"Men should cry" The ideological bait.

pepskino · 2021-09-02T01:38:33+00:00

In my 46 years I’ve learned keep a little bit of u for u ,all that emotional pillow talk will eventually be used against u one day .. they really don’t respect weakness

RoryTate · 2021-09-02T01:46:23+00:00

Or looking at it another way, it's setting up the expectation that crying is something you have to do to gain someone's approval. Imagine walking up to a crying girl and saying: "It's okay not to cry, dear". Sounds rude and condescending, right? Well, that's because it is, and saying the opposite to a man who isn't crying is just as stupid.

The actual humane and positive approach to this would be the statement: "You can express your personal emotions in any reasonable way that you choose to do yourself, whether that is through crying or not."

The likelihood of that kind of affirmation being offered by any of these manipulative ideologues is about as close to zero as possible though.

DIES-_-IRAE · 2021-09-02T04:27:53+00:00

My ex wife was disgusted by weakness of any kind.

There's a lot of truth to what you say.

newyorkloser45 · 2021-09-02T00:16:12+00:00

They don't actually care about your emotions either, it's all virtue signaling out of their ass. Some women even break up with their bf if they cry or show any emotions at all.

Daddy_Stop · 2021-09-02T08:16:38+00:00

I think 90% of the people that say "men should cry more" would second guess their life choices if they married a man who cries as much as the average woman, or avoid them as friends/potential romantic partners all together. It's all virtue signalling bullshit.

Just my opinion.

BluedHaze · 2021-09-02T02:59:14+00:00

What you're saying makes sense. Besides, When they say that, it implies that they are worthy of those emotions. If I'm not showing you my more intimate and primal emotions; you're probably not worthy of them.

FourFsOfLife · 2021-09-02T05:03:46+00:00

Everyone talks a big game about wanting men to “open up” but men don’t go for it because they know, at minimum, in their guts that its bullshit. It’s a massive the-emperor-has-no-clothes-esque phenomenon.

Vanriel · 2021-09-02T05:47:53+00:00

Honestly I don't know if I can feel things anymore. I remember being able to feel emotions quite well as a child, but as I grew older and got through the teen years (which were extremely stressful, thank you hormones) my emotions became, I don't know, blunted? And then eventually I am unsure if I am feeling anything. I just empty inside.

No idea if there's something wrong with me or how to fix it if there is.

locks_are_paranoid · 2021-09-02T02:25:56+00:00

I've been told to "calm down" a countless number of times. One time a female doctor wasn't taking my problem seriously, and she called a nurse into the room when I started yelling at her. For context, I'd been getting nosebleeds everyday for a few weeks in a row, and I was concerned about the frequency of the nosebleeds, however she just wasn't taking me seriously and kept saying that it was from the dry air. Eventually I finally went to a good doctor and he correctly diagnosed it as being from an enlarged blood vessel which had nothing to do with the dry air. He cauterized it and I never got nosebleeds again. Bill Burr said it best.

adoctorswife · 2021-09-02T05:19:52+00:00

Feminists try to appease the growing number of men who are fed up with the side effects of feminism by telling them « it’s ok to cry the patriarchy is so tough ».

The patriarchy may not be perfect, but it sure is a lot better than the matriarchy for men. Men are getting their lives ruined over divorce, alimony, child support, false rape accusations, etc. All of this due to feminism but feminists will gaslight and manipulate men into believing that it’s the patriarchy.

Feminists won’t even touch the topic of men essentially being indentured servants to their spiteful exes because it will expose their agenda.

Mike_Hunt_is_itchy · 2021-09-02T07:34:01+00:00

The second one does open up and reveal the true issues, its 9/10 times used and thrown back into our faces at the first argument or sign the female is losing the argument/debate and we know this, and its a main reason why most men will never reveal the true issue.

batmanuwu564 · 2021-09-02T08:22:40+00:00

Men should also be angry when they get treated like shit

Dr_Frasier_Bane · 2021-09-02T03:07:09+00:00

An episode of Food Wars! made me cry a little at lunch today. I don't need societies permission to be weird an emotionally unstable, I do what I want!

Ciaran_Half-Barrel · 2021-09-02T00:17:30+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Mercy9989 · 2021-09-02T01:20:39+00:00

I always hate when people tell me not to open up emotionally, cause to me it's like they're saying hey you're not a human being fuck you, it feels that way because having emotions is such a core part of being human and it sucks for me more because I already lack the ability to really show emotion because of my autism so when I'm to the point of needing to show that emotion and then get told to stop because I'm not supposed to show emotion is like getting bodied by God himself

Jonesw16 · 2021-09-02T08:35:25+00:00

I believe this can sometimes be nothing more than a shit test, you get told to open up emotionally to a woman and then she either uses it against you as she doesn't respect or see you in the same way anymore, or she just loses attraction to you and she'll either cheat (I don't condone cheating) or just leave if you're unlucky.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2021-09-02T09:05:40+00:00

A good analysis but I'd like to make a few points about it:

First of all it supposes that men need to be given permission to feel and express normal human emotions.

