Doing it for yourself, the pervasive hamster

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April 21, 2014

"Bro, stop worrying about what other people think. Make your life better for you! Go to the gym and feel better for you! You deserve this, nobody can put you down, it's all about you!"

Fucking bullshit.

Y'all wake up and take estrogen pills this morning?

That self-help plattitude bullshit sounds like seddit had a baby with /r/fatacceptance. Except it wasn't a baby, it was just a really gassy turd, you were too busy stuffing your face with feel good bullshit to realize where it came from.

The Facts

External validation is not only a common need among actual humans, but it's something that can cause severe cognitive dissonance, anxiety, and stress to pretend you don't need it.

The stupid idea that you shouldn't care what others think of you to "feel good about yourself" is precisely what women tell each other so they'll eat another pint of fucking ice cream and take themselves out of the running, making way for real contenders who don't fall victim to that stupid shit.

What people think of you is going to be intrinsically linked to your success as a creature in a social species.

How others perceive you will determine to what extent you can derive benefit from others.

Lacking happiness due to a lack of success is normal, and is the very fucking drive that makes us men. Don't fucking hamster your way out of that thinking and into: "who cares if I'm sexless and alone, I do what I want for me, I'm no slave to peer pressure!!! GO TEAM VIRGIN!!"

External Validation

There is a drive that most men have, to varying degrees, that addicts us to sex, to the pursuit of sex and beautiful women. And for a lot of us, we recognize this and do what it takes to accomplish the goals of attaining these things. Even our drive for financial success stems from our desires for sex and our need to secure it.

Financial success, body building, working out, improving appearance, improving your personality, adopting a sense of humor, and learning to interface people with confidence ARE ALL FOR EXTERNAL VALIDATION. That is why we strive to better ourselves, not because there's some noble goal... as though on our death beds we'll get the score chart and say "good thing I did it all for me!"

External validation technically is for you. Sexual strategy is the pursuit of happiness, with the goal of maximizing potential happiness. You cannot write off women just because you suck at them. Let the drive, the feelings of inadequacy, the crippling depression or loneliness DRIVE YOU to succeed. Don't embrace happiness with mediocrity because we live in a hamster culture that lies to everybody and tells you you're good enough and change should only be for you(TM). Change is for success, success (for better or worse) is for validation. Validation is one of many sources of satisfying our evolutionary drives.

If you want to really boil it down, we've been gifted the evolutionary curse of wanting to spread our genes and create as much of us as we can.

Finding inner peace with who you are is an important part of living a happy life. But do not let this lull you into a life of mediocrity because some alphabro on the red pill decided you're working too hard to get pussy, and that you should only be motivated to do it for yourself.

Want to know what successful guys think?

That the hot chick at the bar you could never ever bang? If you want that, you will have to do work. It's not being a slave to pussy, it's fucking putting in the actual legwork to get what you want. For some of you, that means completely fucking changing every little thing about you, getting rid of the gut, clearing your acne, getting a hair cut, getting a job, quitting smoking, working out, and reading some fucking books so you can be more interesting than a chair when you try to have a conversation. There are those that would say "you shouldn't have to change who you are to find love..." You know what I was doing while those people were sitting there diddling themselves? I went out and fucked that hot girl that you could never touch. The guy who does that embraced this. Do not lie to yourself to feel better about not accomplishing what great men have accomplished.

You can keep telling yourself that it's good to be happy with being poor, and only get the job that makes you happy... or you can remember that getting rich is fucking hard work, and it's going to be grueling. And at the end of the day, that hard work is the only way to get the payoff. And that hard work is just satisfying a stupid evolutionary urge to get your dick wet. But that is what we are.

People who score high on a Machiavellian test need no reminding. There is no shame, there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail. What you tell yourself in between will either motivate you, or rationalize your failure. Recognize what you are, set your goals, and stop fucking rationalizing.

Post Information
Title Doing it for yourself, the pervasive hamster
Author redpillschool
Upvotes 265
Comments 90
Date 21 April 2014 03:05 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
cognitive dissonancehamsterthe red pill

[–][deleted] 92 points93 points  (5 children) | Copy

Great post combatting the bullshit I've been seeing here lately about just being happy with yourself.

Something I've realized regarding the difficult dichotomy of not caring what people think but also working incredibly hard to make people respect you and validate you externally is as follows:

We always hear don't give a shit what girls think. Truthfully, you should not care what any individual woman or person thinks of you. Some chick doesn't like you? Forget that shit. She's one girl. But you should absolutely care about your overall success with women and people in general. If one individual thinks you suck, well, you can't please everyone. But you absolutely need to find people who think you're the shit.

