Feminist explaining female only events

Drainedsoul · 2012-10-09T05:17:16+00:00

The cognitive dissonance is dizzying.

dumbguyscene28 · 2012-10-09T05:42:51+00:00

I mostly have no problem with this. With few restrictions, private organizations should be able to have the right to include/exclude whomever they wish.

Augusta Golf Club, Victoria Reclaim the Night.

I think you can argue about the reasoning behind the event, but whatever, private group, right to freely associate (I assume they have that right in Australia), anyway, have a good time girls.

But this statement is interesting:

"This is to stand in solidarity with people who feel unsafe in the presence of male people, especially in the context of talking about violence."

Anyway, I have my doubts about how warranted it is for women to feel unsafe in the presence of men, and how valid it is for society to encourage and validate those irrational views.

But because of that statement, I assume Ms. Bastow will be okay with my opening up a Men's Business Association where men can network without having to fear women abusing us either through outright violence or more subtly by making false accusations against us.

CosmicKeys · 2012-10-09T10:18:43+00:00

"the patriarchy is still spectacularly good for men"

screams internally

ErasmusMRA · 2012-10-09T06:36:25+00:00

Forth wave feminism = tumblr feminists?

ay_ch · 2012-10-09T11:46:59+00:00

Consider the idiocy of this statement:

I am tired of so much energy being given over to trying to get men on side with feminism.

Remember, friends, this woman comes from a camp which has it that nearly all power is in the hands of men.

So, she believes that (nearly powerless) women are somehow capable of making things change without trying to attract at least a fraction of men's power.

If you accept the political assumptions of feminism, as this woman seems to, then it follows that this woman is a complete idiot on purely movement-building pragmatic grounds. Stalin was willing to sign a treaty with Hitler. An anti-communist like Nixon was nonetheless willing to go to China to court the support of Mao. And yet, this chick is unwilling to persuade men over to her side, despite whatever power she believes men to possess.

Perhaps she's also pure enough to go-without the patriarchy's evil electricity and medical technology as well? Perhaps she'd be too principled to accept the patriarchy's money? Is she not pure enough?

Yes, bully for the American men, Stephen, with their reproductive rights intact

WHAT reproductive rights are you talking about exactly, Clem my dear? In the depths of your empty-headed ignorance, my sweetheart, what is it on God's earth that you are talking about?

Point and laugh derisively at this pudding-headed creature, gents. Point and laugh.

ymanhere · 2012-10-09T14:20:37+00:00

"Yes, bully for the American men, Stephen, with their reproductive rights intact and their 19% more earnings than their full-time female counterparts."

The source cited for the 19% statistic is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

However even the wiki article states that the "statistic does not take into account differences in experience, skill, occupation, education or hours worked, as long as it qualifies as full-time work."

So once again, it's a simple assertion meant to paint the picture that women are paid less for exact same work with exact same experience. I also like the article getting exasperated about why women can't just have one women only event. I'm sure all those women only gyms, spas, etc are a myth then.

OuiCrudites · 2012-10-09T11:38:27+00:00

Femsplaining!

Manatee7474 · 2012-10-09T06:53:58+00:00

So the 'night' originally belonged to a group of ignorant, self-deluded, hate mongering harpies?

I suppose they have a point only wanting to venture out after dark....

EDIT:Grammar

JamesRyder · 2012-10-09T12:58:57+00:00

"But for the most part, the patriarchy is still spectacularly good for men (it’s why they earn more than us for the same work, to begin with)"

Stopped reading there. My fingers will go raw from Ctrl-V'ing the UK government data disproving the gender wage gap.

rebuildingMyself · 2012-10-09T07:10:11+00:00

tl;dr: It's okay if women do it. Stop bitching, guys!

CptSeaCow · 2012-10-09T14:04:29+00:00

Via the idea of Daulm (we should stop giving her hits)

Now that we are four years into the fourth wave of feminism, I feel it’s an appropriate time to take stock, have a ‘work in progress’ meeting, and air any grievances we might have about the way the fight is going. Here’s mine: men.

I am tired of so much energy being given over to trying to get men on side with feminism. I am sick of self-appointed male feminists criticising women’s approach to feminism. I am tired of seeing feminists expending column inches talking about how the patriarchy hurts men, too.

