Why are men's problems discussed primary by Conservatives, whilst women problems prinarily by leftists?

SvitlanaLeo · 2024-02-16T22:45:08+00:00

Unfortunately, there is a long left tradition to view men as cannon fodder for world socialist revolution and women as those who need liberation. Conservative politics don't actually support men's rights. Conservative judges often justify discrimination against men as "justified by traditions". Unfortunately, the only allies of masculists are masculists, and we need to criticize all the contemprorary political mainstream.

BadmonTG23 · 2024-02-16T22:15:55+00:00

It’s a way to polarize us

Jealous-Factor7345 · 2024-02-16T22:34:36+00:00

It's because social commentary on the left is primarily about breaking down social hierarchies and viewing social problems through the lens of oppressed/oppressor dynamics.

In gender, the oppressor is men and it's a much harder sell to suggest we need to help oppressors.

Not to say that there aren't thoughtful ways that folks on the left have approached the topic, but this sentiment runs deep and cuts across the left.

The right is largely about upholding hierarchies, because it is believed that social hierarchies are part of what make society function successfully. Because men are seen as heading these hierarchies, problems with men are seen as evidence that society is failing, and is therefore of large concern.

HumansDisgustMe123 · 2024-02-16T22:28:32+00:00

In my opinion, it's because humans rarely ever leave their bubbles. Right wingers hang around right wingers just as left wingers hang around left wingers. Humans are terrified at the prospect of being ostracised by their group so left-wing MRAs tend to keep quiet whilst right-wing MRAs can be more vocal since they know they won't be attacked by their own circle.

Think about it, if you're in a right-wing echo-chamber, you're not going to care that leftists hate you because a) it's outside of the bubble where you spend most of your time, and b) the opinions of people you're diametrically opposed to are effectively irrelevant. Politics has gone feral and fully embraced tribalism and group-think, which gives a double-edged sword in that you can support or detract issues that follow the party line as much as you want with practically no negative repercussions, but you can't even dip your toe into a subject outside of the line without the leopards eating your face.

Put it this way, take the US as an example: their right wing base is far more forgiving of literal Naziism than the time Trump tried to encourage vaccinations. The bubble will allow any right-winger to graduate their attacks from simple border-paranoia all the way to blatant xenophobia, but even their top-dog can't talk about vaccine efficacy in a positive light without his most ardent supporters booing him.

Likewise, the US left-wing bubble is quite happy to champion forgiveness and give a platform to people like Donna Hylton, someone who was complicit in the torture, rape and murder of a man, but you'll probably get doxxed and shat on repeatedly online if you dare to suggest in left-wing spaces that she is not someone we should promote.

This tribalist dichotomy means that it's the right-wingers who can more effectively champion men's rights without repercussion. Each side of the political aisle comes with an unwritten guide on subjects which can be spoken of positively, those that can be spoken of negatively, and those that cannot be spoken of under any circumstances.

Azihayya · 2024-02-17T01:12:48+00:00

Do conservatives actually talk about men's problems, or are they just trying to galvanize men towards reactionary solutions, even if it means manufacturing problems that don't exist?

Tinfoil_Haberdashery · 2024-02-16T23:25:36+00:00

Conservatives, at least, high-profile ones, don't discuss men's issues--not in any detail, at least. Because their policies are often, if not the core issue, a huge contributor to the severity of the symptoms.

Workplace deaths? Conservatives oppose unions and regulatory agencies. Incarceration? Conservatives are "tough on crime". Homelessness? Conservatives oppose wage increases. Suicide? Conservatives promote male stoicism and oppose gun control.

Liberals might bad-mouth men at every turn, but they actually push to solve some of society's biggest problems--and since, though they'd never admit it, most of society's biggest problems disproportionately effect men, liberals are men's best option, policy-wise.

Pro-male conservative lip service is a cynical ploy for votes. Actions may speak louder than words mteaphorically, but the right knows that no amount of contemptuously destructive policy-making will drown out the left's vitriolic anti-male rhetoric, so male votes are easy. Lip-service is all you need.

Virtual_Piece · 2024-02-17T02:35:21+00:00

In the eyes of leftist, women are oppressed and men are oppressors so men bad, women good. If you understand the way of seeing things through the oppressed/oppressor narrative you can apply it to just about any belief they have.

standardtrickyness1 · 2024-02-16T22:37:07+00:00

The modern leftist focuses on

1) the injustices of the past so everything good that women don't make a good chunk of gets infused with you know for much of history women weren't allowed to do ...

male privilege is basically something that existed in the past where women weren't allowed to go to school have careers etc.

2) discrepancies and assumes them to be the result of discrimination and "privilege"

So basically they look at say women run 10% of fortune 500 companies and conclude discrimination privilege etc

The modern conservative looks at the here and now and at laws and policies and sees no sexist policies (in favor of men) and conclude fairness.

Impressive_Gap_3490 · 2024-02-17T09:30:06+00:00

As I see it a lot of right-wing groups adopt men's issues as a reactionary impulse similar to the rise of All-lives matter movements as a reaction to BLM. The way to test this is in conversation show appreciation for their desire for positive action and then investigate whether and how they are making efforts to propose solutions for the problems they identified.

