Helping you understand positive masculinity and toxic masculinity

bottleblank · 2023-02-17T13:37:22+00:00

You could've used fewer words and just said

Be an emotionless machine for society to use and expect no reward, appreciation, respect, or acknowledgement, completely disregarding your own health, psychological needs, and humanity.

PactScharp · 2023-02-17T14:18:23+00:00

And who the fuck are you to place limits on "healthy" masculinity?

Who the fuck are you to define what constitutes "toxic" masculinity?

Most of what you said has nothing to do with "masculinity". Things like "encouraging others" has zero basis in "masculinity". Women are also statistically INSANELY more sexually entitled than men, it's not even a close contest. In fact, males showcase basically no sexual entitlement at all (across ALL species). In terms of sexual aggression, that's not a bad thing either & it's something basically all women still expect & demand from men.

Funny how YOU get to decide when "others" get it wrong about toxic masculinity. Sounds like rampant narcissism to me.

No-Ad-5825 · 2023-02-17T13:15:48+00:00

maybe not pathologise masculinity and associate negative personality traits to men when both men and women show these traits. Also you dont care that about men expressing or not expressing their emotions because it will be of personal benefit of them you only care because it has an off chance of it being destructive.

fuckthi__hit · 2023-02-17T13:16:45+00:00

Society loves to manipulate men so that it can use time, money, and energy of men for things that does not benefit the man himself.

Your list of positive traits simply prove that either you are doing the same or have fallen to that trap.

Here is a better definition of positive musculanity.

Use your time, money, energy, and strength on things that improve your own life and bring you fulfilment and joy. As long as you do this while not going out of your own way to harm others. You are good. You have absolutely no obligation to sacrifice for others.

Dismal-Cabinet5321 · 2023-02-17T14:07:23+00:00

Kindly fuck off, thank you

Brandwein · 2023-02-17T22:27:21+00:00

So when i use violence to defend someone i like, is that positive or toxic? I solve a social problem and help someone.

Sininenn · 2023-02-17T13:20:37+00:00

Did you just try to "mansplain" what toxic masculinity is to a bunch of men's rights activists?

Jeffwins · 2023-02-17T22:03:19+00:00

This is an incredibly low quality post.

solar-garlic1776 · 2023-02-17T14:01:38+00:00

Enough with the fucking buzz word bullshit. We all know right from wrong and how not to be an asshole.

I don't need your personal list of what is and isn't "good masculinity"

Your little list here is toxic masculinity. Why do feel entitled to tell any of us how to conduct our lives.

SweatyAdvance · 2023-02-17T13:15:55+00:00

Using physical violence to solve social problems

I didn't realize only men used voilence.

Always expecting a reward for every human interaction

Um, what? How does this have anything to do with masculinity? This is more of an immaturity thing.

Being sexually aggressive and entitled

Again, nothing to do with masculinity. I didn't know only men were entitled. News to me.

Not expressing emotions and eventually being destructive because of it.

Again, this has nothing to do with masculinity. Men and women alike have issues expressing emotions in a healthy maner.

keeeeeeeeeeeeefe · 2023-02-17T13:37:03+00:00

about emotions,

feeling emotions is fine you shouldnt ust act because of them

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-02-17T22:44:53+00:00

Positive masculinity

Being useful to women/society
Doing what women want

Toxic masculinity

Not being useful to women/society
Not doing what women want

FTFY

If someone claims that other people think that it's "toxic masculinity" to help kittens out of a collapsed building, then they're simply lying to you.

People say this as a joke/rebuttal...

Ferbuggity · 2023-02-17T14:01:46+00:00

Your "positive masculinity" list sounds like a recipe for some kind of weird altruistic hippy hero.

Why on earth is a 'positive' list even needed? Surely, simply saying "masculinity" is enough to describe the traits of normal men doing normal things.

Toxic masculinity is such a load of shit, anyway--- as a term it's kind of like Vegemite... okay its pretty nasty but it does work as intended in a very, very limited set of contexts .. ie, spread very thinly... on buttered toast. But you just go ahead and paste huge globs of it on everything, and in contexts where it doesn't belong, and you'll find the whole mess very quickly gets untenable and unsustainable and leaves a nasty taste in your mouth.