Being willing to have certain people dislike you is not only a good quality but an absolute necessity if you are ever going to find people who love your qualities - you have to differentiate yourself, and be willing to piss people off. Haters to the left. Like my grandfather used to say, you're not doing anything right until somebody wants you dead. But if nobody finds you valuable, you're doing it wrong. You need to build yourself into the kind of person that can attract similar-minded individuals.

Edit: Thanks for the gold

[–]HitlersCow17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

Law 2

Never put too Much Trust in Friends, Learn how to use Enemies

Be wary of friends-they will betray you more quickly, for they are easily aroused to envy. They also become spoiled and tyrannical. But hire a former enemy and he will be more loyal than a friend, because he has more to prove. In fact, you have more to fear from friends than from enemies. If you have no enemies, find a way to make them.

-48 Laws of Power

Your grandfather was a smart man.

[–]sam_sing 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

There are true friends, friends and there are "friends", aka acquiantances. The problem is the word has lost its meaning in times of facebook where you can have 100s of friends. Dont confuse these 3 kinds and you are good.

[–]HitlersCow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

While I wishfully agree with you, my pragmatic side disagrees almost completely.

Friends, even "true friends," are people. Just people. People get jealous, people brew contempt, people do stupid and immoral things.

Do yourself a favor and remember your friends are people who, just like you, are susceptible to expedient comforts and pleasures. They may not, however, be as able or willing to refuse those expediences in the name of honor.

[–]icanteventhecat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree. TRP is specifically about realizing and accepting realities even if they are uncomfortable truths. There's nothing wrong with wanting approval or validation. It's part of being human and living in a society.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan50 points51 points  (3 children) | Copy

Edit: This post is now a blog post:

[–]let_terror_reign0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Commenting to save. Illimitableman's posts are always great food for thought.

[–]robesta14 points15 points  (7 children) | Copy

My personal experience is: once I got on TRT at 200mg test EW, I stopped giving a fuck about how other people perceived me. I'd worked on building that frame for a while before that, but the test made the frame my natural disposition.

Another thing to consider. IMHO, the more people think you give a fuck what you think, the more they will challenge you. For people who naturally give a fuck, this is a negative feedback loop. Meanwhile, if people think you don't give a fuck what they think, the opposite will happen and you'll get a positive feedback loop.

Validation is effeminate by nature. Men thrive on the real output, women thrive on social interactions. Women, even when they succeed at their goal need validation. Men, completing the mission is validation in itself. There are people in between these two extremes, but I think it's pretty accurate overall.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Obviously you cannot allow your concern to control you or your emotional state. But monitoring your performance and people's reception to you, while properly tweaking your behavior to maximize your success is important.

Always be honest with yourself about your part in social interactions.

[–]robesta0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely. Good point. Didn't think about it that way.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The whole point in preaching a disconnect from external validation is not that "what other people think of you doesn't matter because you're a beautiful snowflake".

The point in preaching a disconnect from external validation is to get men to stop thinking in terms of serving the needs of everybody else, and to get them to start thinking in terms of serving their own needs, which is the number one problem with men today.

It's this HYPER-AWARENESS and over-reaching desire to earn external validation that produces the 'nice-guy' and results in anxiety and depression.

If you're working out and making a shit-ton of money just so you can earn the validation of women, you may look alpha, you may smell alpha, you may act alpha, but inside, you're beta because your entire existence revolves around you servicing the needs of women.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well I'd say that both are tied together.

You cannot be successful without being confident. To be confident you will have to become the best possible version of yourself. To become this version will require a lot of hard work.

The thing is that everybody knows his flaws pretty good deep inside but lives in denial of them, because it's easier to blame god and the world for his failure. Fat people know they are too fat and should change. Ungroomed men know that they stink and look like Pig Pen. But they are also too lazy to take change.

So basically telling somebody to do it for himself isn't that wrong. Everybody ultimatly depends on the validation by others. But "I want people to know me as the nicest person" and "I want to be admired by people for being the most successful person" are different kinds of validation.

I completely disagree about the morals though. There is of course a good and and a bad way. The light side and the darks side. You can either choose to always act selfish and create win-loose situations or you can create win-win situations.

i.e if you manipulate your partner in a relationship using the RP-knowledge you gained will not only make you a happier man but also your partner a happier woman.

This isn't considered as being good if you apply today's western ethics but is morally, and moral is universal, completely good.

Edit: In the contrary fucking around with people just to satisfy your sadistic traits and your hunger to feel power is not good.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

So basically telling somebody to do it for himself isn't that wrong.

Part of the disconnect here on TRP is that some of the platutdes are useful to an extent. Not caring at first is a great way to falsely boost confidence until you've got it. Gotta fake it till you make it.

