This sub is so disappointing.

DemonKai7 · 2023-09-11T19:31:33+00:00

10/10 for the effort.

Present_League9106 · 2023-09-11T20:05:41+00:00

Using the concept of "Patriarchy" is how feminists dehumanize men. You can't really believe in it and be fully supportive of men's issues.

Mobile_Lumpy · 2023-09-11T19:47:08+00:00

Look another feminist from 2xchromo or white people Twitter comes in and posing as a MRA genuinely caring about men. Yea yea. Seen a lot of you tourist here lately. Get your nagging and men shaming out of your system and be on your way.

Catbug179 · 2023-09-11T20:30:28+00:00

You just want another r/menslib.

OppositeBeautiful601 · 2023-09-11T20:44:19+00:00

If the patriarchy is bad for both men and women, is it really a patriarchy? I mean, to me the definition of patriarchy is

Men hold the primary power and dominate roles of leadership in political, economic, and social spheres and women are largely excluded from it.
Men use this power to men's advantage and women's disadvantage.

I realize that there are more men in powerful positions, but women can and do hold positions of power and there is no current gendered legal obstacles preventing women from attaining power. Additionally, there have been more laws and institutions created in the past 50 years that uniquely benefit women, not men. In the U.S., we currently have no legislation or governmental agencies that were specifically for the benefit of men.

That's one of the reasons for this sub. Feminists tend to use patriarchy theory to keep the focus of society on making more advantages for women in order to "balance" the scales. The issues that uniquely affect men are being dismissed or ignored altogether. When you come in here and characterize our society as a patriarchy, what we hear you say is that men are privileged and women are disadvantaged and it doesn't align with our lived experiences. What we hear is that you would like us to admit we don't really have it that bad and that we should focus on addressing women's issues instead. That's not going to happen.

Feminism is made to help both genders in the long run.

I don't think so. Here is a link that outlines how gender politics is used to focus on women's issues while ignoring men's:

https://www.reddit.com/r/rbomi/wiki/main/#wiki_section_5.3A_harmful_gender_politics

Finally, while I believe you may actually care about men's issues and grieve the us vs them mentality, you have to know that much of this comes from Feminist rhetoric. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen the following statement posted in Feminist subs about men's issues on reddit:

"Why can't men fix their own problems instead of expecting feminists to do it for them."

General-Teacher5865 · 2023-09-11T19:47:51+00:00

"Feminism is made to help both genders in the long run"

The biggest joke is that you can actually think this is true.

sorebum405 · 2023-09-11T20:14:11+00:00

How do you define patriarchy?

stanfy86 · 2023-09-11T20:31:55+00:00

Another concern troll

SpicyTigerPrawn · 2023-09-11T20:53:13+00:00

Feminism is made to help both genders in the long run.

Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence.

Entire_Committee1891 · 2023-09-11T20:57:06+00:00

Fuck off feminist troll

Wylanderuk · 2023-09-11T21:23:24+00:00

Feminism is made to help both genders in the long run.

Flush...

jessi387 · 2023-09-11T19:35:20+00:00

You’re absolutely clueless

Realistic_Practice16 · 2023-09-11T21:37:32+00:00

You’re barking up the wrong tree, buddy

KrazyJazz · 2023-09-11T21:41:55+00:00

Awwww. Sorry we are not up to your standards, really. Don't let the door hit you in the back on your way out. 2ex and feminism are right around the corner to cajole your feelings.

Edit:

Yeah I'm done replying for the most part now, I dont really have the deficit of a life to keep up.

Ooooh noooooo! That's too bad.

I'm a current politics student so I do kind of know what Im talking about.

This...person, if everything goes as probably "planned", will end up working for some government entity pretty soon. Yup. Awesome. 20/22 years old of age, everybody is wrong. It knows better. Your average college kid in the west.

Edit 2: Nope. Nope. Our bona fide genius is apparently 16, an anti-capitalist communist musician and political science major who has studied "business" for the last two years. You can't make this shit up.

Absolute775 · 2023-09-12T01:29:19+00:00

This is a troll attempt right?

fauciisking · 2023-09-11T22:29:24+00:00

Why is whats good for human equality is called feminism and whats bad is called toxic masculinity and patriarchy? There are womens issues as well this isn't oppression olympics, but trying to downplay all mens issues and suggest anything wrong with being a man is done to himself by himself is foolish and is done only to distract from the conversation. I can understand saying that all men having to dress a certain way and act a certain way could have something to do with the remnants of a previous patriachal society, that makes sense. When a man is falsely accused and given no chance to explain himself, that has nothing to do with a patriarchal system. When a man is physically abused by his wife and still loses half his earnings in the divorce and is forced to pay alimony, that is definitely not patriarchy. And saying all this is due to patriarchy because you saw it in a billion dollar hollywood film based off a brand that is only doing it to clear its name and increase sales is even more foolish. Occasionally in this sub there are posts which do attack women unfairly, but this happens in feminist subs just as much. And besides I always see at least a few people with common sense call these posts out.

barkmagician · 2023-09-11T23:02:11+00:00

if the patriarchy still exists you wouldnt find any male garbagemen nor male oil rig workers.

