Plucked from AskTRP | RedPillWomen

Whisper · 2018-06-08T01:37:19+00:00

I forget her actual number but I know it can be counted with just one hand. We're technically not exclusive, but I've dropped my other plates...

[–]Ok_Philosopher 41 points42 points43 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 15 points16 points17 points 8 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Guys, do you really think that "we're technically not exclusive" is anything but chest thumping from the commenter? Let's remember the source and not lose the point.

The men & boys on AskTRP would be giving this guy a whole bunch of crap if he said "This girl is awesome and I've dropped all my other plates and decided she's the one". Use of the word technically is, I'm sure, intended so that the's not technically lying.

We take: you cannot negotiate attraction as truth. It's logical and we all feel that this is correct. The flip side of that is that you cannot negotiate commitment. You can have the talk, you can lay your cards on the table, you can make sure you are on the same long term page as the man you are dating. What you cannot do is force him to feel committed to you simply by talking it through. This is where girl game comes in. You have to make him believe that you are so awesome and perfectly suited to him, that there is no reason to let you go and other women pale in comparison.

This commenter has found a woman who is so awesome, that the other women who were giving him a steady supply of sex, pale in comparison.

[–]neveragoodtime1 Star 28 points29 points30 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You point out a meaningful difference between girl game and guy game. When a girl uses sex to get sex, she’s a slut, and when a guy uses commitment to try and get commitment, he’s a beta. They’re playing the wrong game for their gender. Girls should be using their sex as a means to commitment, and guys should be using commitment as a means to a good sexual relationship. When a girl plays by guy’s rules, trying to get sex, it’s like a soccer player kicking the ball into her own goal and thinking she scored a point. The point still goes to the guy’s team, even if it felt really good for her. Over at TRP, they help men present themselves as someone who women want to have sex with, here at RPW, the goal is to help women be someone men want to commit to. You don’t get commitment from someone by using dread game, you get it by being trustworthy and submissive.

[–]Ezaar 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LittleMissAfrodite 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperTRP Founder[S] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LuckyLittleStarModerator | Lil'Star 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]neveragoodtime1 Star 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atticus_Crowley7 points 8 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm the quoted person in Op's post, so think I should clarify.

When she and I first reconnected, I made it clear I had two side girls at the time. One thing lead to another and she and I ended up picking up where we left off. We're pretty much just taking it one step at a time now, but she made it clear that if I continued being a "fuck boy" there would be an expiration date to our arrangement. At this stage in my life (late 20's), I have hit my (admittedly somewhat gross) "goal number" so being with someone I have a connection with and can be comfortable with is more important to me now than adding more notches to my bed post. So there were no demands for monogamy, but the desire was known, and she brings well more than enough to the table (as a woman in and outside the bedroom)that it was natural for me to drop the other women, even if she hadn't made it known to me she wanted me to.

I'm on mobile so I don't feel like typing out our whole history, but I guess if y'all are curious, I'll answer questions.

[–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atticus_Crowley2 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

As long as she keeps up her end of the "bargain" so to speak, I can't imagine myself needing any more women in my life. She and I bring out the best in each other, preventing ourselves from getting lazy getting cooped up in our homes. We've discussed kids and so far the consensus is an ideal situation of two kids, a girl and a boy.

As for a being a "captain", she seems to think so, since she keeps referring to me as one, which makes me wonder if she's on this sub since this is the only place where I hear that term used. But, well...Im trying? Not perfect, sometimes I get in my head and doubt my capabilities and become paralyzed with indecision. But over the years I've gained enough wisdom to know to avoid the usual pitfalls of relationships. Still working on myself, but I feel I'm on the path to being the Man I was always meant to be, and she inspires me to be so. Plus, with what I know of most guys now days, the fact I'm even trying, more or less sets me above most....the bar for men is set depressingly low it seems.

[–]BewareTheOldMan 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lespetiteschoses 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I always took the "don't clarify exclusivity" idea to be an attempt at getting towards "don't negotiate commitment" (with maybe a dash of "don't nag" thrown in).