But I still feel that these platitudes are mostly detrimental, and belong in seddit. I think being honest with yourself and persevering is more useful than lying to yourself to get a desired goal.

I completely disagree about the morals though. There is of course a good and and a bad way. The light side and the darks side. You can either choose to always act selfish and create win-loose situations or you can create win-win situations.

Choosing dark enlightenment doesn't require you to shortsightedly choose short term success to the detriment of your long term success. Just because it's dark doesn't make it more greedy, it's just more honest about the greed.

[–]rj886310 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Most platitudes are fucking useful unless you actually apply them and have a reason to apply them. Spouting them all day gets you nowhere.

[–]steadymotion6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail.

Yep, you got it. I've been telling people this for ages. Drop your fucking ego and sense of moral righteousness and admit you're a sad sack of shit and you need to put in some work to make yourself more attractive so people will like you. That's real happiness. You can only be happy with yourself when you're happy with how you're treated by people around you.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

there are only those who succeed, and those who fail.

To add to this: there's really no middle ground in real life. Stop telling yourself or people you tried.

Nobody gives a shit.

[–]Haraklus1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If someone tries persistently, I personally do give a shit. Because that leads to success. Trying is a sign of a future successful person, assuming their goals are reasonable.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It is true. But you are qualifying my point. In the end, success or failure are the only points on a spectrum people are interested in.

[–]Haraklus-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy


[–]anon4453 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol what??

You can only be happy with yourself when you're happy with how you're treated by people around you.

That's demonstrably not true, although it is difficult.

I have a lot of respect for redpillers who find a drive to improve themselves and see things for what they are, but I dislike this idea that there's only one way to achieve a sense of peace/contentment/happiness/bliss/etc. One doesn't need sex or validation to feel good overall, but most people do.

[–]Freiling2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the side of TRP that I like c:

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

[–]redrick_schuhart5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Jack Donovan's The Way of Men points out that a man's real validation comes from other men. His explanation of the meritocracy based on the masculine virtues - strength, courage, mastery and honor - that quickly forms in any group of men is very compelling.

Do the work. Drive yourself until you succeed. But make sure your external validation comes from other men: men better, stronger or more courageous than yourself.

[–]Infinitezen5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy

"People who score high on a Machiavellian test need no reminding. There is no shame, there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail."

It's this attitude that has our whole society and environment going down the shit hole. I agree that we all need validation, but morality is definitely tied to happiness and social cohesion. You might "succeed" but you are implying that success is worth any cost, and it's not. What I define as alpha is able to build and create value, and then attract mates, without slash and burn tactics which are both personally self destructive and destructive to society.

I'm not asking this as an insult by the way, but have you ever considered that you might be a sociopath? Again, I'm not trying to call you out or anything, your statements just lead me to believe that might be the case.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

If those who succeed are wrong, and those who fail are right, what meaning have your words?

[–]Infinitezen0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That is why "succeed" is in quotes. Success is all a matter of your goals and objectives. If you say you have "succeeded", is it not a fair question to ask "at what"?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Obviously, at the end of the day, you decide your goals and work towards them. Only you will know if you set your goals according to your needs and desires, or tried to subvert your needs and desires by setting contradictory goals to your biological programming...

But if you limit your ability to reach your goals because of an imposed morality, the questions you need to ask yourself are:

  1. Who designed this morality?
  2. Who benefits from this morality?
  3. When other people succeed at my goals by breaking this morality, how do I benefit?
  4. Can I succeed with this morality?
  5. If only the people who break the morality succeed at these goals, are my goals wrong, or is my version of morality?

If you are the sole arbiter of your morality, why would your morality stand in the way of your goals? (Or more aptly, why would you allow your morality to impede your progress on self-set goals?)

If your goals can only be accomplished by other people breaking your morality, then ask yourself, why would your goals be wrong if you're the sole arbiter of your goals?

Eventually something has to give. Most people question the goals when they find something too hard.

Maybe climbing a cliff is too hard for you, so you change your goals to a small mole hill. But if you ever want to climb that cliff, you should really wonder why one of your values is "don't use rope."

A good portion of culturally acceptable moral values shoot yourself in the foot. "Don't date younger women, it's wrong." Who is that benefiting?

[–]Infinitezen-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Quality response.

I certainly agree that many peoples definition of "morality" is absurd and self serving (like your example of "Don't date younger women). To me, it just seemed like you were saying morality was irrelevant if success was achieved. My response was simply that it seems a greater happiness comes from achieving your goals in a way which is consistent with your morality. If your morality seems to be in the way of achieving those goals, by all means question it! But if you find that your moral positions are well thought out and firmly in place because of your own logic and not the hamstering of others, and morality is still keeping you from your goals, then the nature of your goals should also be similarly questioned.

