If we're living in a time where strict gender boundaries are considered sexist, why are men still held to narrow definitions of masculinity? My manhood is questioned the moment I don't follow. If I dress differently, don't pay for everything, or express emotions, I am judged.

Trail_of_Jeers · 2024-05-03T20:28:50+00:00

Because society does not care about men.

AllGearedUp · 2024-05-03T21:12:50+00:00

It's just performative like so many social "movements".

I asked a self proclaimed feminist once about men paying for women. "why should men pay if men and women are equal?" She said men should pay because they have built up more money from sexism. "What if the woman makes more money than the man?" She said the man should still pay to make up for other men who have more money.

At that point we're going backward. Now we're judging people for their group and not as individuals, which is what civil rights were originally about.

Not all women or people are like this, but the majority of people just choose the easiest group or cause to claim identity with and then use it for selfish reasons.

Just don't play into it. Treat everyone the same and if people insist you treat someone, yourself included, as a member of a group instead of an individual, then they're not worth your time.

stupuff · 2024-05-03T20:34:10+00:00

but but... PATRIARCHY

mrmensplights · 2024-05-03T21:35:33+00:00

It was never about equality. It was about power and making things easier for themselves. Your masculinity is useful to women, so they will have their cake and eat it too. They charge right through hypocrisy while batting an eye.

Unique-Twist-8911 · 2024-05-04T00:28:02+00:00

Because that sentiment is only for women

Men are still supposed to be men

Frird2008 · 2024-05-03T20:02:39+00:00

I started setting high standards. If they see me as less of a man because I do things differently from how society wants me to do them, they shouldn't have a spot in my life to begin with. Womp womp

Grand-Juggernaut6937 · 2024-05-03T21:31:21+00:00

Culture is just a tool to get a population to act in a favorable way. Gender norms still exist for men because they can still be used to motivate us to be useful to others

kkkan2020 · 2024-05-03T19:25:18+00:00

Everything is bullshit that's what I found out.

Repulsive-Lie1 · 2024-05-03T23:03:30+00:00

It’s important to build a social circle of people who will support your choices and not belittle them. This applies to work as well, if you can’t be yourself at work you’re not in the right job.

Grow_peace_in_Bedlam · 2024-05-04T03:21:38+00:00

Since I'm autistic, when I was younger, I naively believed that the relaxation of gender roles for women also applied to men, and that our acceptance of women who don't perfectly conform to every aspect of the feminine gender role similarly extended to us in the opposite direction.

I really wish I'd known sooner that this was not the case. Every boy needs to be taught that this is not the case in order to avoid the suffering that comes from thinking that the golden rule applies on this issue.

Castruccio_Castracan · 2024-05-04T00:42:28+00:00

Traditional masculinity norms are required to force men into the roles society needs them to fulfill. Without men focusing on career and earning, the economy stops. Without men risking life and limb in dangerous jobs, society stops. Without men putting themselves in danger to be first responders, cops, and soldiers, society is unsafe. And so on.

Naturally traditional femininity norms also had a social role, and we see what's happened to society's long-term sustainability (aka birth rate) as a result of their weakinening. But that unfolds over many decades, whereas men leaving traditional masculine roles would bring society to its knees in a much shorter timeframe.

volleyballbeach · 2024-05-04T00:23:48+00:00

Society is still sexist

GalileosTele · 2024-05-03T19:04:10+00:00

All this maybe true. But at the end of the day no one can make you inferior without your permission. Why do you care what others think? Do what you want. There will always be people judging you. It’s up to you if you care or not.

michaelpaoli · 2024-05-04T01:55:16+00:00

If we're living in a time where strict gender boundaries are considered sexist, why are men still held to

We live in hypocritical self-contradictory and inconsistent times. That hasn't changed ... though the flavor(s) thereof do tend to change.

Amalthia_the_Lady · 2024-05-04T18:51:53+00:00

I personally have no issue with anyone being their true self. As long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

If a dude wants to do something stereotypically female, like crochet or knit, have at it. I'll teach you.

Toxic masculinity is engrained in our cultural programming. When girls are raised we are taught about two distinct male stereotypes and anything in between is confusion. Realistically most folk fall between the lines of those stereotypes.

It's starting to change, Dad's are starting to play dress up with their daughters. They're starting to show them that it's okay for a big strong man to be sensitive too.

But changing ideology takes time. Took a long time for me to realize men aren't all like my bio Dad. A terrible example of a human nevermind man.

I imagine the same works for what boys grow up being taught about women by their mothers.

Vaudeville_Clown · 2024-05-05T07:54:31+00:00

There's only one trait dubbed masculine/dominant thar we should all live by, no matter who you are and that's: Stick to your guns and refuse to back down!

To be sure, my job would run a lot smoother as a service person if I slightly lowered my pitch of voice, if I slightly assumed a more manly demeanor. Maybe, I'd advance quicker then, be trusted sooner by everyone around, but here's the thing, my work output is on point and if people judge me on my demeanor, they can all get fucked, basically.

I have no sympathy or tolerance to some people's oversocial and mindless flock behavior which breeds conformity.

When I was dating, it was the same thing. If women only warmed up to you in case you fronted this very masculine self, they could piss off as far as I was concerned. The moment you see it, they're unlikable and unlovable. (It takes a bit longer to find an atypical woman who's completely on the outside of the whole masc/fem dynamic, but it's possible if you double down)

The underlying point here is not exactly Just Be Yourself. Well it is, but not in the way people generally mean it.

It means, if people expect you to adapt, they're never worth wasting the effort on. None of them are. This is a caustically unsocial stance tbh, but it's a good one. It will cost you, but also build pride and self esteem.

mhk23 · 2024-05-04T01:55:07+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/live/9CGduTEpTgw?feature=shared

HenryCGk · 2024-05-04T14:59:35+00:00

Are you sure that you are better off being perceived as masculine.

I kind of don't have time to care about people who would place limits on me.

Maverick-_1 · 2024-05-04T15:05:51+00:00

Because women positively select for evolutionarily subconsciously (still) running on instincts predominantly derived from paleolithicum.

And men doing often everything supposedly needed to get with them.

Caveat: because of female nature.

Financial_Loan1337 · 2024-05-04T06:05:46+00:00

When You're Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression. Simplest & best explanation.

Sharp_Hope6199 · 2024-05-04T12:27:33+00:00

You’re confusing individuals for the group. Some people, men and women, consider strict gender boundaries sexist. Others do not. Some people are judgy, others are not.

It isn’t because people don’t care about men, that’s silly.

People are individuals. If they treat you poorly, please honor yourself and find new people.

bluehorserunning · 2024-05-04T03:52:04+00:00

FWIW, this isn't as bad in left-wing spaces as in right wing spaces. There just isn't as much gender enforcement. It's still bad, especially for men, don't get me wrong - still unfair - but the level of performative masculinity/femininity that people have to do isn't as extreme.

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