I'm putting a few people on notice.

zap · 2010-06-12T17:03:38+00:00

This is puzzling and a mistake. There was nothing in that exchange worthy of banning. Nor, as far as I can see, did anyone challenge this subreddit's "right to exist."

Furthermore, alienating self-described MRAs like erszebet_b from the community makes little sense.

In contrast, someone like catlebrity can be irritating and his posts may occasionally border on trolling, but let's face it: even he performs a service in providing an alternative viewpoint and keeping people honest.

If there is a general problem with this subreddit, it is that there is way too much meta-talk. This very thread is a case in point.

Just my $.05.

Mitchellonfire · 2010-06-12T18:15:35+00:00

MensRights

8,875 readers

For men and supporters of men: discuss the comparative treatment of men and women in the media (news and entertainment) and in the law, especially concerning sexual harassment, sexual assault, domestic violence, and divorce. Diverging viewpoints are welcome. Thought-provoking posts are encouraged.

2010-06-12T18:08:46+00:00

Well I don't like this one bit.

I don't know about the others, but I thought cryptogirl was a positive contributor to this reddit and don't see anything that warranted banning.

stemgang · 2010-06-12T16:13:12+00:00

Many subreddits have informal mutual moderation policies that require mods to discuss and mutually approve a ban before it is carried out. In light of ignatiusloyola's preference not to ban people...

Did you discuss this with ignatius beforehand?

Will these bans be reversed upon appeal, or for good behavior, etc?

Mitchellonfire · 2010-06-12T18:01:07+00:00

This is what I've long warned against. This is horrendous. I thought /r/malestudies was created because people cannot handle having their views challenged.. now it's happening here.

Just because I've asked people not to hate on women here I have repeatedly been called a feminist plant troll. I was PREEMPTIVELY banned from /r/malestudies. How long till I am banned here too for not agreeing with the extreme?

JamminCrumpets · 2010-06-12T17:22:46+00:00

As a person that has been banned, at one time or another, from feminisms and twoxchromosomes, I understand why people feel that the free flow of ideas is more important than "staying on message." Do we really want to happen to mensrights what alvaspiral has done to feminisms - i.e. making it a dead reddit?

MercatorWhiteAlt · 2010-06-13T02:59:29+00:00

@ kloo2yoo

After making the post in question, I came back to the topic to read a number of insightful points, one of which was yours. The next morning, I saw that you had banned my account, for "repeatedly disrupting conversation." Apparently, I had also pissed you off by forcing a whackacontributor game. (FTFY)

.

I want to assure you that upon reading your explanation, I find little in what you say that puts us, by any stretch, at odds ideologically.

.

Points on which we can agree:

I don't want to see malebashing or femalebashing.

I want this place to be a discussion about rights, not a woman-hater's club, or a man-hater's club.

If you hate women or hate men, you may need counseling.

.

Unfortunately, in your decision to ban my account, you may well have confirmed the fears that I have about /r/MensRights. I wrote what I know to be (as fishwish and zap have observed) nothing more than an open invitation to join a related subreddit. (If you believe that discussion regarding the rights of all is incompatible with discussion for the rights of men, don't bother reading further.) I did so for the benefit of /r/MensRights readers. I will explain why.

I believe that a person has rights because they are a person. I understand that different genders, ethnicities, religious persuasions and age groups have had, historically and currently, different experiences and have been subjected or empowered by an array of social dynamics and injustices. I am not pretending that there is one solution to varying, complex problems, and I am certainly not declaring that one group will see always improvements in the recognition of their rights by hopping onto the movement tailored for another group. History seems to have shown us that each movement must be self-driven, guided and powered by the energy and convictions of the individuals in question.

The weakness that I worry may be inherent to many social movements is that a given group must first qualify as a victimized one before they will be seriously considered. [Victim] seems to be the license for activism. But what is to come when someone contests the validity of another's [Victim] ticket. "Well, men don't really have it that bad." Bad? Compared to whom? Compared to women? Your response, as this subreddit's response seems very predictably to be, is that "Yes, we really do have it that bad. Have you not read this article? Have you not seen this statistic? Did you not hear about this father? This boy?" And just as predictably, your opponent will respond, "Well, women experience this, and in these countries women are victimized in this way, and these occurrences are always higher for women." If they're right, a claim to a men's rights movement may be nullified. That is, if it depends on your producing proof that men have it bad, or worse, or what have you.

But what if your claim to human rights is not dependent on your victimization of your gender, but inherent to your being? What if you only need to present yourself to claim your rights? What if your right to fair treatment and application or law doesn't end when most members, or the most visible members, of your movement have a pretty decent situation. What if you don't need to, when your rights are being violated, be able to point to another person whose suffering the same injustice, but be satisfied that you deserve rights because you deserve rights.