It's natural to to want to climb the mountain, but if the only way to do that is to create a ladder from corpses, then you might reconsider your goals feasibility. And if someone tries to violently stop you from building that ladder of corpses, that should be the response you expect. Obviously that's hyperbole, but the logic holds.

Thank you for your well thought out reply. I think we probably agree on more than we disagree.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]HighAngleAlpha0331-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damned right! The base of this current civilization is Western man, his thoughts and accomplishments. Now, outside parasitic forces have convinced us that White Men are Evil, especially those that strive to per sue the traits of the men that made Western Civilization.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe-2 points-1 points  (6 children) | Copy

A true alpha is able

Angus declares that Scotsmen do not put sugar on their porridge, to which Lachlan points out that he is a Scotsman and puts sugar on his porridge. Furious, like a true Scot, Angus yells that no true Scotsman sugars his porridge.

I'm not asking this as an insult by the way, but have you ever considered that you might be a sociopath?

I'm not asking this as an insult by the way, but have you ever considered that you might be a woman?

[–]Infinitezen0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Some people are sociopaths, it's just a genetic condition. It's not a choice people make, but people should be self aware enough to realize it if they are.

Also, "Alpha" is a purely subjective term to begin with. I guess I could preface and add "What I define as alpha" but that seems redundant. You use "woman" as a pejorative, while i explicitly did not use "sociopath" that way. Sociopaths exist, and if you don't believe there is a right or wrong way to do things, than you might be one, in my opinion. A "scotsman" is simply anyone who lives in Scotland. All analogies have to break down somewhere.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

You are using the word sociopath as a pejorative.

but people should be self aware enough to realize it if they are

Why? Why should they realize that they are a sociopath? So they can see the error of their ways and stop being one?

Also, applying ""What I define as [TERM]" to a subjective term is the inverse of redundant. It removes the tone that by default enforces a declaration. Especially when the mods have specifically warned against the extension of the no true scotsman fallacy to include "no true alpha(searchable)".

You used the term alpha in a declarative manner. Don't hide behind subjectivity when you're called on it.

[–]Infinitezen-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

"Why? Why should they realize that they are a sociopath? So they can see the error of their ways and stop being one?"

So they can be aware of their true nature, and because knowledge of ones self is universally desirable to ignorance? Also, how am I using sociopath as a pejorative exactly? It might be a loaded word, but it is a thing which exists and must be acknowledged in this kind of discussion.

I'm not "hiding" behind anything and I have attacked no one. Here, I will go back and edit my original post so we can stay on topic. Self improvement for it's own sake is merely about trying to live up to the standards which you set for yourself, which should be your source of self esteem. Personally, I only let the judgment of others effect me if I have respect for their intellect/judgment to begin with. It's from these standards that self esteem flows, not the fawning praise of sluts.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

So they can be aware of their true nature, and because knowledge of ones self is universally desirable to ignorance?

Since you are so adversely affected by ignorance I assume that you know how sausage is made? It's not a pretty process and most people would rather not know.

Does knowing you are a sociopath change anything? At all? No. A sociopath would still give zero fucks and carry on with his day. You can call a sociopath the god of ass cancer and he would agree with you if it benefited him.

It seems important to you, though, that a sociopath becomes aware he is a sociopath. And, he'll gladly comply if acknowledging his sociopathic mental disorder gives him the upper hand.

Also, how am I using sociopath as a pejorative exactly?

If you weren't, then why did you go to great lengths to qualify your statement?

I'm not asking this as an insult by the way, but... [insult]

[–]Infinitezen-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

People who would "rather not know" are just cowards in my opinion. If that means that most people are cowards, then unfortunately I would have to agree. The truth often hurts, but it is still preferable to lies in almost every case. I view knowledge as an end to itself, because it allows you to act in a more informed manner.

Also, I admitted that the word was loaded, that is why I qualified it. Sociopath is largely used as an insult, but that doesn't change the reality of it.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

The reality is that sociopaths generally both know and get what they want from life. That doesn't sound like a bad path to me.

[–]TheD_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

majority of success with women for me right now won't be found in getting 25 lbs on my bench, getting better at passing guard or making 10k more a year, but by taking action with women now.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points | Copy

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[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Ultimately, it is about your happiness, but trying to pretend your happiness is completely fueled by yourself for yourself is a lie. For me, I am not entirely happy unless I am attracting potential mates.

Being ok with people hating you is important too, it's just important to know why they do, and important to make the distinction on whether or not you need/want to change certain behaviors.

When you set up your goals and strategies, it should anticipate a margin of failure. For instance, my strategy is successful with an acceptable level of failure.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You know that high estrogen makes you feel realy good right. If you have High estrogen, you will be bloated however you will also have a heightened sence of well being. Don't believe me take dbol. Still don't belive me? Bring your estrogen down to zero with letrozol.