To me, there is every reason to set out what you want in the first couple dates to make sure you are both looking for the same thing. That's different from the talk though. The talk happens further into the relationship. If you are at three months and you have to ask if you are boyfriend and girlfriend, then I think you probably know the answer (but want it to be different). If he's not demonstrating commitment, then it's unclear to me why discussing it would change anything. And if you go for a stretch and he's not indicated that he wants to be exclusive or calls you his girlfriend, well that's telling too.

Honestly, in some ways, I think having to request commitment or exclusivity well in to the relationship is handing a man a road map. If he's not aware of how to behave in a relationship, doesn't tell you that he's thinks of you as his gf or whatever else, then is he really captain material? Is he a leader if you are nudging from behind?

[–]lespetiteschoses 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-inc 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lespetiteschoses 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-inc 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atticus_Crowley6 points 8 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperTRP Founder[S] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't sweat over it.

The anger phase isn't just a thing that happens. It's something we do to these guys on purpose, something we stoke and build up to put a spine in them.

One of the major goals is make these stop doing things that girls want just because girls want them, but instead leave to the girls the responsibility to create positive incentives (not negative incentives, like "do this, or I won't have sex with you") to give them what they want.

The male protective instinct runs so deep, and these men have been conditioned so hard to think so little of themselves, that you pretty much have to light a fire like this to get them to look after their own interests, and not actively sacrifice them to those of women.

But the reason you know you're doing what's best for you, is that you didn't do it to make her happy. Hell, she didn't even ask. You just lost interest in the old deal because the new one was better.

[–]lespetiteschoses 16 points17 points18 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]MentORPHEUSTRP Endorsed 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]lespetiteschoses 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Through good Girl Game, the woman described in OP inspired the man to voluntarily give up his other prospects, BEFORE she invoked her female prerogative to define the terms of the relationship. From the sound of it, him offering exclusivity without her explicitly demanding it is the next step of this relationship.

That's great, inspire commitment. That's our job.

But,

He has not "offered" exclusivity, he's stopped seeing his other plates. This is an important distinction for a woman. Until he's said that they're exclusive, they're not and she's just sticking around hoping they are. This is a covert contract that does her no good.

Again, no one is suggesting a woman demands or attempts to negotiate commitment. Simply clarify with the man whether or not they are indeed exclusive, and if so, make that a condition of the relationship continuing.

[–]MentORPHEUSTRP Endorsed 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lespetiteschoses 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Xtinamina 22 points23 points24 points 8 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony413 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]sonder_one1 Star 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony413 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

Okay so personally I think there is a massive difference between the two.

I'm aware that my opinion might sound a little harsh, however it comes from comparing how my brother approaches life with things I've seen & read on r/asktrp and r/redpill.

My brother is what I would consider a 'natural' alpha - someone who's had a lot of alpha traits from early childhood, seeming without much effort.

For example people always like him, he's very good at first impressions, always had girls into him, his current girlfriend of 2 years adores him, he's very sporty (rugby), good looking and successful. Also he is only 19.

However he would never dream of reading TRP and if he did I suspect he would feel quite confused by it all because for him that stuff is as natural as breathing.

Now compare that to a man who's learned alpha behaviours from theory. That man acts from his head not his instinct.

Truth is you can't learn instinct.

I want a man who's alpha traits are instinctive because being with someone for 20 years means you'll go through your share of challenges.

Hope I managed to express this clearly, I think it's an interesting topic.

[–]loneliness-inc 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

My brother is what I would consider a 'natural' alpha - someone who has exhibited a lot of alpha traits from early childhood onwards, seeming without much effort.

Lol!

You don't know anything about his internal monolog.

I know many men and I've known many men over the years. There's no such thing as a natural alpha! It doesn't exist. Sure, some men have an easier time being alpha, but to suggest that it comes as natural as breathing? You're dreaming.

Men are human doings and women are human beings. Men need to work to become something and becoming an alpha is no different.

If you wait around for a natural alpha, you may be waiting a long time... if an alpha is what you want for a LTR, you may be in for some disappointments. Both alpha and beta have pluses and minuses. The female sexual strategy of AF/BB is the desire to choose the best of both in a manner where she lives with the beta and goes to visit the alpha during her week of ovulation when she's the most horny and can put up with his shit. Sure, alphas give women tingles, but most women can't live with an alpha. The alpha is usually the "abusive" ex BF.