Heavy_Grand2526 · 2023-09-12T03:02:04+00:00

The patriarchy is not real. We live in a constantly growing gynocentric society which demonizes men for the crime of being born male.

I hope you get better.

11Alive11 · 2023-09-11T22:18:13+00:00

Nobody who believes there's actually a patriarchy in this day and age is on the side of men's rights.

LongDongSamspon · 2023-09-12T03:32:29+00:00

Lmao! “Believe me I’m a politics student”!

Says it all.

peter_venture · 2023-09-12T00:56:18+00:00

As I read this, I'm wondering why you have such a spectacularly skewed perception of what is happening here. I think most on here (excluding you, apparently) aren't at all trying to deny what women go through. Instead, this sub is to show that men go through the same, but we aren't allowed to talk about it elsewhere. An example is in my early days on Reddit, a woman posted about being attacked on public transportation. I mentioned a similar thing happened to me, ending up with me getting eight stiches at my hairline. Well apparently my experience didn't matter, because I'm a man and I was derailing the conversation. Nothing in the conversation said to me it was solely about women, but I learned then that men just can't respond to many things on Reddit. I found MensRights soon after.

Let me say right now that none of the women in my wife do anything like many described here do. That's why this sub is important: it lets us know about things that aren't commonly reported. So often I read, oh, that hardly ever happens, so it's not worth mentioning, or no one should care. No! Why should abuses on men not be talked about?

Then there's how women consider men as a group for all the negative things, but then women aren't a monolith when something is mentioned about them. Or all the things women think are experienced only by them, but aren't: being told to smile (I've been told to smile my whole life, but only ever by women), being talked over in conversation (both men and women do this to both men and women), or being attacked when walking at night (yes, it happens to men a lot more than women).

I could go on and on, but you get the idea, hopefully. Just venting about the very true negatives men experience doesn't mean we hate women, or that there's 'their' side and 'our' side. Just realize that we're tired of being expected to never push back. And also that there is no patriarchy, or women would be able to do all the abusive shit that they do.

r_c29 · 2023-09-12T01:56:28+00:00

Modern day feminism barely supports women themselves let alone men

Sigrep47 · 2023-09-12T10:09:34+00:00

I'm a current politics student so I do kind of know what Im talking about.

Hahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahahahaha

11Alive11 · 2023-09-11T22:27:35+00:00

Nobody who believes there's actually a patriarchy in this day and age is on the side of men's rights.

Minimum_Direction_43 · 2023-09-11T22:01:16+00:00

Modern feminism is a joke and is just veiled MISANDRY. You all are complete bunch of entitled hypocrites. And when men point our your hypocrisy you scream and act like children.

phoenician_anarchist · 2023-09-12T03:28:14+00:00

This sub is instead a really really upsetting attempt to invalidate women's struggle's for some strange reason.

No it isn't. This is just what you've been told, and what you choose to believe.

It should not be us Vs them because thats just going to slow progress.

Tell that to the people making this an us vs. them. (e.g. Feminists)

We need to work together [...]

You don't work with Feminists, you work for them.

[...] and all admit ways that we could personally or societally do better.

Ah yes,the old do better and blaming "society"... You lot can't make any "arguemnt" without blaming men and "society", can you?

Yeah I'm done replying for the most part now, I dont really have the deficit of a life to keep up.

Claiming the moral high ground, I see...

I don't hate men, noor do I hate women, the patriarchy can help men but it also hinders them in a lot of ways

Feminism is built upon an anti-male sentiment. If you support Feminism, then you support the hatred of men (and women, to a certain extent).

I'm a current politics student so I do kind of know what Im talking about.

No fucking shit....

"you just don't understand!" {neo-marxism}
appeal to authority
head stuck up your arse...

Men are allowed to have social and societal issues too, [...]

Thank you for the permission, oh wise one, you are most kind and most gracious! How can we ever repay you?

[...] very few people are actually denying that.

There are actually quite a lot of them, Feminists only "care" about men's issues when it benefits them. {critical race theory}

But when you only bring up these issues when people are trying to talk about women's issues it just makes you generally unlikeable.

Hello, projection, my old friend...