[–]Crazystarf0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Not sure if sarcasm

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

try those drugs and find out

[–]gargintua0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

self improvement is not about being lazy, its about IMPROVING. and theres a difference between bending backwards for every single person you meet and not giving a fuck what the haters say (i hate that term).

[–]ShitlordInExile0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wait, this can't be right. All the new redpill posters have been assuring me that all you need is confidence.

Just kidding. Excellent post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

People who score high on a Machiavellian test need no reminding. There is no shame, there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail. What you tell yourself in between will either motivate you, or rationalize your failure. Recognize what you are, set your goals, and stop fucking rationalizing.


That was fuckin beautiful

[–]ChauvOtoo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with 99% of what you're saying.

I think that the advice of "Stop listening to what someone tells you to be and do what you want; go fucking achieve something" has become "just be yourself".

The fact is, that when someone is telling you to be something else; there is a fucking agenda. If it's a chick, she wants your dick or your cash (most of the time cash because she wants dick that tells her what to do, not the other way around).

I agree with the idea of "Don't care what people think of you", but it's not in the sense that some take it. It's not about "being yourself", it's about taking charge.

I would change it to this:

"You should care about how you are viewed by almost everyone, family, plates, co-workers, wife, etc. However, they won't view you in the way that you want them to; until you stop giving a fuck how they view you."

[–]long-lostfriend0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of truth here.

People get hung up on the false dichotomy of "living my life for me" vs. "being in constant pursuit of the poon." While a monomaniacal fixation on getting laid is a pretty juvenile approach to life, being desired by desirable women (as well as having the respect of respectable men) is a very worthy goal. It is a mark of distinction and serves to validate the general self-improvement that one is making in life.

[–]1mr_throwz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Is the "external validation" for others or for...


[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Do guys do that? Give up and hamster away that they cant get laid by saying the don't want to? What kind of butthurt loser does that? I can see being disgusted by how women are shallow, vapid, and uninteresting outside a series of moist holes, but to not want to fuck?

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The incel MGTOWs come to mind...

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That is who he was talking about, and I simply can't imagine being like that.

[–]let_terror_reign0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy


[–]FemtoG0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The mindgame I play is to have such high expectations of myself that if I fulfill my own expectations, then external validation comes freely and easily.

[–]RedSunBlue0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You cannot write off women just because you suck at them.

Welp, looks like you just sunk the MGTOW movement.

[–]tigolbittiez0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I was always under the impression that the self-improvement movement (heh) that TRP pushes was just for making yourself a better man in general, such that more people will be attracted to you/look to you as a leader, a real man.

I mean, I guess this is to say that I figured the implication that you are making yourself better such that it raises your perceived social status was always there. There's a reason things like SMV are used here. We openly acknowledge that raising your social status is the desired goal for most of what is preached here, from lifting weights to acting more confident and not taking bullshit.

Am I missing the point of this? Are there a lot of people here who read the sub and "participate" but have the mindset that they are okay with being a virgin and they aren't worried about what other people think? I can only assume that's the major source for most of what you wrote here, considering the tone you took. You believe most people here haven't actually swallowed TRP.

I can't prove otherwise, but I have to say, I don't agree with where this post is coming from. I realize you mean well, but I don't know where you're getting the idea that TRP is preaching self-help to tame our inner hamsters. According to phrases like raising your SMV, we are practicing the exact opposite.

Though, I can see how this would help newer members or those that haven't quite yet ingested TRP. For anyone else who felt the same as I did, take what I just said into account, this is more helpful of a read to newer members, or those that may have lost their way.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I was always under the impression that the self-improvement movement (heh) that TRP pushes was just for making yourself a better man in general, such that more people will be attracted to you/look to you as a leader, a real man.

Indeed, this is it. So you read SMV and internalized it.

That's fine.

But that's not the case for everybody, and so I've written it explicitly.

The fact is, there's a common theme that self-improvement is the goal and it becomes just another platitude.

"Don't base your worth on what women think of you. They have no fucking clue what a good thing really is. You pushed yourself and made a decent life out of all that hard work, you don't have to prove SHIT to anyone."

Your life is about YOU. Your self worth is based on what YOU think of YOURSELF. You work to improve YOURSELF for YOURSELF. If, as a by product of this, you happen to attract women as a pleasant diversion, that's great. If not, so fucking what? Life is not about getting pussy.

"Yeah, you are basing your self-worth on what women think". ... "If a woman rate you her plan B, you failed. "

(a bit contradictory here)

All top rated comments. This clearly needed to be addressed.

