What does being 'left-wing' mean for you as a male advocate?

ByronsLastStand · 2021-06-02T14:41:51+00:00

Left wing to me simply means an economic position, I'll be honest. I believe most people here would mean it in the sense of non-conservative, in part due to how "left" and "right" are typically used in everyday discourse. I would call myself a social liberal more than anything else.

The-Author · 2021-06-02T15:30:48+00:00

Being left-wing, for me, has two aspects; economic and cultural/ political.

Economically I believe being left wing is about creating and economic system that supports everyone and benefits everyone. Instead of disproportionately benefiting a few people and actively harming other groups of people like our current economic system does.

Culturally/ politically I believe being left wing means that no-one should be judged for inherent characteristics beyond their control such as race, gender, sexuality etc within reason. I believe that everyone should be held to the same standards as much as reasonably possible.

Kierran169 · 2021-06-02T16:02:31+00:00

I'm left in that I like welfare and free healthcare, environment protection, limiting monopolies, workers rights. I'm progressive, I believe in drug decriminalization and gay marriage.

TheQuestioner235 · 2021-06-02T16:27:14+00:00

To me, being left wing means wanting what's best for the world. Equal rights, economic change, a clean environment. Really, it goes pretty hand-in-hand with a lot of our ideals here.

LettuceBeGrateful · 2021-06-03T09:35:05+00:00

I think it was feminism that should get the honor of making me first doubt that what is left-wing always is good.

Left-wing and right-wing are such umbrella terms that I find them useless. Political opinions are so rich and deep that a binary distinction can't get the job done. I knew a woman who called herself a left-leaning liberal feminist, but she was overall very moderate and understanding of men's issues. I've known others who are full-on communists. Same for the right: it's almost paradoxical how people associate both ultra-conservative tyranny and anarchist libertarianism with right-wing extremes.

So, left-wing isn't always good, and right-wing isn't always good. They both cast a very wide net.

For me personally, the "left wing" male advocacy is very simple: socially I lean left, in the sense that I believe in left-wing values of enlightenment, liberalism, and individualism when extending human rights to all.

Overall I'm probably centrist, and maybe even a bit right-of-center (I'm definitely right-of-average compared to my peers), but social inclusion is still important to me. This sub increasingly works for me because it seems to embrace the social aspect of left-wing politics, without alienating people like me who are more classically liberal-minded overall.

BloomingBrains · 2021-06-02T17:53:56+00:00

Whenever I take the political compass test, I usually end up in the bottom left quadrant, but usually farther to the left than down which I don't think is accurate. I've noticed some of those tests don't ask questions that, if I had answered them, would have made me score more conservative. And I definitely do have some conservative-leaning views on certain social issues as well as economic (for example, I'm for socialism, but not to an extreme degree). Overall though I think I'm probably more of a left-leaning moderate.

What's interesting though is that "left vs. right" doesn't refer to liberal vs. conservative, which people often use interchangeably. You can be an ultra hardcore capitalist libertarian, for example. So in theory this sub should be about how unregulated capitalism intersects with mens issues, which is a discussed topic, though things often tend towards arguments about social egalitarianism as well.

For me though its less about politcs, and more the fact that this is a place where once can talk frankly about mens issues without people trying to totally blue pill you, or the nasty right wing/red pill undertones either.

I definitely started off being anti-feminist from a young age due to family influence, but it was also coming from a (still moderate) but mainly right-leaning point of view. When I got older I started getting pulled a bit more right by other mens groups, before realizing what was happening. And now I'm probably more left than anyone else in my family, but at the same time, less left than a lot of friends and people I know. I have always and still do see big problems with the far regressive left.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-06-03T11:15:20+00:00

Well, first of all, I'm French, which is generally more left leaning than the US. Then. I'm left, even in France. I'm in my mid thirties, and I have seen how more and more right leaning economic policies have affected us.