The reason why men's issues are brought up in these circumstances is because Feminists deny that it happens to men, e.g. Presenting domestic violence as a solely women's issue and ignoring (or marginalising 🤣) male victims (and blaming men for it).

Any of you will actually take anything from this post I beg you, please learn to see the other side. Because I've seen both,

Most of us have "seen the other side" and fully well understand it, that's why we're here...

I was on your guy's side not too long ago and I was genuinely so much more spiteful and resentful than I am now.

The enlightened sinner has repented for his sins and denounces his wicked ways! Have the decency to read your book before you preach to me, you fool.

Just interact with things you woulndt normally or talk to people who might be able to shed some lights on womens issues.

I don't know if you've noticed, but it's kind of hard not to... Feminism (and the like) is constantly being shoved down our throats at every opportunity, and I do not consent!

I feel like there are a lot of people here who feel like they've been told that theyre the problem and feel almost shunned and I get that I really do.

No. They have been told that they're the problem, they are shunned. Fuck off with this dismissive "feel like", you don't "get it".

But you're basing a whole massive ideology on the actions of a very select few people.

Wrong again. We judge the ideology based on the ideology (well, mostly... but can you really blame them for being angry and misguided?)

You realise how wrong and how few they are [...]

... yes, master...

[...] when you try to look at it more objectively with all the evidence set out.

What evidence? Thier evidence? 🤣🤣

We have plently of obective, verifiable, demostrable, evidence to the contrary. You're going to need something big to counter all of that!

Extension-Humor4281 · 2023-09-12T05:30:42+00:00

If patriarchy sucks for both men and women, then it's not a patriarchy. It's just society. Plus the only truly privileged people in society are rich people, i.e. <1% of men. Women can complain about how crappy women had it a century ago, but that's all it is, the past. Women today, in the first world at least, are the most privileged and protected class of people in existence. They're the beneficiaries of the majority of social welfare programs and affirmative action policies, despite overwhelmingly outperforming young men in the education system and in the 20-30 job market.

I'm also tired of women blaming men for their own choices in life and blaming it on "pressure." People say "so many women give up their careers because they feel pressure to have children and be the homemaker." Yeah, guess what? That's your choice. You know what's also your unilateral choice? Having children to begin with. You aren't oppressed if you have the ability to say no and aren't punished for doing so.

And before some person inevitably chimes in with "but in some states women can't have abortions, so the only sure way to not have children is abstinence." Correct. Welcome to the world that men have existed in forever, where any random sexual triste could lead to children, regardless of your own feelings about it. Isn't equality great?

Miles-Standoffish · 2023-09-12T00:35:45+00:00

Patriarchy?

It is to laugh.

Mcboyo238 · 2023-09-12T08:18:51+00:00

Give me reasons how feminism has helped men. I'm not mad, just genuinely curious, especially since you've studied politics.

DeddestNash · 2023-09-12T13:12:22+00:00

Could you actually be a bit more clear on where women's struggles are invalidated here, I'm not trying to make it sound like there is none but I just want to know what that is.

Also when you say that you want the sub to stop being men Vs women where do you draw the line?

Can a man speak out about how all the women in his life are being misandrist and disgusting or talking about the mass amounts of false accusations created by women? Or practically talking about anything that can be deemed as unfair to men? Or do you call this attacking women and invalidating them because it puts them in a bad light?

It's all in your taste of course but taking that away gives men nothing and he can't actually talk about men's struggles anymore if it involves talking about women (which in alot of cases, it probably does). So now the men can't talk about their problems in this sub if it even involves the word women, but the women in their sub can actually just full on be misandrist in their own sub and be allowed to do so.

This sub probably isn't going to achieve world peace and complete fairness to the universe, it's to help men who don't know what to do in their situation and to be able to freely talk about the issues they face.

I know that there are a few disgruntled men in here that do come out and say things about women that aren't exactly true or that are just hateful for the sake of being so, but you're gonna get that regardless really.

I've had many men be very accomodating and be very willing to talk with me as a woman here in this sub and I don't think I've personally seen much wrong doings here. It's a sub great for people like me who are willing to learn about things that aren't personal to them, alot of the times I will never be able to understand some of the scenarios stated here but I will probably learn something meaningful from it.

Dkpokefan72 · 2023-09-12T05:53:57+00:00

I agree but partially

As rarely does any one talk about "men's rights"

Most posts I see are just about why women have it better

Straight-Maybe-9390 · 2023-09-11T21:09:11+00:00

You won't find any good faith conversations here brother, I agree that it's disappointing.

If this sub genuinely cared about men's issues, they'd be going after people like Andrew Tate who push toxic gender roles which cause things like high suicide rates for us.

