Discussion: Equal vs Different

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2016-02-24T00:11:53+00:00

I don't think men or women were created to do anything.

I think on average there will be some fields where men perform better and some where women do. And a lot where it's mostly even.

As long as there are no artificial barriers for either gender that seems fine to me.

haikufun · 2016-02-23T22:59:40+00:00

Legally equal is different from being different. I'm good with that. As long as I can own property, vote, get equal pay for equal work, etc., I'm good. I don't want to be a firefighter if I can't pass the physical, and I wouldn't want a male breastfeeding (in general?)

Women were created to do everything a man can't do.

This is an absurd comment because everything a man can't do involves stuff like surviving inside a volcano.

[deleted] · 2016-02-24T00:03:40+00:00

It's interesting that society is always quick to point out when women could be perceived as superior to men. But anywhere men are better than women is just evidence of oppression.

Xemnas81 · 2016-02-24T00:00:20+00:00

Women can do what the fuck they want. They're free citizens like me, and despite the deluge of parasitic post-3rd wave princesses, they as a collective have made tons of contributions to society.

They just can't expect my dick to be genetically engineered to get boners to their achievements, just as I can't expect her to get horny at my being so in touch with my emotions.

I'm sure we've already done this topic to death late last year

Disclaimer: I can find the achievements attractive, but I do not carnally want to bone the achievements. If that makes sense.

[deleted] · Tue Feb 23 22:25:46 2016 UTC

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ProbablyBelievesIt · 2016-02-24T17:44:41+00:00

I'm red as all get out but one thing that I will cede to, working in an industry with driven women and also possessing a decent neuro sci background - The male IQ bell curve is rigged due to our sex having more autism spectrum representation. This is the only reason why there are more male super geniuses. At the "average" genius range there's equal representation of both male and female. Neuroplasticity is the ability of the brain to change itself and is catalyst for cognition enhancement. They more training and education a person garners they impact their own intelligence aptitudes.

We are in effect intellectually comparable sans the presence of our sex's spergs. There are however, far better uses for female genius than becoming dronish corporate slags (hint: perpetuating the species with higher IQ'd progeny). In order for women to fulfil their higher calling of procreating, they do unfortunately have to do all the things that run counter to their feminist indoctrination including subordinating themselves to their men, being obedient, feminine, soft, compliant etc. Those are the tradeoffs. Men can't thrive unless leading in their home. For most intellectually gifted women, this is too big a compromise http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/07/smart-women-not-having-kids

They call this phenomenon the "intelligence paradox"

dakru · 2016-02-23T22:45:48+00:00

The "women were/weren't created to ..." line of thinking doesn't make sense (unless you're religious, I suppose). That's anthropomorphizing evolution. We don't have any objective purpose or role predetermined for us. We have the restriction that, to continue as a species, men need to impregnate women and women need to give birth, but that's the closest thing we have to "were were created to ...".

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T22:39:51+00:00

i don't entirely agree. there are some groups who want women to move away from more 'traditional' things, and other groups that want them to move back to those traditional things, but i'm not sure i believe either are really in control. i think most people are moderate, rather than either extreme.

i'd rather neither group existed to 'push' women around; i think the more extreme groups do have negative effects. the camp that shames women for wanting career-driven lives is as toxic as the other camp that shames them for wanting to be a homemaker. it's hard enough to decide what you want to do with your life without people disparaging things you may be interested in.

but i think it's nice that it does seem like women have more opportunities to break out of what was traditionally considered their role, now. some women never want that lifestyle, so i think it's great that those women can feel a little more at ease being who they are, as they want to be. i don't think allowing women to do things that were traditionally reserved for men or considered masculine for whatever reason is 'ruining' women or taking anything away from them.

despisedlove2 · 2016-02-25T04:47:23+00:00

What is there to think? It is about as close to a statement of reality one can think of in these matters.

I am going to save your post. Pithy and to the point.

[deleted] · 2016-02-23T22:59:17+00:00

"Equal" is a term denoting that two objects have the same magnitude. "Equivalent" is a term denoting that two objects are equal and identical. "Different" is a term denoting that two objects are not identical. "Equal" and "different" can not be compared in a "versus" configuration because they do not describe measurement of the same property.

Two objects may be equal and different if they have the same magnitude but are not identical. In that case, they are equal and not equivalent.

Men and women are equally human, and neither a penis nor a vagina is a disability. Therefore, men and women are equal in their potential to perform acts that do not require specific genitalia. This equal capability exists despite their being different because, again, "equal" and "different" do not describe measurement of the same property.

What do you think?

I think that the implicit assertion that the differences between men and women are the result of an intentional design serving some engineered purpose unrelated to reproduction is fundamentally flawed. Human male and female anatomy developed simultaneously because men and women are members of the same species.