In our current society and under our present gender roles (which are enforced by both sexes and women are absolutely complicit), they sort of do. At least publicly.

Second of all, such sentiment has a big limit, men are not allowed to express anger, or sorrow, or resentment, or point out the causes of his emotional distress if those sources can be traced to feminism.

I agree, but I'd broaden it to not only be feminism but also "how women treat them" generally.

Other than that, I agree with your post entirely.

Thus this stems from the idea that men cannot experience normal human emotions unless women unlock such emotional potential in men.

This is a valuable insight. The idea is that men are "incomplete humans" and can only achieve completeness with women is deeply misandric.

Both men and women are full humans from birth. They both have a complete humanity. They don't need one another to "complete themselves."

Sirhugh66 · 2021-09-02T10:10:52+00:00

My sense is that the "men should cry" mantra is more to do with shaming men, and finding an excuse for why they feel bad than it is actually helping men.

Oh, you're angry/depressed? Its your fault. You should share your feelings. All while the man is thinking "Fuck, if I wasn't being treated like a second class citizen, maybe I wouldn't feel so crap".

iainmf · 2021-09-02T04:56:51+00:00

I ask people not to use the term 'toxic masculinity' because I find it hurtful.

Most of the time they tell me to man up and stop being so sensitive.

Mode1961 · 2021-09-02T09:50:59+00:00

IMHO, it also indicates that MEN are broken women who would be fixed if they would be just like women.

Hellfang1 · 2021-09-02T13:45:57+00:00

What pisses me off is

"Men should cry.*

Followed by

"Stop crying I don't need a pussy I already got one."

Morale of the story is if you cry let no one see. I am not saying you can't cry but you need to keep an image. These females never know what they want. They want a strong man but tell you otherwise.

The same women who push beta narratives secretly want a strong man who will manhandle them.

Its okay to have feelings but find a way to deal with them out of the public eye.

AbysmalDescent · 2021-09-02T17:56:28+00:00

Most women do not want to hear what men feel or think about. At best, they will just ignore it because they just don't care. At worse, they will use it against you. Not just in the "you told me your deepest secrets and now I can use them against you whenever were in an argument or for blackmail purposes" or "you just told me your deepest desires, now I can use it against you next time I want something", but they they can certainly use it to vilify you as well.

If a guy expresses any form of grief, insecurity or stress and vents about it to a woman, she could just as easily turn around and accuse him of grooming or being manipulative, or state that he was trying to use those feelings to get garner sympathy from her. If a guy expresses any form of desire or attraction towards a woman, she could just turn around and say "it made me uncomfortable/unsafe, and feared for my life", even though there were no indications that any escalation would have occurred. If a guy expresses any form of anger or frustration, she could just as easily turn around and paint him as a violent or abusive man for it.

There are no real safe ways for men to express emotions, even expressing feelings or behaviors that women get away with every day, because women can and will use those emotions against them.

mrmensplights · 2021-09-03T05:52:30+00:00

Your daily reminder that 'Boys should cry' thing is anti science.

Men cry less than women for two reasons:

Women have much higher levels of prolactin than men which is a protein that promotes emotional crying.
Women have much lower levels of testosterone than men which is a hormone that inhibits crying.

Stop telling boys to cry. There's literally no evidence bawling your eyes out is more emotionally healthy than coping with your negative emotions by creating, tinkering, or exercising.

Boys are not defective girls.

MezzaCorux · 2021-09-02T08:29:25+00:00

I have only been ridiculed by women for expressing my emotions (mostly crying). It would not even be a problem if there wasn’t this absurd societal standard that men must be stoic to be attractive. I have never had this problem with any of my male friends or partners.

Starforce2005 · 2021-09-02T11:17:01+00:00

Finally someone address this none sense, good job

Good_Stuff11 · 2021-09-02T21:15:30+00:00

It’s just bad faith arguments thrown at men to gaslight them into thinking crying is a solution to the problems we face

63daddy · 2021-09-02T22:06:57+00:00

You make such a good point. Feminists are baiting. They are essentially making a strawman argument.

Masculinity is defined as: “qualities or attributes regarded as characteristic of men.”

