I wanna talk to a girl in my class, but...

2024-07-14T04:52:37+00:00

My advice is to take The time to really consider what kind of woman you find attractive solely based on their character. The girl that you find attractive sounds very superficial. Women have their own standards but so do we as men. You don't have to be with somebody that don't appreciate you for who you are due to her standards regardless if it's reasonable or unreasonable. If you ask her to where she rejects you and she was being rude about it, would you actually like to get to know her? She'll would probably disrespect you if y'all were to get in a relationship together anyways. You don't have to date women that make you feel like a slave. I highly recommend raising your standards when looking for a woman as will protect you from dating the wrong women. Edit: me personally, if a girl made me feel I was a slave , I would have seen as a red flag/ unattractive just as an ugly girl. If a woman don't respect my boundaries, I would not find her attractive .

Vegetable_Ad1732 · 2024-07-14T03:15:49+00:00

I've been MGTOW since I was a kid. To be honest, what made that kind of easy to do, was women. I mean, most of the times when you approach a female, usually they're dismissive at best, and rude at worst. Then I think to myself "Yeah, thanks for reminding me why you're not worth bothering with."

SidewaysGiraffe · 2024-07-14T04:46:23+00:00

There's a lot to unpack here.

Let's start with the most pressing: a girlfriend is not a therapist (unless she is, but even then, she's not YOUR therapist). Isolation can warp your mind, and keep you from having the stability needed to be in a relationship. If you want to head in this direction, you need ground yourself first- and if you want to head somewhere else, it's still a good idea. Build yourself up- find some new friends, maybe reach out to family; get a constructive support system going. It'll make your life better, AND make you a better potential partner for someone.

Now, what, specifically, do you think would be a betrayal? You're worried about being a doormat, no disagreement there, but talking to someone is just talking. Every step you take in a relationship with someone, regardless of the type of relationship, is taken one step at a time. Think through what you do before you do it, and if you have a problem, say something. Don't be aggressive- putting someone on the defensive isn't going to win them over- but be assertive, and see if there's another way to work it out so you both get what you want.

I mean, if you're walking into a store, and as you head to the door you see someone close behind you carrying a bunch of boxes, you'd get the door for them, right? And you're not going to stop and check to see if they're the correct gender to help, are you? Of course not; it's just basic courtesy, the kind of thing anyone should do for anyone else, since it makes the world a better and more pleasant place. When you're dating someone, you're willing to do more, since they mean more to you- but so are they, since you mean more to THEM.

Third- don't spend too much time here. Reading through the posts on this forum would give you the idea that women are a cabal of evil witches, out to rain misery down on men for their own profit and amusement. And there ARE women like that, no question, but most aren't nearly so bad. They're benefiting from a system designed to prop them up at the expense of men, but that's mostly because they haven't thought about it, or have been lied to for their whole lives. Bringing these issues up, carefully and without aggression or accusation, may find you a surprising amount of sympathy. This place is like watching the news; you only hear the worst stuff, cast in the worst possible light. Some contact with regular, normal humans will help keep you sane.

This-Top7398 · 2024-07-14T03:46:23+00:00

Focus on yourself stop worrying about women

guardian416 · 2024-07-14T08:45:18+00:00

Someone always has to take the first step. The key is to set boundaries not to never talk to women imo. You don’t need to be a slave, a lot of women are willing to offer reciprocity but you need to set your standards + boundaries and stick to them. I don’t think not speaking first should be a boundary but paying for 4 dates in a row by yourself should be. Stuff like that.

Igualdad23M · 2024-07-14T10:39:11+00:00

You aren't betraying your ideals for wanting to get a girlfriend, it's fine if you want to be loved.

But I don't think it's a good idea to get into a relationship just to not to be alone, that makes you actually vulnerable to end up like your cousin, a slave of your partner and she may take advantage of that. It's ok to want to be loved but it's not a good idea if you desire to get a girlfriend to not be alone.

