Why exactly does everyone hate feminism?

HeForeverBleeds · 2018-01-17T05:13:29+00:00

Feminism is about female advocacy, not egalitarianism. At best, it ignores males' issues; often it downplays males' issues by claiming that 'male privilege' means men don't have any serious issues that they can't just fix and attacks the people who do try to address them (e.g. accuses people who speak out against sexual violence against males as "derailing" from the conversation of sexual violence); and too often it attacks males in general (e.g. males are responsible for every social ill)

Some examples of this kind of thing here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here

Juan_Golt · 2018-01-17T05:23:27+00:00

Certainly most women do not hate men. Neither do most men hate women. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.
The primary issue would be child custody and parenting rights. Maternity leave is a minor issue. Who buys the drinks is a non-issue.
We can agree that just because one thing is more bad, doesn't invalidate everything that is less bad. Yet somehow this rule never seems to apply to male DV victims.
&5 To you feminism just means equality. So you see anyone who is anti-feminist as anti-equality. Open your mind to the idea that there may be more than one perspective on gender equality. We support gender equality as well. No one here wants women 'back in the kitchen' or anything. We don't support traditional gender roles. We just view things like the duluth model, the tender years doctrine, VAWA, opposition to shared parenting, etc... As steps away from equality rather than towards equality. If you don't believe these policies are emblematic of feminism, there are large groups of politically active feminists who push these forward, and almost zero feminist voices in opposition.

Think of the small town evangelical christian who assumes that atheists must think it's ok to lie, steal, murder because they don't believe in the ten commandments.

Consider the people who were called unpatriotic for opposing the Iraq war. Were they unpatriotic? Or did they simply care about the country in a way that didn't involve foreign invasions.

It's similar here. We want equality between men and women. We merely disagree on the causes, and potential solutions. There are feminists who support MRA views. CH Sommers, Warren Farrell, and Erin Pizzey for example.

More in depth here:

https://becauseits2015.wordpress.com/2016/08/06/a-non-feminist-faq/

iainmf · 2018-01-17T06:05:44+00:00

Feminism is bad because:

A) Influential feminists oppose men's human rights.

B) Feminist theory is used to justify opposing men's rights.

To address your points:

1) Hate groups are groups that oppose peoples rights and freedoms. The fact that most feminists don't feel hate for men, doesn't mean they don't support measures that disadvantage men.

2) Female privilege comes from laws and policies that benefit women at the expense of men. Women have more legal rights than men. Sentencing guidelines give women shorter sentences for equivalent crimes

3) You don't need feminism to address women's issues. Feminism needs to demonstrate it benefits women more than it harms them.

4) Addressed above.

5) You can support women's rights without being a feminist, just like many of us here do. You choose to be a feminist and associate yourself with a sexist movement that opposes human rights for everyone.

fengpi · 2018-01-17T04:22:33+00:00

Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism.

According to the flashy advertisements, yes. But when the box arrives in the mail and you open it... not so much. After a while, you start wanting to ignore the annoying advertisements for some inexplicable reason.

In UK/US for example, women are far far better off than in other countries, however just because it is worse off elsewhere it does not mean it isn’t needed at home.

I think the obvious counterpoint is encapsulated by the term "first world problems."

I just adore it when a fresh-faced 22 year old naïf tries to hand his wise life-lessons down to someone who is 20 years older and who, therefore, can only be little more than a backwards know-nothing caveman. If only I knew what the real feminism is! To know it is to love it!

All that "feminism" stuff I'd seen, read, heard and experienced over the past 25 or so years, with its illiberal, phony-baloney, tendentious hypocritical cult-like poses and childish one-sided pretzel-logic rants? It wasn't the real thing. Thank God that this precocious young turk has brought me the secret magic version which has been hiding away for all this time. Hallelujah.

aussietoads · 2018-01-17T06:44:59+00:00

1:) Don't conflate the word women with the word feminism.

2:) You mean Parental Leave. FTFY. Buy you drinks?, who cares. People can spend their money how they like.

