a fancy term for sulking. It's childish. Rather than actually communicating and discussing problems the person acts out.

The best thing to do when it's encountered is to ignore it. Here is a good guide: http://m.wikihow.com/Deal-With-a-Lover-Who-Sulks

belletaco · 2015-06-13T22:20:27+00:00

We should remove women from schools and workforce , then we should make them never leave the house and cover their heads. If they're educated , they might start wanting to vote and they'll vote for the liberals and ruin the country once again. If they're uneducated and not allowed to leave their houses , they'll most likely never cheat on the men or question their decisions .

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T17:07:17+00:00

We are all selfish and everyone manipulates people. We are all motivated by selfishness. Even blue pill manipulates people. Red pill works on men and women. Blue pill lies to make people feel better. For example, fat is beautiful, is one of the biggest bluepill lies.

Selfish, cowardly manipulators are low-value

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Title	Selfish, cowardly manipulators are low-value
Author	Hamstronaut
Upvotes	22
Comments	231
Date	June 13, 2015 8:18 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/39qmcu/selfish_cowardly_manipulators_are_lowvalue/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/selfish-cowardly-manipulators-are-low-value.281631 https://theredarchive.com/post/281631