[–]tigolbittiez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh okay, I was actually just thinking to myself of a few examples of what you'd been describing here and now seeing this post again, makes sense.

I can agree with the sentiment and can see why you'd want to address it. Now that I understand why and who you're aiming this at, it makes sense. Good post!

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

That awkward moment when I'm* the 3rd-highest in that thread.

[–]barneygumbled0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

External validation is obviously important, but in my humble opinion this validation is more in the nature of feeling appreciated, rather than gathering a herd of male sycophants and female sluts. I don't care if the image of myself is appreciated, I want 'what I do' to be appreciated. But ultimately the basis of all this for me has to be enjoyment of the process, enjoyment of the improvement and the work for the sake of it.

I have no interest in what Machiavelli has to say. He's not an objective arbiter of success.

In the end, the question I'm going to ask myself on my deathbed that will be the ultimate test, the ultimate judgment, is "do I live with regret?" I can guarantee that the number of sluts I bedded and currency I accumulated will bear close to zero impact on the answer to this question.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

I have no interest in what Machiavelli has to say. He's not an objective arbiter of success.

I think you're misunderstanding a bit here.

Machiavellianism: "The political doctrine of Machiavelli: any means (however unscrupulous) can be used by a ruler in order to create and maintain his autocratic government"

Machiavellianism, as its implied on red pill is encapsulated by that philosophy. We create strategies with no regard to whether they are moral or serve any 2nd or 3rd party's interest. We discuss only on the basis of what works. I think OP was implying that if you want something, even if its perpetually fucking more women, it doesn't matter if people think its wrong or "you're worshiping pussy". Anything and everything is acceptable to achieve that goal.

It doesn't matter if its validation or appreciation he wants, a Machiavellian man will say "How do I get that?" and then thinks how he can get that faster if he cuts the bullshit that doesn't matter.

[–]barneygumbled0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I think OP was implying that if you want something, even if its perpetually fucking more women, it doesn't matter if people think its wrong or "you're worshiping pussy".

I think he might've also been implying that there's something wrong with you if this is not your ultimate goal.

It's far too didactic. If there's one thing I don't like about this sub it's the shaming of people who simply don't wish to conform to the male biological prime directive. Fuck that, what fulfills me is nobody else's business.

That said, I may have inferred incorrectly from his post regarding Machiavellianism.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think he might've also been implying that there's something wrong with you if this is not your ultimate goal.

You are completely incorrect. He is saying that some external validation, a hot chick slobbing your cock makes for wonderful external validation, is needed by all humans.

If there's one thing I don't like about this sub it's the shaming of people who simply don't wish to conform to the male biological prime directive. Fuck that, what fulfills me is nobody else's business.

This is the hamstering he is referring to. Stop. YOU WANT PUSSY (cock if you're into that) just like me and everyone else. Stop being a pussy. Belly up to the bar and own your desires. You will get better social feedback by owning your desires than by attempting to suppress them.

[–]barneygumbled-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Of course I want pussy. Unless you're asexual, you want sex of some kind.

I don't need it to be happy. That's my point. You can keep calling it hamstering all you like, you're a guy on the internet and I don't care whether you believe me or not.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would argue you do need it to be truly fulfilled.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

There are many paths to success. Machiavellianism is just a way of avoiding unnecessary impediments to your success.

[–]jadedspade0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck I needed to hear this so BAD! Thank you so fucking much for this post I just felt a fire light inside of me. I have been especially more jaded than usual these past couple days because of some rejections and I was debating going MGTOW and fapping my life away.

This is a nice slap in the face to break that train of thought and start a new one. Lets fucking go bitches.

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy

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[–]enticingasthatmaybe-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

"focus on the easy and noticeable things first, gradually tackling the bigger things later"

There is only one way to eat an elephant... one bite at a time.

[–]opgrop0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of narcissism, which is essentially another permutation of just "doing it for yourself."

You don't need external sources to tell you that health is attractive or that money and drive are nice to have. As long as "do it for yourself" doesn't turn into a way to rationalize inaction, there's nothing really wrong with it. There's a difference between self-validation and no validation at all.

Aspire to be a person that YOU respect and admire. Only answer to yourself and hold yourself to some standards. Do that and the external validation takes care of itself because everyone already has similar views on what's valuable.

The problem isn't "doing things for yourself." The problem is deluding yourself about the type of person you truly want to be in order to avoid the work and discomfort to get there.

[–]bassivemalls0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

First of all, let me preface this by saying Red Pill theory is just that--theory. It's knowledge that you can choose to do with what you want, so there really is no right or wrong way to do anything, but since you are arguing there is, I'll argue your point.

I often see people on the forum, much like redpillschool here in this post, become filled with hatred for some reason when they see other people saying people should live their lives making themselves happy. They seem to take this viewpoint personally for some reason.