Sure, patriarchal ideals of masculinity are problematic, as is war. But for the most part, the patriarchy is still spectacularly good for men (it’s why they earn more than us for the same work, to begin with). The more time we spend discussing men’s issues as feminist issues, the less space there is for the discussion of issues - many of them life-or-death - that plague women.

I see fellow feminists go blue in their virtual faces online, trying to convince male doubters that feminism is a good thing. If a man demonstrates feminist behaviour, he is praised from the rooftops.

Advertisement And good on the man who can appreciate feminist ideals, though as they say on the internet, just because he knows the basics of decent human behaviour, he doesn’t deserve a cookie.

One of the most problematic aspects of the fourth wave has become the amount of time and energy devoted to blokes. Can they be feminists? Should we be nicer to them so that they will be feminists? Men: what can they teach us about feminism?

It’s this sort of rubbish that leads to people saying things like “I call myself a gender equalist”. It leads to thunderous inanities like Stephen Marche’s The contempt of women in September’s Esquire, which features this actual sentence: “One of the real triumphs of American men over the past thirty years is that they’ve never taken to gender-based activism”. Yes, bully for the American men, Stephen, with their reproductive rights intact and their 19% more earnings than their full-time female counterparts.

The perfect crystallisation of this problem is the continued debate over the perceived “gender inclusiveness” - lack thereof - of Reclaim The Night (Take Back The Night in some cities).

This approach has coloured much of the discussion of Reclaim The Night Sydney Road, an event planned in the wake of the alleged rape and murder of Jill Meagher. As their event description puts it, "The Sydney Rd march will be led by groups of women and any woman wishing to participate are welcome at the front. Women are welcome to bring their children to this leading group. Women-identifying members of our community are also most welcome in this first group. Following this first group, we invite men - along with any women who’d like to march with them - to join us in solidarity."

While I commend its organisers for mobilising a large part of the community to protest street violence, I don’t think that the Sydney Road event should use the title ‘Reclaim The Night’. It may seem like semantics to a casual observer but the notion of reclaiming the night and the actual movement with that name are very different.

Here is a succinct explanation of Reclaim The Night, from the Domestic Violence Resource Center Victoria’s previous events: “[RTN is] open to all women and their children. It is asked that people who are not female identified/bodied/socialised or trans or gender variant self-exclude from the event this year. This is to stand in solidarity with people who feel unsafe in the presence of male people, especially in the context of talking about violence. This however is not to undermine or invisibilise the experience of women who have experienced violence from female partners or family members.”

It’s pretty simple, and yet time and time again, debate turns to men and male-identified people who are up in arms: “But I’m not a rapist! I don’t support intimate partner violence! Why can’t I come?!”

Not all men are determined to muscle in on traditionally female-only spaces in order to demonstrate that they are “not like other men”. In the comments on the RTN Sydney Road page, a number of thoughtful comments were left by men who appreciate that their presence might be problematic. “Men standing back as women reclaim the night, to me this is a powerful symbol. I will happily show my support and involvement by standing aside,” commented Sean Spencer.

For the most part, however, comments such as Sean’s are in the minority. Men - who have enjoyed centuries of gender-based superiority - just can’t seem to believe that there is a need for an event (just one event!) that excludes them.

Once more with feeling: it is okay for an event to be a female-only space. Sometimes, it is damn well necessary. The fight against sexual violence is not like Highlander: there must not be only one. There should be countless protests, all under different banners, and more and more people must mobilise against violence in our community. The reductive notion that “too many cooks spoil the broth”, or that only having one protest somehow makes it more powerful, is unhelpful in the extreme.

So, Reclaim The Night is female-only: it is one event. People who can’t attend RTN can attend SlutWalk. People who don’t feel comfortable with aspects of the SlutWalk movement can join another movement, or begin their own. From little things, big things grow, as the tale goes.

It’s the same with feminism. If men want to fight the good fight alongside us, good for them. But if we spend our precious time dismantling feminism so as to make it more comfortable for men, or more attractive to them, or just letting men march in and take the reins, then we just end up right back where we started from.

misandry_doesnt_real · 2012-10-09T12:15:22+00:00

BUT GUYS, NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE LIKE THAT

/s

BobbyTomale · 2012-10-09T15:06:39+00:00

"Sure, patriarchal ideals of masculinity are problematic, as is war."