[–]White_pony413 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-inc 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlmightyPerun1 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

You aren't born "alpha", you become "alpha". You can't deadlift 200kg as soon as you enter the gym, you must start with an empty 20kg barbell and work up to it over the course of multiple years. It comes from experience. It's just that some guys start obtaining the experience much sooner than others.

Why? Well, i believe the most important factor are the parents. Some simply don't know how to raise a child, the end-result being a "nice soyguy" with T-levels of an 80 year old man. Simply put, children naturally try to imitate their parents and their actions, as well as any other "seniors" which might be a part of their group of friends.

Of course, genetics also play a part, but they play a very minor part. Some people are predisposed to some things, but 99% is still hard work. As for "natural leaders", well, they aren't natural leaders. They've simply learned to be leaders before the rest of their 5 year old peers.

You are born a blank slate, a "tabula rasa". How you develop into your adulthood depends on your parents to a large degree. The rest is all you. I mean, on the other side of TRP, you'll often hear that men are made, while women are born, which isn't too far from the truth. Tarzan is the equivalent of a unicorn (a perfect woman). The two don't exist.

[–]Comeandseemeforonce 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlmightyPerun3 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony413 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course the 'innate alpha' exists.

Let me explain.

Whilst I agree that human nature is malleable, there's a big difference between someone who has 'caught up' and 'Mr Innate Alpha.'

To show this difference I'm gonna use the example of comparing someone who is socially gifted with someone that is socially awkward.

Whilst we all know that social skills and charisma can be learned, it's also true that some people don't need to learn them.

To such people these skills are 'innate'... Or to put it another way they gained them so easily & at such a young age that they don't know life without them.

When I say 'natural alpha' this is essentially what I mean.

Whilst some men need to read RP theory in order to try to sculpt their nature into that of a leader, other men are 'born with it' in the sense that they've lived their entire lives from kindergarten onwards with lots of alpha traits.. and that is the man I want.

[–]Comeandseemeforonce 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AlmightyPerun2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Comeandseemeforonce5 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Ramp_Up_Then_Dump 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ramp_Up_Then_Dump 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]loneliness-inc 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Rokig 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]readingwithcoffee 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ramp_Up_Then_Dump 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Xtinamina 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BewareTheOldMan 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If a man who is knowledgeable in RP Theory and Principles makes a decision to search for a life-mate and be dedicated to one woman with direct and express intent on marriage, fatherhood, and continued self-improvement, it's not a bad idea. He's at a point in life where multiple women are no longer an ideal situation nor a desire. This is good for women seeking commitment.

This assumes a man and woman are both RP Aware and are compatible, both are informed of male and female nature, and behave accordingly to achieve a mutually beneficial and reciprocal relationship. Besides – assuming he’s doing it right, you’re not SUPPOSED to know he’s RP Aware, however his behavior, disposition, and manner will reflect well-learned RP Principles.

However, you’re correct…establishing a relationship with TRP-Aware Man who wants to continue Spinning Plates is a bad decision.

After all - Spinning Plates into one's 60s is not necessarily the best "life-goal."

[–]Accomplished_Host878 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]readingwithcoffee 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony413 11 points12 points13 points 8 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperTRP Founder[S] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

This has to do with the "terrain".

At certain times in Western civilization, while sex before marriage or outside of marriage was always a lot more frequently than people let on, it was certainly socially taboo enough so that "holding out" was seen as a reasonable position by most men.

However, circumstances have changed in ways that were both inevitable and irreversible, and this created a new world where commitment was no longer an enforceable legal condition, but a psychological state.

This means that sex is a "bargaining chip" isn't really relevant anymore. Because you can bargain for a legal contract, but you can't bargain for a psychological state.

You can no more "bargain" me into feeling a desire to stay with you, than I can "bargain" you into feeling sexually attracted to me.

[–]White_pony413 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperTRP Founder[S] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

In my experience

Well, that's the problem, isn't it?