3:) Depends on what you mean by worse off.

4:) The women's movement WAS a strand of egalitarianism. Feminism - the dogma, has never been egalitarian.

5:) Being an older egalitarian, I'm ashamed to think I was once a feminist. But that's the rightful folly of youth, to make mistakes then learn from them.

EricAllonde · 2018-01-17T06:48:26+00:00

1) Women don’t hate men

Women don't, but feminists certainly do.

(1% may)

In the UK about 7% of the population are feminists, so your number is a bit off.

2) Having a longer maternity leave / people buy you drinks does not cause to women be more privileged than men.

Lazy strawman.

3) In UK/US for example, women are far far better off than in other countries, however just because it is worse off elsewhere it does not mean it isn’t needed at home.

No, the fact that feminism was originally created to gain equal rights and equal opportunities for women, and it has exceeded those goals - women now have all the rights that men do and a number of additional rights as well, and women have better than equal opportunities thanks to affirmative action - is the reason why it's not needed today in western countries.

4) Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism.

It is not. Sure, that's the moral claim that feminism makes about itself, but actions speak louder than words. Feminism is actually about advancing women's interests, about gaining additional rights, benefits and privileges for women - at all times, in all circumstances and without limitation.

Show me a single case where feminism acted to advance the interests of men because, in that particular area, men are discriminated against and/or disadvantaged. You can't. The best you can come up with are feminist claims of "trickle-down equality", cases where feminism acted in women's interests and claimed, "This will help men too".

Show me a single case where feminism achieved its goal of equality and then stopped, rather than continuing to push forwards. You can't, there is simply no mechanism built into feminism to make it stop when equality is achieved.

For example: there is a huge gender gender gap in criminal justice:

https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx

After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted." This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.

And this is an eye-opener:

http://mhrm.uk/wiki/analysis-of-gender-bias-in-sentencing-data/

If men were treated as leniently as women are by the criminal justice system, there would be about 84% fewer men in jail today.

Are feminists working towards equality in this area? Absolutely not! The opposite, in fact. Feminists generally avoid talking about the criminal justice gender gap, except when they decide to weigh in and argument that jail for women should be abolished entirely.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/01/why-we-should-close-womens-prisons-and-treat-their-crimes-more-fairly

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12017131/Why-womens-prisons-do-more-harm-than-good.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/11/06/we-should-stop-putting-women-in-jail-for-anything/?utm_term=.c13d46a83c23

https://theconversation.com/the-case-for-closing-down-womens-prisons-33000

In other words, feminists want to increase the gender sentencing gap enormously. They essentially want a gender sentencing gap that is infinite.

Does that sound like equality to you?

We can point to the same thing in education: even though women now make up 60% of the students attending university, feminists still demand that women-only scholarships be maintained or increased, and they are bitterly opposed to the extremely rare men-only scholarships, even though none of them are funded with government money, only private donations.

More anti-equality activism from feminists.

Feminists are working actively to block reform of alimony and child custody laws to remove biases against men, for example by creating a legal presumption that father are equally entitled to see their children after a divorce as mothers.

Yet another example of feminists demanding ever-more benefits and privileges for women, while actively opposing equal rights for men. It is truly a toxic ideology, one that's enormously harmful to millions of men and damaging to the fabric of society.

5) You shouldn’t be ashamed to be a feminist.

Yes you should. Feminism is bad and you should feel bad for supporting it.

Ask yourself why you're so actively opposing equality for men? Is it internalised misandry? Or have you simply been mindlessly caught up in the gynocentrism that thoroughly permeates our society, and as a result you've never thought deeply about true gender equality?