When I was younger and hadn't healed from the damage toxic women had done to me, I agreed pretty closely with everything you see on here. As I've grown and healed, I've moved away from these types of divisive and angry beliefs. The men on here are just hurt.

Edit: Also it's really funny that someone replied that there are good faith thinkers here and then immediately blocked me.

MembershipWooden6160 · 2023-09-13T07:52:56+00:00

OP you're using very heinous approach. I presume you're a woman. First question is do you support men's right to choose whether they want to be a father? It is such a widespread issue in US, 1 in 9 newborns will see a legal first in court in order to force some man to put his name on birth certificate. There's a reason why it came to this, but let's be very blunt: you can't force men to be fathers and placing 100,000 men in jail this year is still not achieving any change there. One such incarceration is one too many and return of debtor prisons is slavery at its finest. Feminism not only supports it, it is an ardent participant in perpetuating this BS.

On the other hand, about HALF of all children won't be seeing their father in their home by the time they reach legal adulthood. This is strong factor that caused mas refusal of fatherhood in first place. Despite the fact that some of the fathers even in 1970s were simply better off NOT being part of their children's lives, fact is that vast majority of these men were removed from children's lives upon the moment of divorce - they were seen as optional parents by these women, courts, and yes, feminists, who also happened to shape legal system in such manner through lobbying. Having half kids effectively fatherless by the age of 18 looks like US is undergoing some disastrous war that claimed lives of so many men - yet there wasn't any major involvement by US men in a war ever since Vietnam War - Iraqi and Afghan war had so few casualties in terms of US military lives that it's even laughable to see it as a cause of such fatherlessness.

So, in essence, feminism declared war on families and fathers - a father is effectively an optional parent and new generations of men are raised with such notion. This is why, despite strong religious pressure and other pressures, so many people, a growing number with each year, happen to actively avoid marriage, but they also happen to avoid fatherhood, or they try to. They now see themselves as optional parents - and they are the ones opting NOT to be parents, yet feminist agenda wants to enforce this upon them. A paradigm shift mainly happened because today you have an increasing proportion of youth who find it much better to be weekend parent at best and to offload the burden on someone else - mainly a mother, since the huge proportion of people were raised in single-mother households. The whole socialization, traveling and getting to know yourself, having fun and yes, "moving on with other young women" is a fad for so many men - and feminists don't want to give them that option now, to opt out of fatherhood.

This is just one of numerous topics where you'll see why it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a middle road between MRA and Feminism, because the MRA goes with the notion that every man should make a decision for himself about any of such crucial, life-altering decisions - yet Feminism wants to claim all the decision-making for women and all the responsibility upon men. In its efforts to keep it that way, Feminism has been allied with Conservatives for 50+ years in order to get all the choices and modernity for themselves, while fully pressing men and utilizing Conservatives to keep men in Medieval age when it comes to any law and concern regarding men's choices. They basically want to define masculinity in a way that shapes THEIR interests and they don't shy away from anything in order to achieve their goals of keeping the status quo. I'm not even talking about "few individuals", there are dozens of millions affected and just about every man is affected in this way or another. Women's issues you speak about are generally regulated with tons of laws and all of these laws are bent in order to ensure you have all the choice if possible - and ZERO accountability if possible. Yet men's issues are regularly policed so that men have ZERO choice and all the accountability and possibility to get screwed.

In case if you TL;DR: We aren't allied and cannot be because you actively sabotage and block men to have any say or choice on anything, while creating tons of traps to f*ck them up and making them responsible for everything, including women's stupid choices. You're supporting stacking the deck to f*ck up generations of men and sons of their sons. That's you. You support policing and imprisoning men for bad behavior, you codify morality into laws to impress and imprison men, yet you support giving women a free pass to do anything and blame it on men. In fact you blame all men. You belong to r/AskFeminists or r/MensLib. Go over there and have a talk in an echo chamber that bans any discussion or concern regarding men's real issues. Go on and join these a$$holes in gaslighting men. Enjoy while it lasts, becaause there's plenty of men now who don't like it and can challenge the very same guys who enable you to do all tha sh1t. Don't be surprised if MRAs invent articifial womb and push these same Conservatives to outlaw pregnancy. That way you will finally be like men - because you won't be having any other option.

mrID007 · 2023-09-15T06:13:48+00:00

Name an area where the average dude has it pretty good. I wish you luck.

Title	This sub is so disappointing.
Author	Alexhasadhd
Upvotes	0
Comments	148
Date	September 11, 2023 6:32 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16g34t6/this_sub_is_so_disappointing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-sub-is-so-disappointing.1231490 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231490

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