And that, in short, is the only thing I am advocating. I am not saying that MensRights will not be legitimate or necessary unless it has human rights as its foundation, and I'm not saying that none of its members have that in mind. I am saying that while we decry the "pussy pass" (a term that must go), we can't forget that our rights are not validated by any type of "penis pass", but by only by our humanity. I am also saying that we would benefit ourselves and others by bringing our conversations to a wider audience. Finally, I am suggesting that many of you, heaven forbid, may have an interest in reading and writing about - in addition to gender - racial, religious, class, and age equality.

But darn, those suggestions are just about as inflammatory as it gets. You're right. Silence that scheming, passive-aggressive, distraction before it "derails" all nine thousand of you. Or should I say instead - to the moderators - offends all two of you.

.

@ ignatiusloyola

Here, in the comments of the post in question, you express sentiments that are completely in line with the concerns I voiced. Come Saturday morning you "have kloo2yoo's back" in his decision to ban the author of that post.

.

Readers, please see my long list of /r/MensRights comments (the first, the second) for a comprehensive summary of my disruptive conversation.

fishwish · 2010-06-12T14:24:24+00:00

The referenced post appears to be more of an invitation to joing r/equality.

Also, why sweat the occassional troll. Isn't that what downvotes are for. Community moderation works.

Orsenfelt · 2010-06-12T15:24:31+00:00

You lot are a bunch of fucking drama whores, you know that.

I'm a guy, I like equality, so I frontpaged MensRights. Since then it's pretty much nothing but self posts bitching about people who disagree or troll the subreddit. More time is spent worrying about how disruptive the 'other side' are than anything else.

Get a fucking grip, downvote and move on. It's only the internet, not the sodding UN. I'm out.

Gareth321 · 2010-06-12T22:40:23+00:00

I strongly disagree with this, kloo. You have been down this road before and it's not productive for anyone.

OffYerMedsAgainKloo · 2010-06-13T07:53:46+00:00

It's time for you to take a break, kloo. Give up your modding powers again, and get some help. For your own sake.

HeyMRreddit · 2010-06-13T08:29:23+00:00

HEY /r/mensrights...

Are you happy with our moderation? Yes?

OK! Then we'll do something completely opposite! Problem?

temp9876 · 2010-06-12T18:12:20+00:00

I suppose I should beware the banhammer, but you know I'm going to keep right on disagreeing with you until it hits. There is more to be gained by the MR movement from hearing different views than from silencing them.

boredatheist · 2010-06-13T07:37:54+00:00

This is bullshit. kloo2yoo needs to give up his moderator status immediately.

Are you mods paying attention at all? Are you seeing all the downvotes next to your names? Wake the fuck up. You're living in a paranoid fantasy world where anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "troll" or a nutty feminist.

This subreddit is NOT being taken over by feminists. It is being taken over by FASCIST MODERATORS WITH EGO ISSUES who ban people for no fucking reason.

I have a penis, by the way. I guess I have to mention that, or else I'm a second class citizen around here, huh? Fucking bullshit.

stemgang · 2010-06-12T14:18:24+00:00

So, that's it for the hands-off approach? Now it's banning disagreement time?

Didn't we just have a topic where the general agreement was that the hands-off approach was still the best?

I can't say I'm pleased to hear this.

Edit: We've got MaleStudies for the ban-everybody approach. Let the people who like that go there, and not ruin this subreddit.

Also, my real complaint is with banning anybody, but you've even set the bar pretty low. You didn't exactly pick people who are routinely the most downvoted comments or anything. Clearly, the community often agrees with them.

Hell, I spent a long time in a back-and-forth with one of those where they didn't contribute anything, didn't seem to listen to me, and spent all their responses on snarky remarks. It was a complete waste of my time in the end. And I'm still against banning them.

jeff0 · 2010-06-12T16:01:24+00:00

Huh? I've generally enjoyed the perspective that cryptogirl and erszebet_b have added to the discussion (I'm not familiar with the other two, but they didn't seem to say anything particularly horrible in the referenced comments). It's nice to have outspoken ladies around to prevent this subreddit from becoming an emotionally driven circle-jerk.

2010-06-12T19:05:38+00:00

Bad judgment call - making moderation policy on how irritating you personally find posters isn't a good idea, and undermines your credibility as a mod, especially when the mods of this reddit have advertised it as "hands off" (the best policy).

There's already a moderated men's rights reddit - if people wanted that they'd go there, evidence suggests the opposite however.

Not that anyone would miss me, but if this reddit goes down the path of subjective comment-moderation then I'd rather spend my time in /r/politics

impotent_rage · 2010-06-12T15:35:38+00:00

This goes against everything Reddit stands for. We have upvoting/downvoting for a reason, so that moderators don't go on powertrips and exclude those they disagree with, because the community can regulate itself.