Mandarni · 2023-02-17T17:55:42+00:00

Sorry but no. I honestly don't care about what other people consider toxic masculinity or not.

Also, the list is flat out wrong. Defining masculinity is rather difficult, but at its core it is about stoicism, duty, hard work, etc. In short, don't take shit, live your life in a way that warrants respect and likewise give respect to other people who earn it.

A physically weak man can be masculine, if he has a strong spine. And being a door mat, as you seem to imply is "positive masculinity", is not masculine at all.

AloysiusC · 2023-02-17T18:42:26+00:00

None of the things listed are inherently masculine. Neither the positive nor the toxic ones.

This also contradicts the established definition of toxic masculinity which describes expectations society places on men.

I suggest you inform yourself before taking it upon yourself to educate others.

Bernard245 · 2023-02-17T19:36:04+00:00

This post tells me that you have no inherent understanding of what masculinity is beyond what someone has told you, who they themselves has no understanding of what masculinity is.

angelojch · 2023-02-17T21:31:18+00:00

Helping you understand...

The first few words suggest that men don't understand anything and need to be told what to think. Thanks but we are not interested. We already know what these words mean.

Perfectly-Not-Wrong · 2023-02-17T16:28:07+00:00

In simple words, take more responsibility for every thing. Don't expect anything in return. Make your first move always as usual and take responsibilities for the outcome. This is what i can decode.

Sounds more like a feminists words.

I am sure dogs are good at doing all the above. Men are human just like Women.

Hardc0reWillNeverDie · 2023-02-17T15:15:36+00:00

On behalf of my penised brethren, can I just say thank you for your help with this!

I'd been struggling to grapple with this whole 'being a man' thing, but turns out what we needed was a good condescending-to by someone (I'm assuming) writing from a non-male perspective.

It's just great to get some outside advice from someone who hasn't an inkling about our lived experience.

Please do loop us all in on any other insights.

Maybe we can set something up where men can pop into TwoX and give our advice on how to be 'positively feminine'. I'm sure that will prompt an productive and civil exchange of ideas. Maybe even a bit of disagreement, who knows.

bilgediver · 2023-02-17T14:44:24+00:00

And yet the APA has drawn up guidelines indicating ANYTHING resembling masculinity is toxic. Even behaviors considered normal by boy/men standards.

ArmchairDesease · 2023-02-17T17:32:05+00:00

This is so dumb.

Why are we associating any of these positive behaviors with masculinity at all?

Take for example: Using your physical strength to help someone...

Shouldn't we call it "positive traits of strong people"? Shouldn't physically strong and competent women be held to the same expectation? Shouldn't we release weak/untrained men from the pressure to throw themselves into fire just to show others they are heroes?

Why link this, or any behavioral expectation, positive or negative, to sex?

It's just a primitive un-nuanced rule of thumb based on statistical incidence. We should be better than that.

manicmonkeys · 2023-02-17T20:44:40+00:00

This isn't helping anyone "understand" anything. This is just giving your opinion on what you think those terms mean, which is very much at odds with what lots of other people think those terms mean.

veedub447 · 2023-02-17T20:02:57+00:00

"Using physical violence to solve social problems" Break up a fight, stop a crime, , restrain a thief, problem solved, what's the issue?

"Always expecting a reward for every human interaction?' this doesn't even exist , even among the most vile criminals .

"Being sexually aggressive and entitled," that's not toxic masculinity, its called being an asshole.

"Not expressing emotions" is also not toxic, restraining one's emotions is a virtue of masculinity, women should learn to be better at this .

There's just masculinity. there is no such thing as " toxic masculinity." This is just a feminist invented term made to shame men.

DrugDoer9000 · 2023-02-17T17:52:52+00:00

why help someone? Think carefully before allocating your own limited resources
only make human interactions if there’s a strong likelihood of reward
understand your own emotions, but control yourself and never reveal them unintentionally
you can’t fight every battle, pick very wisely the ones you do

^ this is how humans actually live. In other words, don’t be a fucking simp

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2023-02-20T05:31:04+00:00

Hey, how about instead of lecturing others about how to be male why not just drop your own habit of making prejudiced assumptions based on gender stereotypes? There is no "healthy" OR "toxic" way to be masculine and basically every man on the planet except over-educated dolts gets that and just wants to be themselves without people reading into it.