I had a conversation with an All-Lives-Activist once where I discovered that they were only concerned with foetus lives and the lives of their own immediate family but not homeless people, cancer patients, LGBTQ+, immigrants, people struggling with addictions, and weirdly even some elderly people.

Sometimes there's a big difference between what people say and what people do and can be observed on an individual scale to a mass societal scale.

Intrepid_Cry_9172 · 2024-02-17T20:54:55+00:00

Conservatives don't discuss men's problems on priority.

They discuss family problems and men are needed for that so that ends up discussing men's problems in a way that helps them.

Leftists either focus on the working class (both men and women) and women because they believe women are oppressed and so that needs immediate attention according to them.

It's the belief in patriarchy which comes from feminism that makes leftists ignore male issues for women's issues.

Both parties have recently started discussing men's issues, Richard Reeves (feminist) and conservatives because of the fear of the manosphere/redpill people like Andrew Tate.

It's not coming out of empathy. It's coming out of protection for women.

VisceralSardonic · 2024-02-17T01:47:49+00:00

Are you talking about legislators or voters? Because as a social worker, I see tons of leftists talk about male issues, but I work and live in an environment that’s not representative of everyone, of course. I’ve attended multiple talks about male teenage mental health specifically, seen leftists advocate for the male-specific societal issues, heard leftists advocate for men being included in more conversations to eliminate the female-specific bias, etc. I’ve seen dozens of very staunchly leftist men and women dedicate their lives to male mental health and social problems. I’m not saying it’s everywhere, high up enough, effective enough, or solving everything, but leftists are definitely trying to solve the problems that men face in many of the areas that leftists are trying to solve societal problems in general.

The thing is, without any value judgement applied, leftists are more frequently in the business of solving problems on a societal level. Conservative philosophy is more about individuals solving their own problems. Leftists also tend to overlap with feminists more for this reason. Leftists tend to see situations as a product as many combinations of societal, individual, and social factors. Conservatives tend to think that problem solving resides with the individual. This also pairs with progressives (progress past the injustice of the moment) and conservatives (keep the ways of the past).

In my experience, that means that most fights for rights are taken up on the left. That includes men’s rights, and there are enough leftist men on this page to prove that handily. Leftists are addressing mental health, suicidality, loneliness, etc. more, which can be expressed and proven by the funding and representation each issue has.

However, there are still more men on the right. People tackle the issues they know best. The fight for feminism is ongoing on the left, and many men feel alienated by that. Leftism is also a quagmire of tons of issues overlapping, taking space from each other, etc. A lot of those movements view men as the source of their oppression, so men get alienated more than most. Conservativism, however much they’re actually solving things (truly, I have researched this and don’t see too much work on the male suicide rate on the right, but am happy to incorporate new evidence), represent men because leftism is representing everyone else, sometimes at the expense of men.

That’s a positive feedback loop too— the gaps between left and right grow, leftists associate men with conservativism and conservatism with men, and each associates the other as the enemy. I truly think that much of the work for male mental health resources will come from the left purely because of philosophy and allocation of resources, but I don’t think it will be a friendly ride because leftists aren’t trying to appeal to men or welcome men in the slightest, while conservatives are.

tzaanthor · 2024-02-17T00:04:03+00:00

I'm trying to understand this, why would gender discussions be entangled in two opposing political philosophies?

Two things:

The left is in the habit of defending the weaker group's interests, while the right defends the stronger's. Since women are the minority in most cases, this means the left targets women as it's voting base, while the right targets men.
Both sides wrongly extrapolate that men are ALWAYS the ones with power, and women are ALWAYS the ones out of power. And since the voting blocs of each party control the party, this means that they both demand policies that marginalise the other group, with the end result being a consolidation of the groups into two distinct parties. Simply put: the more right wing policies disfavour women the more men vote for them, and vice versa

NegotiationBetter837 · 2024-02-17T12:31:00+00:00

Liberals, not leftists. If capitalism would fuck up men as well, they can't promote their fair form of capitalism that they use to justify capitalism in the first place. That's why the rich promote this stuff, so them exploiting the working class is more seen as a success story by them, like 'sure, there are poor people, but look at this rich person, you share an identity with them. That's like you are rich'.

Liberals don't care and conservatives, too.

Skirt_Douglas · 2024-02-18T15:46:29+00:00

Simplified version: Feminist ideology causes the left to abandon men flat out. This leaves men disenfranchised. Cunning as ever, conservatives know you can collect the votes of disenfranchised men if you at least appear to want to listen to them and do something to help them. Conservatives are not going to properly understand or actually address men issues mind you, they really just want to pay them enough lip service to get men’s votes.

Title	Why are men's problems discussed primary by Conservatives, whilst women problems prinarily by leftists?
Author	Realistic_W8974
Upvotes	85
Comments	47
Date	February 16, 2024 2:45 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1asaau6/why_are_mens_problems_discussed_primary_by/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/why-are-mens-problems-discussed-primary-by.1245593 https://theredarchive.com/post/1245593

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