Give this a read when you're ready to wake up:

http://www.realsexism.com/

Fortspucking · 2018-01-17T06:49:43+00:00

The videos and writings of Karen Straughan are quite eloquent and thorough in discussing why people are anti-feminist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut2VVAW0MwM

ThePigmanAgain · 2018-01-17T10:47:03+00:00

I’m a 22 year old dude who is very curious as to why everyone hates feminism? A few things to point out: 1) Women don’t hate men (1% may)

With this you have shown that you can't even tell the difference between women and feminists. If you think i wasted any time reading the rest of your post you are crazy.

trivialretort · 2018-01-17T04:29:46+00:00

[permanently deleted]

goodbeertimes · 2018-01-17T08:48:26+00:00

If you aren't already, relocate to CA and get a job. And the next thing to be on your list is to get married.

See you in 5!

Blix_the_Goblin · 2018-01-17T04:51:47+00:00

If feminism was actually about equality, it wouldn't be called feminism. The term itself obviously shows that those who subscribe to it care about women first and men second, if at all

theothermod · 2018-01-17T05:13:46+00:00

Here are some of the reasons.

kartu3 · 2018-01-17T07:42:45+00:00

1) Women don’t hate men (1% may)

People who either didn't find partner or found partner they are not happy with (not satisfied either sexually or financially or otherwise) tend to HATE people of the corresponding gender. We find men like that in "incels" (before it was banned) and we find women like that... you tell me, which movement they join.

4) Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism. Yes there is a very very small handful women who may believe women are superior and misunderstand feminism, but it is a minority.

Out of all feminists, there is only a handful that is for egalitarianism. You can find them all listed here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_feminism

BlockNotDo · 2018-01-17T14:20:49+00:00

Feminists view of gender equality is to equalize things where men have an advantage while leaving imbalance in things where women have an advantage. For example, I've never heard a feminist advocate for providing men and women with equal post-conception reproductive rights. In fact, they openly and loudly advocate that the current imbalance be maintained and expanded.

perplexedm · 2018-01-17T05:29:10+00:00

5) You shouldn’t be ashamed to be a feminist.

You should be, actually you already are; if not yet, start getting it.

Why? Because, if feminutism is so good, you wouldn't need this much explanations to make.

Now, go to r/feminism and try to justify why world needs human rights for men and see the result.

LIBERTARIAN_HUMAN · 2018-01-17T03:55:52+00:00

Go to google and type with quotation marks: "smash gynocentrism". You will get my blog. You can find all your answers there; I published 226 lessons about Men's Rights & Feminism. All your answers are located there.

2018-01-17T05:11:22+00:00

[permanently deleted]

whatsthereason567 · 2018-01-17T05:34:11+00:00

"1) Women don’t hate men " So let's presume all the sexist, objectifying, harassment due to gender I've experienced 50 times +, and all the times I've seen females do so to other males including their boyfriends wasn't really 'sexist' somehow.

Still 20% of females are feminists (spread lies about sexual assault and rape for 5 decades) 50% have a back up partner, 15-20% cheaters, how many females display lesser sexism like treating men different from women, or have said disgusting comments throughout their life? Mentally ill females are what? Also 15%? In the end it's more like 99%. Go to any female sub on the internet to see females celebrating man hatred.

Calbroo · 2018-01-17T12:45:28+00:00

Things I’ve got from the responses -

Largest issue that MRA believe in is for shared custody. I totally agree.

I didn’t expect to randomly change everyone’s mind about feminism, but it’s interesting that the main reason people seem to be against it is because of courts / Gove favouring women in a few cases. I understand that is why there is a need for these things to change to be equal for men too.

I agreed with these ideas before so it’s hard for me to change my mind about them. With any luck maybe even an inkling of some opinions about feminism have changed a little, even if it’s as much as ‘ok only a minority of women are abusing the movement’, as many of you have said already.

I’ve also learnt that older people who said anything to do with it being because of my age are just as wise as the 16 year olds blaming their grannies for Brexit.

Leinadro · 2018-01-17T13:25:17+00:00

1) Women don’t hate men (1% may)

Its not just a matter of numbers. Ever noticed that while the vast majority of men don't hate women there is still no shortage of claims that "men hate women" "men don't respect women" "men are inconsiderate of women's experiences/perspectives"? Also another thing to consider is that while a minority of women don't hate men expressing hate for men isn't exactly looked down upon like openly expressing hate for other groups. And don't you think 1% is a pretty generous low ball?