Society needs to treat men better, not tell men to do better.

Dapper_Beautiful_559 · 2023-02-17T18:09:45+00:00

HA. All of the “toxic masculinity” traits are done by women just as much. In my experience, more women have used physical violence towards me to solve social problems. If you’re not a troll do yourself a favor and stop filling your brain with this nonsense. What an absolute waste of your time and life.

Professional-You2968 · 2023-02-17T16:28:37+00:00

There is no toxic masculinity, just toxic people. Mods please remove this.

TodayIThrowAway16 · 2023-02-17T17:11:08+00:00

Interesting to me that we allow a feminist to post here while if we did the same in a feminist subs, we'd be banned, blocked, etc.

TodayIThrowAway16 · 2023-02-17T17:02:13+00:00

This post doesn't help me understand anything other than bias.

Ozhubdownunder · 2023-02-17T20:39:49+00:00

You’ve described good and bad behaviour. Why try to align them solely with men? If you want to be consistent, go to the feminism subs and list healthy and toxic femininity behaviours.

Character_Pirate_618 · 2023-02-17T20:45:53+00:00

Chivalry, courtly love and gynocentrism are toxic society. They only result in male disposability.

Character_Pirate_618 · 2023-02-17T20:46:22+00:00

Male-Only Draft = Toxic Society = Men Are Human Shields and Human Sacrifices

Character_Pirate_618 · 2023-02-17T20:47:03+00:00

The State Husbandry

The State Sugar Daddy

The State Pimp

The State Violence Proxy

Toxic Society

TodayIThrowAway16 · 2023-02-17T23:39:03+00:00

Remember, when you read the words "toxic masculinity", that's a phrase that feminists use to degrade men and confuse/shame younger men. Funny how we don't see "toxic femininity" written anywhere.

AgeOfReasonEnds31120 · 2023-02-18T00:20:30+00:00

Did you seriously just post this in the Men's Rights sub!?

Longjumping_Cry4002 · 2023-02-18T01:13:14+00:00

Toxic masculinity doesn’t exist. Just some feminist bullshit saying. It’s just being a toxic human.

ANUS_CONE · 2023-02-18T03:55:43+00:00

None of those toxic traits are inherently masculine

Siganid · 2023-02-17T21:03:37+00:00

The term "toxic masculinity" is easy to understand:

It's a sexist slur against men used to demean them.

Proof:

The term "toxic femininity" isn't used by the people using the inverse.

shit-zen-giggles · 2023-02-18T02:50:44+00:00

never mind the slew of academic papers who blame men (aka toxic masculinity) for everything from climate change (petro masculinity) to enjoying each others company and some hot sauce (salsa masculinity).

What I find most currious is that your so called 'positive masculinity' would never allow the men who implement it to have wants or needs of their own. That would be toxic. It would indeed turn any man who implements it into a voluntary slave who exclusively works for the benefit of others. How 'positive'.

Trust me, I've studied the feminist literature. 'toxic masculinity' is the equivalent to christianity's 'original sin'.

Content-Natural-9899 · 2023-02-18T10:22:36+00:00

Please stop being toxicly feminine...

iainmf · 2023-02-18T11:00:45+00:00

Please stop using these terms. I find it hurtful.

You should be aware that a lot of people here don't like the term 'toxic masculinity', so please stop using it. If you already knew this, then that's doubly hurtful because you used it knowing people don't like it.

[deleted] · 2023-02-17T20:21:38+00:00

OP has been on Reddit for 3 years and has less than 2,000 karma.

I think that sums it all up quite nicely actually.

Title	Helping you understand positive masculinity and toxic masculinity
Author	Cranium_Internum
Upvotes	0
Comments	283
Date	February 17, 2023 10:12 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/114g4f6/helping_you_understand_positive_masculinity_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/helping-you-understand-positive-masculinity-and.1152357 https://theredarchive.com/post/1152357

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Positive masculinity

Toxic masculinity