Do I recommend you to take up a hobby first, a hobby in which you can interact with people if possible, so you can feel some fulfilment and then look for a girlfriend so your desire for getting laid doesn't come from necessity but because you like her and you get along with her

Being alone sucks but it doesn't mean that getting a girlfriend will make you happier

AirSailer · 2024-07-14T14:12:21+00:00

Nature put men in a very disadvantageous position... We have a biological need to spread our seed but women's hidden ovulation and long investment necessary for procreation means they have the upper-hand in intersexual dynamics. At your age that need can be overwhelming.

You, however, have other problems. Whether you should or shouldn't persue her is mute given your current situation... You're broke with no job and no money, the main things a woman is looking for in a mate. You need to work on yourself to put yourself in an advantageous position to increase your chances of sexual success with women. You say you're in "class" but that could mean anything. Have you written out your goals, identified what you need to accomplish them and compiled a realistic timeline of when you want to accomplish them?

Harry_Johnston · 2024-07-14T15:40:18+00:00

Relationships are give and take, you have to put work into it and so does your partner. Men typically do make the first move, and have done throughout history, it's not really a new phenomena, typically women have far more options available to them because they are biologically wired to be quite alot more picky, and it's for good reason, women have to carry a child for 9 months, and if their partner isn't suitable they may have to look after that child alone.

My advice would be to just go for it, chat to this girl, see how things go, but you also should look into joining some clubs or societies (I'm assuming you're an uni student). You have to accept that as men we have to make the first move 95% of the time. Also don't be disheartened if it doesn't work out. If you approach and chat to a large number of girls, you probably won't be successful 100% of the time, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth it. Most importantly though, don't just try and get into a relationship because you're lonely, you might settle for someone who isn't right for you.

Edit: Don't use your cousins casual relationships as examples for what relationships should be. A good relationship is monogamous. In his case it sounds purely transactional, and why shouldn't it be? What would those women get from sleeping around with that man? Why should a woman sleep with a man if that man is not going to provide any attractive qualities in return?

Bokoman91 · 2024-07-14T04:37:03+00:00

first toss out idea helping women consider "slave" instead think about in relationship we suppose have fair divided effort in both side's and when you do something with you partner is common sense for her to give you something but it have to be genuine not obligation .

second relationship won't help with you'r loneliness you think it will be unfortunately will only fill void for short period before these empty feelings comebacks again , I suggest you make some friend's and find what makes you happy .

think about this woul'd you rather date someome positive and have less problem's or someone lonely and seemingly depressed ?

people want stability and comfort above all else and right now you have none which is okay bein in twenties is too early to gain stability and comfort in life but make that as objective. good luck pal and cheerup you are gentlemen

I_Gilgamesh · 2024-07-14T06:06:05+00:00

Romantic Literature is usually written by rich love smitten morons who didn't really have to work a day in their lives. And so in their la la land of life everything is perfect with their unicorn girl.

But in reality You will be lonelier with a girl . Everything has to revolve around her or else there will be chaos. If the gyno is psycho enough you might end up in jail and thus ruining your future career prospects.

And love? marriage? it only benefits women. You are a bank cheque. If it bounces she bounces. The only expectation a man can have is to not be alone in his death bed. That's what pop culture hammered into our brain. That dying surrounded by your loved ones is the most rewarding death.

But how many of your family would clean your piss, shit, vomit as you lay there dying irl? Hell, these days daughters make tik tok videos of their father's deaths. That's how loving a family is to a man.

Literature lies. Man is indeed an island unto himself.

Temporary_Arm584 · 2024-07-14T04:43:09+00:00

Life is a value exchange.

There is always value being traded no matter who or what the relationship is. You need to figure out how to create value in life so people want to be around you. (I’m saying this for friends as well as females in future if u decide to go down that route).

Humans are selfish. If someone says they’re not, they’re lying. You have to care about you first or you die. You need to satisfy your metabolism as priority or you die.

So every single behavior you have is an extension of survival, period.

Without providing value to another person, they’re not going to be able to gain from being around you.

It’s raw but that’s what it is.

Are you educated?