2) Having a longer maternity leave / people buy you drinks does not cause to women be more privileged than men.

Who said that? Seriously I've never heard this line of logic before. I think someone is feeding you bad intel. How about things like being sentenced to less time for the same crime? How about being able to abuse your husband and then watching as HE gets arrested when he calls the cops for help? How about being able to just claim from nowhere that a guy raped you and destroy his life without even having your identity made public? How about already having the upper hand in nearly every level of education but still continue to get the primary focus in education by just shrugging off all differences as "girls are just better than boys"?

And additionally I'll say that the biggest problem with talking about privilege is that the very concept has been tainted and twisted to the point where privilege is basically defined as "something men have that women don't" so that female privilege simply cannot exist. How convenient.

3) In UK/US for example, women are far far better off than in other countries, however just because it is worse off elsewhere it does not mean it isn’t needed at home.

I agree. Yes there are places where feminism can still do some good.

4) Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism. Yes there is a very very small handful women who may believe women are superior and misunderstand feminism, but it is a minority. You hear about it more in the media because it is more interesting to hate things, for example any muppets who pay attention or care about what Katie Hopkins or other similar people say. They’re famous for a reason, it’s interesting to get angry.

How vocal is that minority? When that minority spits their hate where are the non hateful feminists to call it out? When that vocal minority is supporting hate against men where is that majority to speak up and at minimum distance themselves from that hate? this is a matter of consistency or lack thereof. Feminists love to go on and on about how men and MRAs need to police their own but time and time again feminists refuse to police their own. They are quite literally refusing to practice what they preach at others to do. Or better yet let me ask this. Would you extend what you say about Katie Hopkins to Paul Elam? Because for the longest time he was basically the only MRA most feminists could even name for the same reasons you mention above.

But we're supposed to let them impose a standard on us that they refuse hold themselves to?

5) You shouldn’t be ashamed to be a feminist. I wouldn’t look for reasons to not be a feminist any more than I would look for reasons to not be a racist. You don’t have to personally attempt to bring about radical social reform. I’m not a campaigner against racism, I’m just not a racist.

Who has to look for reasons to not be a feminists when there are plenty to choose from? The difference between a racist and a feminist is that being a racist is pretty much understood to be a bad thing while being a feminist still largely has positive spin on it. If I were to say "I'm not a racist" in a public forum most people wouldn't care. On the other hand if I say, "I'm not a feminist" in a public forum there is a good chance I will get people telling me that I am against equality (and might even call me a racist). Feminists try to setup this dichotomy where either you're a feminist or a bigot. And its blowing up in their faces because people are burned out and sick and tired of their bullshit. If feminists have a problem with people not identifying as feminist that is on them, not us.

pobretano · 2018-01-17T13:25:18+00:00

2) It is lazy and silly. Why do you think women are, in some sense, less privileged than men?

You said that having a longer maternity leave doesn't prove women are more privileged. BUT it is very obvious more maternity leave is a privilege.

What is your point? That men and women have different sets of privileges and then it isn't sane to compare, or that men have way more privileges and maternity leave is just a rare exception?

_Radaghast_ · 2018-01-17T14:45:42+00:00

"1) Women don’t hate men (1% may)"

Women ≠ feminists. and yes, most feminists i've met irl and online are misandrist to some degree.

"2) Having a longer maternity leave / people buy you drinks does not cause to women be more privileged than men."

Having longer paid leave is a privilege, what people do with their own money/drink buying does not mater to me at all.

"3) In UK/US for example, women are far far better off than in other countries, however just because it is worse off elsewhere it does not mean it isn’t needed at home."