I'm thoroughly and utterly disgusted. I've unsubscribed from this reddit and I won't be back. I'm going to r/equality instead. I have no interest in being a part of a community where moderators think that this is acceptible.

Zolty · 2010-06-12T17:25:54+00:00

Is baning really that effective? It's not like it is hard to get a new reddit account.

DOGA · 2010-06-12T22:12:37+00:00

An (incomplete) list of posts involving the affected users (posted as replies to this to make it easier to hide this wall of text). Ordered by date (oldest to newest).

Pardon the unicode fail.

orzpartypartyorz · 2010-06-12T15:16:08+00:00

I was about ready to leave this place and not come back, so thanks, I guess i'll be sticking around a little longer.

As I've said before, i'd rather be moderated by a few accountable moderators then by a mob of chronically offended feminists.

mayonesa · 2010-06-12T14:26:08+00:00

Good. Get rid of people who exist here for no reason other than to subvert, undermine and criticize.

Passive aggression sucks.

2010-06-12T14:09:49+00:00

Wow! Thank you kloo2yoo!

Let's hope this move ushers back in a wave of peaceful intellectual discussions!

This place used to be known for that but since it's gaining popularity, it's now become more of a target among the extremists. Congrats! MRM is getting so big people are trying to take it down by off-topic strawman arguments and hours and hours of trolling. I'm very glad you see through all that.

Rygarb · 2010-06-12T19:21:48+00:00

What a pleasant Saturday morning surprise.

The only person missing is the concern troll atomicparrot.

When they are added, the list will be complete.

Subversive · 2010-06-12T15:59:04+00:00

I encourage everyone to install plugins like this one:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60141/

Which show the up/down votes for each comment on reddit. Many of these comments have 2, 1, 0 points but have 12 up and 11 down votes. It shows the level of activity here.

EDIT: 30 minutes after i posted this comment and 4 up, 2 down. (4|2)

stemgang · 2010-06-12T14:47:32+00:00

Some moderation at last! Thank you. Consider also, from yesterday. the continuous abuses of atomicparrot:

I am not going to ban people. (this was ignatiusloyola)

Exactly what, if anything, would it take to get you to ban someone? For example, right now atomicparrot is claiming to be an alternate account of tomek77.

What a pathetic move - if you want to argue with me, at least have the balls to do it with your main account.

Tomek77 is just one of my other reddit accounts I use to post sometimes, I usually use that account when I'm pretending to be an angry kid with poor reading comprehension.

Now if this should turn out to be untrue...and I think we all know damn well that it is untrue, will you do anything?

In any moderated forum, account spoofing, or claiming to be another user, is pretty much an invitation to be IP-banned and account-deleted.

kloo2yoo · 2010-06-12T22:50:33+00:00

they may be invited back, sometime in the future.

impotent_rage · 2010-06-12T19:07:01+00:00

Please consider banning atomicparrot as well. This person is a known troll.

2010-06-12T17:07:22+00:00

I'm not even active here on reddit anymore and I agree.

Inconnu2u · 2010-06-12T21:28:57+00:00

Thank you kloo2yoo! The only person missing from that list is atomicparrot.

2010-06-12T22:06:15+00:00

Well done kloo2yoo. Hopefully this place will go from strength to strength now.

As for erszebet_b/catlebrity - feminist trolls are bad enough, but feminist trolls who choose to name themselves after infamous child murderers are simply vile and in need of serious psychiatric help fast. (erszebet Bathory is the hungarian name of 'Elizabeth Bathory', or 'countess dracula', so named because she horrifically tortured, murdered, then bathed in the blood of hundreds of adolescent girls through jealousy and in the vain hope that it would restore her youth. Many radical feminists see her as some kind of tragic heroine and role model.)

2010-06-13T00:15:42+00:00

Its about time these people were banned. they use every diversionary tactic in the book, they are not here for honest discussion they are here to sabotage.

thetrollking · 2010-06-14T02:26:15+00:00

http://trollkingdom.blogspot.com/

2010-06-13T00:30:52+00:00

catlebrity, cryptogirl, and atomicparrot are some of the most man-hatingest posters here. Banning posters who troll a men's rights reddit constantly is something that has been a long time coming. I just don't want to see it go the other way, where moderators dictate how a men's rights advocate shall express his views.

Title	I'm putting a few people on notice.
Author	kloo2yoo
Upvotes	11
Comments	174
Date	June 12, 2010 1:59 PM UTC (16 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ce9j0/im_putting_a_few_people_on_notice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/im-putting-a-few-people-on-notice.1049136 https://theredarchive.com/post/1049136

Comments