Men do show sorrow, anger and other emotions. Having emotions is a part of being male and is a part of masculinity. Claiming masculinity prohibits emotions is just nonsense, but to attack being masculine, feminists must first misrepresent what masculinity means. When people bring up toxic masculinity or otherwise misrepresent what masculinity is, they should be called on it right then and there so they can’t continue to make anti-male arguments based on a false premise.

Stoicism1981 · 2021-09-02T10:36:11+00:00

Men are different .. ESFJ vs ISTP anyone? They won’t experience their emotions the same so maybe we stop saying men this women that rather take each as a unique individual

BeNice_777 · 2021-09-02T11:45:38+00:00

The issue here is that men are now treated as defective women.

They are not, they simply differ from women. And always have.

mensmod · 2021-09-02T15:36:54+00:00

In my experience, the whole "buck up, men don't cry" is the argument given to someone AFTER they have emotionally vented. It is encouragement to show a strong face to prevent discrimination by women who judge them negatively for not being strong.

My male acquaintances, friends and family have always been emotionally supportive. Female acquaintances, friends and family, other than my mother, have been more judgmental.

DubsPackage · 2021-09-02T23:21:30+00:00

How it starts : "Men should be allowed to cry"

How it ends : "No, not about that. No one owes you anything sweaty."

What they actually want is to make you weak so that they feel better about themselves, and later dunk on you.

Everything in the modern world is passive-aggressive manipulation.

In times past they would have taken you out back and kicked your ass, but they don't have the balls to do that now, so they manipulate your emotions to make you feel like a subhuman and gaslight you.

Like, "You don't like the shitty society we live in? What's wrong with you? You need therapy bro."

You don't need therapy, western society is legitimately broken, it is a dystopia run by billionaires running PsyOps 24x7 to make you believe that you are abnormal and crazy for refusing to wear a hazmat suit while going to a restaurant and pump unknown DNA-altering shit into your body.

Most NORMAL human beings hate needles, and are extremely mistrustful of government blowhards telling you to inject things into your body.

In any HEALTHY society the elites and billionaires would have been hung from a street lamp by now.

We already saw a taste of that in Afghanistan last week, but more and more American/Western intrusion is being rejected across the planet ; they failed in Vietnam, they failed in Korea, they failed in Venezuela, they failed in Afghanistan.

All across the planet American Karenism is being rejected, and the only people they can swindle now is us.

Training_Passenger79 · 2021-09-03T00:20:44+00:00

Don’t worry. This falls under that category of “advice sabotage”.

Women are told the same thing - which is why they tell it to men, and it is horrible advice for either sex.

It took me forever to learn that because I never shared my feelings with anyone, and I was constantly told that I have to - then when I opened up I got raked over the coals repeatedly and it really messed up my brain.

Later I bought this experience up and received the REAL advice - you cannot flippantly share your feelings. You can ONLY share your feelings with a select few individuals that you trust to handle them responsibly.

Also, if you’re a female, depending on who you talk to, you absolutely cannot show anger, frustration, or most negative emotions aside from sadness. It isn’t actually socially acceptable for women to demonstrate aggressive emotions, even though the modern feminist cult has made efforts to normalize the behavior. They are a very small subsection of the population and their influence is mostly inflated by the media, and not representative of real world cultural opinions to a statistically impactful degree.

Also women cannot cry in public either. Lol. Girls can cry. Women can cry to close friends or romantic partners, or usually to their mother. But they cannot open and up and cry during a physical interaction with most people they encounter.

Please don’t mistake me for a feminist here or think that I am invalidating your feelings - I’m not. I actually deeply share your frustration because I was a victim of those lies, too.

It’s just that in this instance - it’s actually more of a commonality between the sexes than I think the media has led you to believe.

Also it’s worth mentioning that other demographics, like non-whites or non cisgender individuals may have different levels of success with exposing emotions. I think it’s also somewhat location-dependent.

Regardless of all of that, the fact remains that you can only expose your emotions to trusted individuals.

TheVirginJedi · 2021-09-03T12:02:18+00:00

Again, I'd like to make it clear, I don't hate women. I hate people who say "Men should show emotions" and with the same resolution say that "aggressive nature in men is a toxic."Such people would love to pick and choose the emotion they want men to express.

pappo4ever · 2021-09-02T04:58:14+00:00

"Men should be allowed to open up emotionally"

Exactly, allowed by whom? them? As a man you should do whatever the hell you want. If you want to display feminine emotions and cry, then do it. Just don't expect any woman to be attracted to a crying man.

jollymarcus · 2021-09-02T16:45:45+00:00

Of course we should open up, but never, NEVER in front of people who will use that against us. Your problem is not opening up but the unsafe environment. Be careful with this attitude against opening up emotionally, because being vulnerable is part of being human and invulnerability is dangerously close to sociopathy. I feel you, but just be careful, that’s all.