We used to have one of the best Healthcare system in the world. It is being systematically destroyed to go towards the "model" of the USA, which is more like hell on earth. It has been going on since before I was born, and we have felt its impact full force with the pandemic. It should go back to being fully publicly funded, provided there's a standard of proof to recognize the efficacy of the method (it was a good thing we finally got rid of homeopathy refunds, although more should be done on that front)

I believe in public education, but I also think that it needs to be improved and lacks massive fundings to help have it become good again, no longer at 30 to 40 per classes. I also believe it needs all sorts of changes to help it enter the 21st century (yup, they're decades late on that front, like all our administrations). I believe we should nationalize back our public transports, our energy production and those tactical resources, and that the politicians that privatized them were guilty of high treason.

I believe that with the progress of automation and AI, it becomes urgent to shift our society from a model centered around work/production to a different model, possibly through UBI and increased focus/value placed on community work, associations, care to the people and so on.

I believe that with the advance of technology, it has become even easier to have something akin to an actual democracy, where the people are truly directly involved, and that our political system needs to be completely revamped from scratch, to include things like vote systems that allow to effectively represent the true opinion of people, random selection of citizens to hold political offices to vote laws for a set duration, with the possibility of involving expert council to inform them if need be.

Socially, I believe that people should mind their own business so long as they don't bother other people. You put your cock into whatever consenting adult the way you like it, and it shouldn't be anyone's problem. You pray to whatever you like so long as you don't enforce that on anyone else.

I genuinely believe that all humans have equal worth and should be treated equally by the law, which is why I became interested in male advocacy.

Oncefa2 · 2021-06-02T14:48:06+00:00

I'm pretty far left in the socialist sense but I stop short of wanting to murder rich people, or really even wanting a full scale revolution.

I've noticed that a lot of far left ideas jive with some moderate conservatives (and centrists) if you use the right terminology and present things in the right way, which is probably why some leftists get accused of being "conservative".

All that really shows though is that most people are pretty similar and want similar things, we're just artificially divided by the ruling class to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. I mean that sentiment by itself is strong among conservatives, centrists, and the far-left (which is where anti-feminism and anti- id politics come into play, something that conservatives and centrists also agree with). It's mostly just liberals (who promote id politics) and the far-right (who promote their own version of id politics) who can't seem to get on board with this. I mean if you go far left enough you start supporting gun rights again because arming the public is a necessary step in starting a revolution. Which basically mirrors the conservative talking point on that (the difference is leftists want a revolution, or at least the threat of a revolution to enact policy change... whereas a lot of right wingers just seem to be rebellious and edgy for the sake of being rebellious).

LacklustreFriend · 2021-06-02T18:20:08+00:00

To echo some of the other commenters, I find the left-right distinction become increasing irrelevant in contemporary politics. I think separating economic leftism from social leftism is extremely important.

But sticking to the traditional understandings of left-right. I consider myself economically left insofar as I believe that essential industries and natural monopolies should be nationalised, and I'm generally against privatisation without good cause. However, I do believe the free market is a powerful tool when appropriate. So I generally support a mixed economy and policies generally associated with it (e.g. strong welfare state). In this sense, economically I'm probably a social democrat or democratic socialist depending on what your threshold definition of "socialism" is.

Socially I think it's much harder for me to describe myself, largely because I have quite a lot of heterodox views on social issues, and social issues are often distinct and unique unlike economic issues. I might have a "conservative" stance on one issue but a "liberal" stance on another, or maybe even a stance completely outside the current paradigm. But if I had to summarise I would probably describe myself as centrist on social issues, as poor of a descriptor that is.

My political and social views continue to evolve and change. I sometimes reread old comments I have made on this account from not that longer ago and often find myself thinking, "I wouldn't phrase that sentence that way if I wrote that now" or something similar.

Interestingly I find myself increasing aligning (though not completely) with Christian democracy and Christian socialism (Christian social democracy?). I am not particularly religious, I consider myself a cultural Catholic (and maybe a deist, but I'm not sure if that's something I'll ever figure out), but I do recognise the utility and importance of religion (or of moral systems to generalise). So when I say align with Christian democracy and socialism, I mean it in the sense I see a need to have a shared, universal moral foundation in society that is not simply materialist, not that it has to be Christian per se. It's just that Christian democracy and Christian socialism are the most developed of these ideologies and most culturally familiar to me.

griii2 · 2021-06-02T15:58:15+00:00

'left-wing' is simply an overloaded term. I would recommend looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart.