A woman who has had one relationship has a sample size of one, and she can't sort cause from correlation from coincidence.

A woman who has had many relationships has a track record of failure.

TRP material is very simple to sort out, because men with high counts are successful and know what works, and can teach other men. To generate the theory for women, we have to dig a little deeper because female expertise cannot come solely through personal experience.

What we've learned from looking into the male side of the equation is that what kills desire is not the delay in and of itself, but the belief that the delay is being deliberately imposed. The idea that "playing hard to get" can stoke the flames of desire is mostly a combination of projection and mistaking romantic comedies for examples of male behaviour.

Male indifference tends to increase, or at least not decrease, female desire, because women are constantly surrounded by male sexual desire, to the point where it is often obnoxious or burdensome. Thus, an indifferent male is judged to be confident and high value, and a woman tends to view the act of turning him passionate as a worthwhile and surmountable challenge.

Female indifference, real or feigned, is experienced quite differently by men. Sincere female sexual desire is not ubiquitous for men, even for those who are quite desirable. It's not unattainable for high quality men, but it is always scarce enough to be a measure of success, rather than an imposition.

Thus, men find female indifference irksome or even humiliating, not exciting or endearing.

A good strategy, therefore, when refusing or delaying sex with a man whose interest you want to keep, is to use a logistical obstacle or impediment, rather than displaying a lack of desire (real or feigned).

[–]lespetiteschoses 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhisperTRP Founder[S] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]WhisperTRP Founder[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony413 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony413 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think the point is that you are suggesting that you can negotiate attraction. Which is not fundamental RP theory.

you actually can bargain for attraction

If the sex is hot because of the delay, that's likely to be a temporary state. You've spent three months building to it. However, the likelihood that a delay makes a person more attractive in the long run is slim to none. At some point, you'll have been together long enough that 3 months is negligible.

If you weren't attracted to someone originally, then a delay won't help you find him attractive after the initial excitement has worn off. Certainly there are reasons to hold off on sex, that isn't the critique. However, suggesting that it means you can bargain for attraction is off the mark on any real time scale.

If you are in a short relationship, then this is not something you would have experienced yet, so to suggest that attraction and desire can be bargained with is a limited anecdotal view at best.

[–]loneliness-inc 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]girlwithabike 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]White_pony4133 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]BewareTheOldMan3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're going back and forth on attraction...negotiable attraction, natural, etc., but it's basically "attraction is naturally occurring and never forced." It's either present or not. It's a basic TRP Tenet. More important - it's how most men behave as it relates to women.

There's theory that women can work themselves to attraction for men, but it rarely works that way for men. Most men either have initial attraction for a woman or they don't.

The only issue with a 90-day waiting period for sex is consistency. In short - is the rule the same for EVERY MAN or just the current mate and possibly future, prospective candidates? That's how the 90-day waiting period backfires for women IF a man discovers he had a vetting/waiting period that other men bypassed based on initial, uncontrollable urges for sexual activity.

Not saying that’s what you did – it’s a point of consideration that's useful for future reference and advising other women.

CC – u/girlwithabike

[–]White_pony4132 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes the time period of waiting for sex has to be consistent or else what I claimed is irrelevant! My n count is 2 and i waited 3 months with both.

Attraction is natural. What's negotiable is the point where sex intersects with commitment/relationship status.

I have seen that if the man is genuinely interested he'll wait for me. I've tried and tested. There was a guy with whom I was infatuated, however he wouldn't commit and constantly pushed for sex.. this had the opposite effect he intended, we never had sex and i ended things because his constant pushing made me suspicious.

I guess the male equivalent would be a 'gold digger' - she doesn't want you for you- just what you can buy her! I thought, 'he doesn't want me for me - just for the sex.' Delaying sex is an excellent way of spotting the time wasters that are unfit for a relationship way ahead of time.

[–]BewareTheOldMan2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]labratte1996 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TrueFacets 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CleburnCO 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Plucked from AskTRP
Author	Whisper
Upvotes	44
Comments	83
Date	June 8, 2018 1:37 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/8pfxd6/plucked_from_asktrp/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/plucked-from-asktrp.2870 https://theredarchive.com/post/2870

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