Beautiful_Wroth-Roar · 2021-09-02T09:14:27+00:00

I would not been able to word it better.

elebrin · 2021-09-02T12:41:47+00:00

It also supposes that crying is primarily how all men deal with sadness, grief, and loss. Unfortunately for their worldview, men aren't some monolithic entity - there is diversity among us in how we express things. The same is true of women and it's recognized. Men, though, are often treated as replicable stand-ins for each other. Like we are all clones programmed by the same machine.

I suspect what they really want to do is enforce a uniform standard of acceptable emotional outlet on men. At least, that's what it seems like to me. Particularly, they want to enforce some specific standard based on what women themselves have historically been chastised for doing too much.

Maybe instead people should try to seek some historical understanding of positive male behavior as enshrined in humanity's different cultures. The art, music, ritual, ceremony, monuments, and traditions of humanity all were spawned from a man or group of men trying to express something about how they feel.

ZeroAssassin72 · 2021-09-02T13:11:24+00:00

Bingo

LoFiGai · 2021-09-02T20:12:35+00:00

"Men should be allowed to open up emotionally" is the idea that women gave men the ability to experience positive emotions, this is the ideological bait.

Elaborate please? Not understanding the correlation between men should be allowed to open up and women being the "key" to open them up.

fakevahi · 2021-09-02T21:12:05+00:00

I always thought the "Men aren't allowed to have emotions/Men should be able to cry/etc." was bullshit.

If you wan't to be taken seriously as an adult (man or woman), don't start crying in public or throwing tantrums.

Stop mistaking "Stop crying and act like a man/ be a man" as "ToXiC mAsCuLiNiTy" : it means "Stop acting like a child and control your emotions. Don't let your emotions control you".

You're sad ? Cool, no one cares, process that in private.

masterdarthrevan · 2021-09-02T16:17:35+00:00

I have emotions and sometimes I express them. Other times I don't and often I hide some of them. Other times I'm just trying to get through the day and if you had just left me alone I would have been fine. But then you came in here pushing me to open up when there was nothing there, which the made me angry and then you ask why I'm such an angry person. Fuck off Karen

AgainstWhitePeople2 · 2021-09-05T03:32:55+00:00

There is a lot of anti-narrative chud doctrine in this subreddit indeed...

SANGUlNAIRE · 2021-09-02T02:40:13+00:00

I see this subreddit is the new replacement after the banning of the incel subreddit.

TheRiverOfDyx · 2021-09-02T22:46:14+00:00

Men gotta unlock the potential in themselves. You can help foster this by hanging around women, not to be sexual, but to just talk about softer topics.

Men and women are two sides of the same coin. Women are typically emotional ones, and can be more ‘manly’ and get shit done. I see it all the time around my town, there’s some hard women around. But they don’t live in it. The ones that intimidate me are the ones who are ‘too manly’. They’re too similar to a man, they just have a woman’s body, and the emotions inside. That’s unnerving to me. Same as an overly sensitive guy is to a woman. We can experience the whole coin, but we each have our side. A sensitive man isn’t a man who is always feeling his emotions and exuding the Tail side of the coin all the time, that’s a little bitch boy. A cry baby.

And a woman exuding overly ‘male’ qualities like toughness and being jacked as fuck while working on oil patch sites is generally ‘a bitch’ because she’s not the femme expectation.

Both sides have expectations, both sides of the coin know what the other side should be. And they should let each other express the other side sometimes. Not all the times. Sometimes.

Integrating the Animus and the Anima inside you helps with this. Improper attachment to ones mother, for instance, can build an over reliance on the Anima, the female side. The overly-sensitive guy is born from this. He doesn’t get in touch with being ‘a man’ because it’s ‘unfair’.

But we all have our roles, and we can play outside them for a bit before playing outside becomes the role, which changes your role, and goes against what you want the result to be.

Men gotta be men, women gotta be women, but let’s meet in the middle, on the edge of the coin sometimes, we’ll be closer that way

Title	"Men should cry" The ideological bait.
Author	Ciaran_Half-Barrel
Upvotes	462
Comments	124
Date	September 1, 2021 11:47 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pg62lp/men_should_cry_the_ideological_bait/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-should-cry-the-ideological-bait.1066728 https://theredarchive.com/post/1066728

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