Personally, I would never label myself as a left wing, even though I support free education and healthcare, equal rights, legalisation of drugs etc. I feel strongly against snowflakism, safe spaces, cultural appropriation, cancel culture, the grievance studies, but also the US version of conservativism, trumpism, anti-science etc.

Why I am in this sub and not the other one is simply becuase I do not like the redpill/mgtow smell in there :D

Blackprussian · 2021-06-02T17:27:28+00:00

Off-Topic = The Political Compass isn't an accurate ideology measurement, it should be taken more as a very approximate location, and 8axes test is far more accurate.

On the topic is...economic system, for the progressivism vs conservatism, they *aren't* in anyway left or right

resU_tiddeR_A_toN · 2021-06-02T18:31:16+00:00

I dont really get an appeal from any wing, I dont consider myself as a left wing person nor a right wing person. I just dont think that everything from the right is bad, nor that everything of the left is good. When I did a quiz of politic views, I ended in the top corner, right in the middle between left and right. Personally, Im a libertarian or what used to be a liberal. Still tho, I love this sub, people tend not to be toxic and actually want to have a discussion. They are willing to listen.

TheBananaKing · 2021-06-03T03:58:25+00:00

To me it means a basically socialist-progressive ethos.

A lot of MRA spaces have been driven towards a traditionalist audience that's basically a cross between a bunch of Texas bumper stickers and a Trump rally.

Most progressive spaces tend to be heavily anti-MRA, and people in them are chilled out of expressing pro-male sentiments or being seen to visit MRA spaces.

This filtering effect tends to happen from both ends - as the remaining population in MRA spaces becomes increasingly traditionalist, they start seeing progressives as the enemy, and making them increasingly unwelcome, which only speeds up the process.

It's ugly as shit tbh.

I refuse to compromise on my socialist-progressive ideals, but I don't want to be railroaded out of compassion for men.

That's why I'm here.

Rockbottom503 · 2021-06-11T10:09:01+00:00

I wouldn't really call myself left wing. The extremes of the left are just as bad as the extremes of the right, my politics are very much rooted in the middle ground.

DeepFriedWine · 2021-06-02T18:41:40+00:00

Left of the professional managerial class that has emerged from the university system over the last 25 years and is 'woke.' Liberal capitalists looking for win-win corporate/public partnerships that are Potemkin versions of equality that only elevate a few token representatives of a supposed oppressed group delineated by race, gender, and sexual orientation. All under the justification that discriminating by race, gender, and sexual orientation is wrong. The subversion of any sort of class struggle to capitalism with socially progressive branding. The subversion of the entire leftist movement to navel-gazing arguments about gender, oppression olympics, and university educated yuppies arguing about who has more privilege. The total lack of self-reflection combined with rampant hypocrisy. The abandonment of any sort of international humanitarian or workers collective efforts. Left of that.

Also the environment. Even the flawed IPCC calls for a radical rebuilding of Western civilization and I'm sorry, Teslas and 'carbon offset' international jet travel does not fit the bill.

Blauwpetje · 2021-06-02T14:41:41+00:00

Edited in response to comments hereunder.

In my opinion, left means equality and freedom, two of the extremes of the axis you refer to. A leftist will want to change the fundamnetals of society to make it more free and equal. A rightwinger will want to reinforce the existing power structures (religion, capitalism, nation, traditiôns...). These are in my opinion the causes of inequalities and limitations to personnal choice that leftists fight. Centrism is trying to have it both ways: keep the power structures, but change the outcome in terms of equality and freedom.

In my opinion, neither male advocacy nor feminism are by definition on the left, although sometimes feminism is adequated with the left, and that's pretty much the problem with the left: ID politics, and smokescreen issues in general.