Sad-Persimmon-5484 · 2024-07-14T12:55:21+00:00

If you want a girlfriend go ahead just understand the risks

UbiquitousWobbegong · 2024-07-14T07:03:52+00:00

You have a very distorted perspective of relationships, gender roles, and women. I don't say that to condescend to you. I say it because I know exactly how you feel. I can tell right away that you spend a lot of time in certain echo chambers. You have a lot of ideas swirling around in your head that need to be challenged to balance them out.

The first big one is this idea that men and women have this transactional relationship where you are their slave in exchange for sex. That's not what healthy relationships are. You're not supposed to be haggling about what you can trade for what you want. You should both care about each other and want to help each other. If one side is doing all the giving, that relationship isn't reciprocal, and it should end. Now, disclaimer, a lot of people don't understand this these days. Especially young people. But that's why you date someone before you marry them. You're figuring out if they are a worthwhile person to spend your life with.

The second issue I'm seeing here is that you're butting up against traditional gender roles vs equality. I get it, women want equality but they also won't make the first move. Yes. They are every bit as hypocritical as they sound in that regard. I have only one thing to say in response:

Suck it up.

Unless you accept that being the leader is going to often fall on you, you will be lonely and miserable for the rest of your life. You aren't going to change this behavior in women. We don't have that power. So lean into your traditional gender role, or let womens' unwillingness to live by their principles in this regard condemn you to loneliness.

I know that it feels unfair, and it is. But you can fight for an equal relationship after you make the first step. My wife and I are partners. Did I pay for the first date? Sure I did. But once she and I were mutually interested in a relationship, I pushed for us to take turns treating each other. She has had to carry more weight at times in our relationship, and at other times I have had to carry more. But we work together because her happiness is my happiness, and vice versa.

Finding an equitable relationship takes time and effort. The first girl you date probably won't be the one. You need to get started if you want to find someone eventually. And the first step is being the one willing to make the first move.

Jaded-Help1860 · 2024-07-14T04:01:25+00:00

This is literally my story minus the brother part. After a silent rejection from the only girl I’ve ever loved as a kid, I realized how much time and energy I had wasted trying to get her attention. It disgusted me to think what a big simp I had become in the process. I forced myself to not fall in love again. I always tried making the first move in spite of having social anxiety, but she never reciprocated and it’s okay; she is not obligated to accept me because maybe I didn’t fit her preferences. But I lost respect for myself when I recalled the things I had to do to make sure she looked at me. I befriended every guy who sat next to her so that they could talk to her about me.

Yep, that’s the level of desperation I had and I cringe when I think about it. After that, my heart wasn’t ready to fall again fearing rejection. The only way I think I’m getting a girl is by getting married, but for that I need a job and I’m delaying my job hunt because I don’t want to get married. Too many bad experiences as well as gynocentric laws in my society exist to ruin my life if I ever get married. I have learned my lesson, and I’m better off being reclusive and hiding my emotions rather than opening up to the wrong woman.

Sam__Toucan · 2024-07-14T17:43:26+00:00

Stop analysing the situation, just go and talk to her

Avadark · 2024-07-14T18:03:00+00:00

Just go for it gang. Maybe she could be good.

mrmensplights · 2024-07-14T18:54:05+00:00

Don't do all the work to please women with no return. Don't crawl behind women to get their attention. Approach women you are interested in for your own benefit. Walk away if it stops being to your benefit. If she rejects you then it's no longer to your benefit to stay so leave. Once you rise to the idea, having the expectation to approaching is actually the better position to be. You engage with women on your own terms and you get direct feedback from the attempt.
Don't act like a slave. Your "chad" cousin is treated like a slave because the relationships he's in are fundamentally transactional by nature. Demonstrate value instead. Forge your own path for your own benefit and try to attract women who want to attach themselves to your rising star rather than women who want to trade sex for rides and clothes.
"Creep". Men are in an impossible situation today. If you don't approach women you end up alone, but if you approach them you put yourself in danger. Unfortunately, to win you have to play the probabilities while hedging your bets. Be safe: Disengage early on rejection, do things in relative public, keep a paper trail, and don't try to force anything. Above all, get comfortable with being called a creep. When women are approached if they consider themselves "too good" for you they are generally extremely nasty and bitter and say all kinds of mean shit. You have to keep in mind the judgment of one woman is not the judgment of all women, and also that the judgement of women in regards to men is often wrong. If you are overly focused on her judgement of you will naturally feel a need to 'perform' to meet what you imagine are her criteria and that is betraying yourself. One important trick is to remember that your judgment is equally important. A woman who tries to tear you down is trashy. You should judge her as not being worth of you. You aren't a seal performing tricks. She has to meet your criteria as well.