I have never said women rights aren't important or that women don't face issues in both the first and third world. what does often happen in the first world is feminists using the third world as a prop to strengen their whining over non issues like "sexist airconditioning" and flat out false representation of data like the wage gap myth. all while dismissing men's issues like MGM, suicide, homelessness, workplace death, parental rights, choices in birth control and so forth because according to feminists "men already have always had all the rights" and " it's really a side effect of it really being a women's issue and the non existing patriarchy/toxic masculinity is to blame, so it's your own fault and women are the real victims™"

"4) Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism."

It simply is not, the history of feminist academia and activism and art show that rather blatantly.

"5) You shouldn’t be ashamed to be a feminist."

Not if you're like christina hoff sommers. If you are like big red then you should be cringing at yourself.

splodgenessabounds · 2018-01-17T14:53:54+00:00

1) Women don’t hate men (1% may)

Conflating Feminism and all women - fail. <10% of women in the UK (and similar proportions elsewhere) identify as Feminists.

2) Having a longer maternity leave / people buy you drinks does not cause to women be more privileged than men.

Question: is it men who pay for the majority of maternity leave schemes, or women? In formulating your answer, bear biology in mind.

3) In UK/US for example, women are far far better off than in other countries, however just because it is worse off elsewhere it does not mean it isn’t needed at home.

That being so, please explain why it is that Feminists in the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, Germany, Scandinavia ... spend so much time and effort on campaigning to get more women into CEO/ FTSE 100 board positions, and correspondingly less on the plight of women in 'third world' countries?

4) Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism. Yes there is a very very small handful women who may believe women are superior and misunderstand feminism, but it is a minority.

Egalitarianism is egalitarianism - there are no "strands". Feminism's attempts to hijack the term does not make it egalitarian any more than "Free Trade coffee" makes McDonalds an ecologically sustainable enterprise.

5) You shouldn’t be ashamed to be a feminist.

No, but Feminists should be ashamed of their movement's inability to reconcile its rhetoric with its actions, and its wholesale reluctance to brook rational arguments.

In proclaiming oneself a Feminist, you either support Feminism's principles and actions or you reveal yourself as a dilettante. Your choice.

ionstorm20 · 2018-01-17T15:54:24+00:00

Edit Sorry about the length of this response. I didn't realize it was this long as I was typing.

I will assume you come here under good faith in the hopes that someone will honestly answer your question, so here's my 2 Reddit copper.

Women don’t hate men (1% may)

And I generally think the people here don't hate women. 1% may. (Actually I heard once that generally you can expect 5% of a population to dislike something just because, so maybe it's closer to 5%. I dunno though)

Having a longer maternity leave / people buy you drinks does not cause to women be more privileged than men.

Those are flimsy examples for why anyone would consider anyone privileged. And I'm not saying that there are areas where men have more privileges, but what about areas like reproductive rights? Areas like Education? Suicides, Homelessness, court related rights? We can see multiple areas where the women have a clear cut advantage. But those areas are neglected or overlooked. Should women be fighting for higher pay? Absolutely. Should they be trying to remove as many rapists from the street as possible? Absolutely. In fact everyone should. But when I see pushes that further make things unequal under the guise of equality, I tend to raise an eyebrow.

In UK/US for example, women are far far better off than in other countries, however just because it is worse off elsewhere it does not mean it isn’t needed at home.

Alright, I'll bite. If we need them here to continue to push towards equality, in what areas are women unequal? I'm not telling you that you can't be a feminist, I'm just saying that you've done your job. Kinda like the AI paperclip problem. If you think you haven't completed your goal, please show me studies that show where women have a disadvantage that needs to be corrected? If your studies hold up, and the ones I find don't...I'll be happy to help further your cause. Until then, I only see a gross push to try and further inequalities. I know there are a few areas that you might see need for improvement, but they seem to be mostly creature comforts at this point. And not ones that men hold exclusivity to.

Feminism is essentially a strand of egalitarianism.

Ok, you want women to be equal to men when they aren't. Cool. The problem is that when men have decidedly less rights then women, feminism basically says, "Well...not our problem. We did this thing for women, you should organize on your own and fix it." That's not equality. Feminism is as much egalitarian in that standpoint as North Korea is democratic. They consider themselves to be democratic, but the rest of the world doesn't.