ID politics, such as quotas, affirmative action or any policy that takes identity rather than situation into account, is not leftist because it's trying to solve a problem without removing its cause. It amounts to trying hard not to change society, but adjust it. And that by essence is a centrist attitude.

The only true left is trying to change power structures (the real ones, not the imaginary ones like "the patriarchy").

In other words, to me, the only real left wants to change constitutionnal orders to bring forth something closer to actual democracy, and the economic system towards something cooperative. Everything else is centrism at best.

Specific issues such as gender equality, anti racism, queer rights, the environment... are important but secondary: they can only truly be solved when the power structures have been toppled. Otherwise we are just reshuffling opression from one group to the other, replacing a problem with another. They are important in their own right, but shouldn't be the main battle. When they are, it means we are being manipulated by the powerful. Just sequins in our eyes.

MeasurementRealistic · 2021-06-02T16:13:17+00:00

"Left-wing" and "Right-wing" are basically meaningless to me. There's nothing about being left or right wing that precludes any possible policy or idea from being held or desired.

One is not morally good and the other is not morally bad. Jonathan Haidt did some interesting research on the moral basis of each which is pretty interesting. Here's a ted talk of it.

Uppmas · 2021-06-03T02:27:59+00:00

Being left wing means I'm a socialist. Not the Bernie Sanders socialist but the seize Bezos's assets socialist.

Also feminism isn't inherently left-wing.

ParanoidAgnostic · 2021-06-03T03:23:26+00:00

I personally think that the "left wing" in this subreddit's name is somewhat ill-fitting for what I understand the purpose of this sub to be.

There are 3 major ideological positions relevant to the discussion of men's issues.

There's traditionalism. People who take this position are basically happy with gender roles. They think that they are a good thing.

There's feminism. This word has many meanings but I'm using it to mean the currently dominant form of feminism. This is a movement which assumes and promotes the idea that women are oppressed and men are the oppressors. They oppose traditional gender norms on the ground that they harm women.

The third position doesn't really have a label and the other two mostly don't believe this one exists. These are the anti-traditionalist, anti-feminists. It is the position I, and most of the people on this sub, hold. We reject traditional gender norms because they are unnecessary restrictions and harmful to both men and women. We reject feminism because it denies the harm done to men or hand-waves it away as trivial or self-inflicted and, in many cases, uses and reinforces men's restrictive and harmful gender norms and stereotypes.

Most men's advocacy spaces have a problem. In order to advocate for men, it's is vital to challenge the narratives promoted by feminism. However, this makes some traditionalists see us as allies and they enter these spaces.

Men's advocate groups welcome them due to their shared criticism of feminism. They ignore that this criticism comes from a very different motivation. Traditionalists think feminism is wrong to attack gender roles while anti-traditionalist anti-feminists think feminism is being selective in which gender roles it attacks.

These traditionalists gain great influence over men's advocacy spaces and even when they don't, their presence is used by feminists to insist that all men's advocacy is traditionalist.

I believe (and it was the way I was introduced to this sub) that the purpose of this subreddit is to be a men's advocacy space which actively resists this phenomenon.

rydenroll · 2021-06-03T11:14:48+00:00

To me being a leftist means opposing all systems of oppression, flat out, and as a male advocate this means caring specifically about the forms of oppression men suffer from and acting to combat that oppression.

I’d really genuinely like to know; what are your grievances with feminism?

Blauwpetje · 2021-06-14T19:22:02+00:00

This article is not about men's issues, but as it is a reaction and not a post, and it comes very close to my current political stance, I'll think I link it anyway. It is IMHO also a good example of striving for justice but critically of IdPol, as I think many people here are.

https://areomagazine.com/2021/06/14/why-i-am-a-radical-moderate/

Title	What does being 'left-wing' mean for you as a male advocate?
Author	Blauwpetje
Upvotes	25
Comments	59
Date	June 2, 2021 1:47 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/nqm6lx/what_does_being_leftwing_mean_for_you_as_a_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-does-being-left-wing-mean-for-you-as-a-male.1061186 https://theredarchive.com/post/1061186

Comments