I don't get the hatred these men have for people who self improve because it makes them happy. Allow me pose a question to the non-nihlists here on this subreddit: What is the point of life? I personally think it is to maximize your happiness while you're still alive. How you feel in life is literally all that matters. Let me repeat that statement: How you feel in life is literally all that matters. That's it.

Some people feel happy to have other people admire their gains at the gym or when their boss tells them they are such a hard worker, or when another guy tells him "Damn, you really can pee farther than me. You should be really proud of yourself, especially since I told you you should be."

Then there are other people--people like me who work hard and get shit done, not because I give a shit about what my boss thinks about me, but because I set goals for myself and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to reach those goals on my own. I think, "Damn, I'm good." Sounds fucking weird doesn't it--a man deriving pleasure all by himself. Now, don't get me wrong of course I derive pleasure from external validation, but for some guys, it's just not the main thing.

I mean you even say in your post:

External validation technically is for you.

Why can't I just cut out the middle man?

So, concluding here, I'll say you really have no grounds to say how anyone else should be happy and that people should just do whatever makes them feel the best.

[–]Endorsed Contributoraaron_the_just0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, people spend lots of time trying to figure out what really matters in life and what they want to live for. Maximising their own personal happiness is one goal, but it's certainly not the only one.

[–]chill_geddy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If I buy a 120 dollar fitted t shirt niggas and niggets a like better recognize the fabric if not I have know problem telling them

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I sometimes give out the advice to limit external sources of validation/self-esteem/happiness, but not for the reasons you cited. It definitely isn't to help them rationalize their misery and doom them to wallow deeper in mediocrity.

It is because most people who view themselves as failures despite focusing all their energy on pleasing others and seeking their approval are completely misreading people. They're too deferential to their acquaintances (not friends), SOs, family and professional superiors. They have a very weak internal sense of self-esteem. They've bought into a skewed perspective where everyone else's opinion matters more than their own. They start becoming risk averse to avoid dealing with the outcomes of failure, which can be devastating to someone this addicted to validation. Getting these kind of people to buy into the notion that they're allowed to form their own opinions and pursue there own interests is difficult.

Encouraging them to cut the cord and start focusing on themselves helps them take a step back and really analyze their life and stop the cycle of approval seeking behavior. Once their attention is diverted back to prioritizing their own needs first, they'll be much less likely to settle for being mediocre.

[–]1iluminatiNYC-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the best to look at it is that a opinion doesn't matter, but individual opinions do matter. One observation isn't something to pay attention to, because that's subjective. If the same people notice the same things about you, it's worth your while to pay attention. Just don't lock on to any one concept.

[–]laere-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This post sort of does make sense. I mean although you're technically working on succeeding in life, you're really just getting external validation as a byproduct in that way. I guess this would be different then constantly going out and seeking it?

[–]cooltrip-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I c&p myself ...

"Anatomical Alphaness brings you women --->> women bring those women's appreciation and admiration for you and your own Alpha qualification --->> This external appreciation for you, from other people, brings you your own internal appreciation for yourself, that is, your self-esteem --->> But this "self-esteem" is not that "self-" since its very first origin relies on external people's appreciation/admiration for yourself; you esteem yourself because others esteem you too, and this happens because you esteem those other people too, and this happens because you need those other people, and this happens because you are weak; so, other people based self-esteem is a weak self-esteem, a dependent self-esteem, not that "self-".

You need non-dependent self-esteem: your self-esteem should not be conditioned by others esteeming you, but it should rely on your own objective and material capabilities and achievements.

Yes, it falls within independence/individuality, but you don't want a faked independence/individuality, but an independence/individuality founded on objective and material capabilities and achievements of yours."

The "for yourself" from "do it for yourself" means that you don't want a self-improvement merely consisting in getting to have sex with girls no matter how ugly and non-Alpha you are, but you want a self-improvement genuinely and authentically consisting in yourself having genuine, authentical, actual Alpha traits, so this achieved self-improvement or Alphaness will attract, by itself, women wanting to have sex with you. So you don't work on women so you get to have sex with them, but without actually improving yourself; but, instead, you work on yourself, so you give yourself authentic and genuine improvement and Alphaness, so this Alphaness will attract women.

I can get even further: even if you know how to have sex with women by beta methods, you don't want to have sex with women as a beta, but as an Alpha. This means that, if you have to choose, it is better to apply yourself to become an actual, genuine, authentic Alpha that won't have sex with any woman; than to apply yourself to get to have sex with women as a beta man or a non-Alpha man.


[–]paradox_life-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not caring what other people think give you 2 critical things if you want to be successful in ANY area of life. Those are confidence and freedom.