Yes there is a very very small handful women who may believe women are superior and misunderstand feminism, but it is a minority.

That might be true, but they also have quite a loud voice. The Westboro Baptist church is not all of christianity, but they have such a loud voice people pay attention to them and use them as the standard go-to. Look at the terrorists in the Middle East. They are not all Muslims, but how many people equate being a Muslim to being a terrorist. Tumblr Feminists (as much as feminism might not want them to) speak for feminism frequently.

You hear about it more in the media because it is more interesting to hate things, for example any muppets who pay attention or care about what Katie Hopkins or other similar people say. They’re famous for a reason, it’s interesting to get angry.

I actually have no idea whom Katie Hopkins is. I'll guess from the fact that you said muppets and are not referring to puppets, that you're English. So you might have to come up with an equivalent american celebrity to get this point across to me (and yes, I can look her up, but many places have many different examples of what she is, so I will likely miss the point you're trying to make).

You shouldn’t be ashamed to be a feminist.

Let's suppose I said that you were more akin to a MRA than a Feminist. I'm sure you're thinking right now of all the terrible examples of MRAs that you've been told about and don't want to be associated with them. Even though I can say there are good examples of MRAs, you're likely to associate MRA with the bad things. That's because if I say I'm a feminist, then by association, people equate me to every tenant of the ideology. By saying I'm a feminist, I'm saying I agree with the likes of people like Julie Bidel, Big red, Sarkeezian, and quite a few others. People whom also say things like: kill all men; The only way for the world to survive is to reduce the male population to 10% of what it currently is, solely for breeding purposes...etc. I would be ashamed to call myself someone who agrees with a person whom advocates of Genocide just because it fits her ideals better.

I wouldn’t look for reasons to not be a feminist any more than I would look for reasons to not be a racist. You don’t have to personally attempt to bring about radical social reform. I’m not a campaigner against racism, I’m just not a racist.

I don't have to look any further than the dictionary definition of feminism to already take issue with being a feminist. If I should have stopped reading before that, then I have an issue with the fact that I'm asked to blindly accept what feminism is.

Even in your racism example, the person should absolutely look up and determine what they want to be. If they read what racism is, and then continue to be a racist...that's on them. If they decide not to be, then that's also on them. Just blindly following without being critical is the key to misunderstanding. After all...If you are so committed to an ideal, that you cannot see the value in questioning that ideal to defend yourself or others, that's not being an idealist. That's being obedient.

You don’t have to personally attempt to bring about radical social reform. I’m not a campaigner against racism, I’m just not a racist.

If you don't try to do something to make the world better for your fellow human, what's the point? Edmund Burke once wrote a valid quote, and I feel that your complacency is summed up by it quite nicely. "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing"

Hope this helps. If not, feel free to type your response. I'll be happy to have a discourse with you.

cankle_h8r · 2018-01-17T16:07:22+00:00

/u/Calbroo is an obvious feminist troll. I suggest everyone block this user and/or never participate in it's drivel.

eightgaydiamonds · 2018-01-22T13:54:09+00:00

Because its part of Marxism and Marxism is the darkest of all evils

lighternite · 2018-01-17T05:38:29+00:00

Seriously why r we allowing people like this to post stuff here? If I wanna read anything about feminism I could just go to their subreddit, they won’t allow anyone posting anything about men’s right, hell, I get blocked just by posting stuff here....

Calbroo · 2018-01-17T15:32:57+00:00

T l d r everything - Feminism is a social and political movement. Feminism is about changing the way that people see male and female rights (mainly female), and campaigning for equal ones. Somebody who follows feminism is called a feminist.

D a t s w a t I m a b o u t

Title	Why exactly does everyone hate feminism?
Author	Calbroo
Upvotes	1
Comments	110
Date	January 17, 2018 2:44 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7qxvrn/why_exactly_does_everyone_hate_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-exactly-does-everyone-hate-feminism.1180054 https://theredarchive.com/post/1180054

Comments