I like how she just sort of mentions war in passing. "Sure, war's a problem; but let's talk about serious issues. Men want to walk in the same protest as me!"

I always get a kick out of upper middle class white women complaining about how hard they have it.

ExpendableOne · 2012-10-09T14:06:29+00:00

If a man demonstrates feminist behaviour, he is praised from the rooftops.

In what universe does this lady live in? Male feminists are treated pretty poorly by feminist and non-feminist women alike, and are generally completely disregarded/belittled sexually as well. Feminist men are the men who end up being emotionally taken advantage of the most, so much so that they end up feeling like it's the way it should be and end up championing or enabling that kind of mistreatment from women. To be a male feminist, you pretty much have to be someone who resents himself for being male; and that is not okay.

But if we spend our precious time dismantling feminism so as to make it more comfortable for men

Dismantling feminism with what? Basic facts? Reality? Equality? Why would making something comfortable for men be a bad thing? How is excluding men, or judging men exclusively on gender, a good or egalitarian goal?

DerpaNerb · 2012-10-09T15:03:52+00:00

I stopped reading when she said that feminism was : " the basics of decent human behaviour"

How people like this claim to be anything but sexist/misandrist is unbelievable.

daulm · 2012-10-09T12:44:19+00:00

It seems counter-productive to link to this article... why support the author?

2012-10-09T13:50:34+00:00

i don't know what's worse- article or comments. glad to see someone chipped in and said not all guys are privileged, though whoever's in charge will probably remove that and make a huge song and dance about "MRAs invading our spaces"

Ma99ie · 2012-10-09T16:43:11+00:00

[permanently deleted]

DavidByron · 2012-10-09T19:29:37+00:00

This essay needed to be written because feminism is just too male-friendly.

Miracle_Fruit · 2012-10-09T19:44:17+00:00

It’s this sort of rubbish that leads to people saying things like “I call myself a gender equalist”.

Apparently egalitarianism, or hell, even the constitution is rubbish now. All of mankind created equal? Bah!

Seriously though, putting the gender/race switch into some of these paragraphs gives some hideous stuff.

“[RTN is] open to all whites and their children. It is asked that people who are not white self-exclude from the event this year. This is to stand in solidarity with people who feel unsafe in the presence of black people, especially in the context of talking about violence.”

This is basically exactly why segregation existed. Anybody who defends shit like this is really not thinking clearly or fairly.

Imthere · 2012-10-09T16:05:02+00:00

Men are excluded from "reclaim the night". Not because the women are afraid of them. But because it looks better.

"See? Only women are marching in to protest rape. All men are rapists."

If the march allowed men, it would look ridiculous. A representative cross-section of society would be in the march. So... they would be marching to support something that everyone believes in. Which means there's no problem.

Hamakua · 2012-10-09T16:36:24+00:00

Michael Johnson is in town and he is welcome to join in the art show and the indoor festivities. Well, he thought he was, until he remembered he has a penis and has to sit outside with all the other blokes.

Michael Johnson calls a wool show organizer.

HeadingTooNFL · 2012-10-09T20:19:15+00:00

When I read "reproductive rights intact", my jaw dropped open

Sebatron · 2012-10-10T01:07:40+00:00

One of the most problematic aspects of the fourth wave has become the amount of time and energy devoted to blokes. Can they be feminists? Should we be nicer to them so that they will be feminists? Men: what can they teach us about feminism?

It’s this sort of rubbish that leads to people saying things like “I call myself a gender equalist”.

I don't think that is the reason why the majority of egalitarians don't want to label themselves feminists.

irishsnowday · 2012-10-10T06:47:30+00:00

Honestly, I'm getting tired of this misandry. Everyone should have a right to free speech, but I don't understand why this kind of hate speech goes unchallenged.

Instead, for hating an entire gender she will be praised, and empowered. She will empower others to hate half the world, causing further animosity and distancing ourselves from world peace.

This is the problem with feminism. It may be one of the greatest threats to gender equality that has ever existed. Anyone who fights for women's rights or men's rights should oppose feminism.

2012-10-09T12:46:33+00:00

What a wanker.

Title	Feminist explaining female only events
Author	memymineown
Upvotes	53
Comments	51
Date	October 9, 2012 5:14 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/116ku0/feminist_explaining_female_only_events/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminist-explaining-female-only-events.1011773 https://theredarchive.com/post/1011773

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