Let's say you're fat. Does this affect your success with women negatively? ABSOLUTELY! Should you work hard on getting cutting that fat? ABSOLUTELY! Does the belief that women get turned off because you're fat help you? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And let's face it - you always will have an aspect of your life that you're not good enough or not at the level you should be judged from an external view. Either finances, appearance, sense of humor etc. You should definitely always improve yourself as best you can. But beyond that the right mindset IMO is "Fuck what everyone thinks, I'm awesome enough and I'm getting even better". And that my friend is true confidence. Is it necessarily true that you're enough at all aspects of life? Nope. But you have to believe it.

When it comes to freedom, there is nothing better than not giving a fuck what people think. When you give a fuck about other people's validation too much you fall into the social conditioning shit where you cannot act or think outside the box. You cannot express yourself to the fullest because some people will hate you. IMO the more haters you have, the more successful you are. You will get a lot of haters but also the people that love you will truly cherish you. Haters gonna hate. Never let them stop you express to the fullest, being your true self.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points | Copy

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[–]Endorsed Contributoraaron_the_just-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Correct. I don't like Dockers and polo shirts, but wearing them is necessary when I'm being paid by a particular kind of client.

[–]rj88631-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is about the difference between healthy need for external validation and being an attention whore or needy for any positive attention.

If you cry about no one paying attention to you all day, that is a day wasted not doing things that command attention and respect. Positive actions over empty positive thought.

[–]redpilltree-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think "doing it for yourself" needs a clarification.

If I go to the gym and tell others I'm "doing it for myself", it's true when speaking specifically about the end result of what I want, rather than the means to get that result.

I want (satisfying) sex.

But in order to do so I have to raise my SMV to attract the prospects that I want, to engage in an activity I want and love i.e. sex. Obviously I improve my body's aesthetics to get approval from women but that is but a means to the end of what I want, again, i.e. sex.

Same applies to any other venture, I work to get approval from key individuals/groups because I want to receive good(s)/service(s).

TL:DR Everyone's a selfish cunt just not everyone is honest about it.

[–]Unexpected_Error-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think anyone is saying that people don't need external validation. However, one of the main take-aways I've had from taking the pill is that vying for external validation is almost a guarantee of not receiving any. If you improve your SMV and don't give a fuck (or at least pretend not to) about receiving external validation, then the validation will come flowing. Paradoxically, the most natural thing to do is actually the worst.

Also, to the replier who mentioned TRT: I agree, once my test levels got decent I started needing significantly less external validation.

[–]macsenscam-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is true, but I will add the caveat that if you can mentally not give a shit people will sense that and it can help you get respect. Think of the word "cool," it essentially means not giving a shit. So there is a balance to walk here.

[–]P0eticJustice-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

From the Already Red post that I commented on.

For perspective, I came across RP about August/September '13. I think was before the massive onslaught of new users from countless AskReddit threads, etc. Anyways, I came to it, as you said, as a way to get laid, wondering why being nice pandering to women etc etc wasn't working. It opened my eyes, fantastic all that good stuff. However, it was different then say, r/seduction because it allowed me to see its not all "be an asshole/douche = get laid". It went more in depth into how the mind of women (and men) think and what it means. Being a real man in this world is about all the stuff, doing what you want to get laid, or rather have the opportunity if you so choose to approach and get what you want, be it a ONS or LTR.

The quality of the sub has degenerated, from the "hardcore", slap in the face, "face the reality of what the world is", into something more subtle, where a lot of posts these days are BP examples (which can help, but we don't need a whole front page of them) or "I don't need women, I'm so alpha/RP".

Changing oneself from a stepped on beta to a get-what-he-wants alpha involves so much. Part of it is working out, inner game, all that good stuff. However, the way I see it, is getting laid is the ideal way to see if it all is working for you. Whether or not you want to get with a women shouldn't be decided before approaching, it should be when she's purring at you somewhere just before going in.

I believe that this new MGTOW-like movement has one purpose: It's yet another way for guys who can't get laid to be considered equal to those who actually do get laid. In other words, it's a way redefine success in the sexual marketplace as "opting out" of the sexual marketplace (and these things should never be considered equal).

To me, that's not success. That's failure. Opting out or attempting to redefine your inability to be successful as "it was my choice!" is disingenuous.

I agree. Not doing an approach because you are sure of the outcome is never as RP as getting some and saying "I knew it would work". All the drift from what was the original RP ideal to the slowly dulling to what we see now (I don't want/ need to attract women to be RP) is wrong. The perfect way to see if you are an "ideal" male, alpha, RP, etc, is to make a woman >want< you. Period.

This is long winded and I probably lost my point so if you have questions, instead of shitting on it first, please ask so I can clarify my ideas.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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