I think that it is advantageous to assess your partner's skills, talents, capabilities, and potential independently of their gender because sacrificing the effectiveness of your partnership for the sake of belief in an arbitrary universal design is counterproductive. If your partner can do something to benefit your household, and they can do it better than you can, then encourage them regardless of what's between their legs. If you are equally proficient, then divide the labor. If you are more adept at the task, then demonstrate such. If it's a point of contention, try it each way and compare the results.

The problem with biological determinism is that it's deterministic while the distribution of proficiency (where it's quantifiable) relative to the genders is stochastic. Therefore, biological determinism conflates expectation value with guaranteed outcome. The only outcome it guarantees in reality is a set of unnecessary problems. Now, if something comes across your Facebook feed that describes the most probable proficiency distributions between genders rather than alluding to predestination based solely upon flesh inversion, then we'd have a topic.

[deleted] · 2016-02-24T00:08:44+00:00

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TheChemist158 · 2016-02-23T22:42:36+00:00

There's a bit of the naturalistic fallacy there. Even if women were created (by evolution or god) to do certain things, that does mean she should still do them? I say no. I say that people's personal preference and freedom over themselves should dictate what they do. If women "lose their uniqueness" doing things they want to do, that is their choice. We aren't a museum exhibit where you get to look at how cool and special we are. We are people and should have the choice to do what we want, and that is going to mean we sometimes choose to do things that use to be only for men.

Besides, we both evolved to survive, and most of the things required for survival (finding food, water, shelter) aren't at play anymore. Men didn't evolve to work in factories nor did women evolve to cook dinner.

alreadyredschool · 2016-02-23T22:24:02+00:00

Another prove of how feminism hurts women too.

panickedperson · 2016-02-23T22:39:17+00:00

TRPers like to state that men and women are different, and men are superior because of this.

There ARE differences between men and women, though they are not absolute and there are many outliers and exceptions. But just because men and women are different, that doesn't mean that one is better than the other, or that either one should be restricted from pursuing what they want (as long as no one is hurt).

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2016-02-23T22:54:00+00:00

exactly. Its a balance, like Yin and Yang. Masculine women lead to feminine men, which lead to a "refugee crisis."

DaphneDK · 2016-02-24T00:39:15+00:00

I see women as definitely being physical inferior, but also in general mentally a little inferior to men – especially in the capacity for original thoughts/willingness & ability to go against the common consensus. But that’s in general. You can never judge an individual on general characteristics.

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i_have_a_semicolon · 2016-02-24T05:53:00+00:00

Ya I agree. I've settled on the word balance to describe what I believe the purpose gender roles should have.

Shaenon · 2016-02-24T07:55:35+00:00

Yeah, I've heard this one. Men and women are good at different things. Specifically, men are good at all the important, valued, exciting, and human things, while women are good at waiting on men and having vaginas. And don't try to do anything else, girls, or you'll lose that feminine mystique!

An moldy oldie, but still popular among fundamentalists and men who hate having to clean their own toilets.

exit_sandman · 2016-02-24T09:51:31+00:00

"Women were created to do everything a man can't do."

Women can travel through time?

[deleted] · 2016-02-24T00:40:59+00:00

Presupposing that men and women were created with job descriptions designed for them.

Someone needs to prove that first.

[deleted] · 2016-02-25T00:26:40+00:00

The only actually unique thing that only women have that men don't is childbirth and breastfeeding. I don't see any artificial womb transplants or lactation hormone therapies for men, do you?

As a woman, this is what I see as the essence of my femininity - my ability to create life and sustain it with my own body. Nobody's going to take that from me, and I don't see anybody trying to. I don't see hordes of men wishing they could get pregnant or breastfeed.

Women weren't created to do everything a man can do.

Women can literally do everything a man can do except something that involves a penis, just not always as well. For example, a man could bench press more, but a woman could still bench press. I'd say having the ability to get pregnant and breastfeed is a pretty fair exchange for less muscle mass, at least to me. I can still grow more muscle and get a lot stronger than I currently am, but men can't do anything to get the same reproductive abilities as women.. but those abilities come with costs and responsibilities that most men also wouldn't want to deal with.

Women were created to do everything a man can't do."

Well, first of all, women weren't "created". They have evolved together with men. And, no, women aren't just walking baby incubators. We are actual people and we can do a damn more stuff than just that.

This sort of phrasing is exactly what pisses many women off - being seen as "the others". Women are the same species as men, just because they can do this one thing men can't, doesn't somehow make them less or more human. We're just human. Neither better, nor worse.

Title	Discussion: Equal vs Different
Author	statsfodder
Upvotes	12
Comments	184
Date	February 23, 2016 10:10 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4793sp/discussion_equal_vs_different/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/discussion-equal-vs-different.276038 https://theredarchive.com/post/276038

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