Anyway. Don't betray yourself. You are opposed to being a simp and to being a slave for pussy. You aren't opposed to being with women, or engaging with women for your own self interest. A good relationship is mutually beneficial. She'll take care of her self interest and you take care of yours. If things turn south just walk away.

HauntedJuice · 2024-07-14T20:54:30+00:00

Just leave her a note that says "Ask me out"

Ptoney1 · 2024-07-14T22:39:53+00:00

You’re young. If you make the right decisions now, you can set yourself up to be a power player (money, options) in a relationship.

If you do decide to ask her out, and she says no, you’ll have to deal with the awkwardness of that after the fact in a semi-public way, so keep that in mind.

Adventurous_Bat8573 · 2024-07-14T23:41:58+00:00

You like the girl.

We want women to approach us when they are interested, why do we need a double standard for this?

Don't do ALL the work. Just do some of it.

Ask her out, but don't be desperate about it.

Braindead_Nihilist · 2024-07-15T02:39:28+00:00

Look man, you're young and have time to make mistakes. Don't be afraid to do so. I've been the "creepy guy" before. If you're genuine about your intentions people will see through any bullshit labels they might try to stick on you. Simple as. That said, figure out what this is going to be from the start, and stick to it. If you're interested in a relationship, sexual, romantic, or otherwise, say so. She's free to say no. Accept it and move on. Don't bother asking why, or get upset, just say ok and be done. If she says yes, great! But keep to the honesty. Don't waffle around. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If you're lonely and looking for friendship, keep to that. Don't try to be her friend and then try to be more than that, it doesn't work and makes people second guess your intentions from there on. That's how you get labeled as a creep. Best of luck to you young man.

Zealousideal-War6604 · 2024-07-15T06:35:43+00:00

Talk to the girls, it is good training and men need to learn to entertain women, ie humor and relaxed teasing. If you want a girlfriend I would go for girls a little younger than 23, like 3 -4years (I am guessing they are same age as you). Girls at 23 are at their prime and she is looking for boys 3-7 years older. Remeber your prime age is at 35+ if you have your life in good order (house, job, money, education, lifiting weights).

miraak2077 · 2024-07-15T09:49:11+00:00

Well you have to give something man. It's not take take take. Plus who knows if she even likes you so that's why she hasn't talked to you

Fritzbox5000 · 2024-07-15T10:37:50+00:00

Look, I (36) have been a MGTOW my whole life. I was an incel in my youth and rejected the opportunities later on, whena total of two or three girls showed interest in me.

I believe that my life is much better without a woman on my side, because I fear to lose my freedom and quality of life due to the responsibilities you have to take in a relationship.

However, I read a lot of generelizations in your post, which won't lead you to any good. If YOU want a relationship with a girl, YOU need to do the first step. She doesn't need to because she has far more options than you. If you don't talk to her, another guy will and your opportunity will be gone.

You don't need to do the whole program like inviting her to dinner and pay for all that shit, but there is nothing wrong in saying hello and start a conversation. If she responds positively, shows interest herself, you can go another step further and decide, if she is the right match for you. If not, try your luck with another girl, if you really want a relationship.

There are good advices in all ideologies like red pill, black pill, MGTOW, men's right activism, but also a lot of bullshit and general demonization and dehumanization of women by incels who want to reflect their self-hatred towards all women in the world. Don't get deluded by the horror stories of men eating gold diggers, but don't be too naive as well - especially when it comes to marriage and stuff. Just use your common sense. The world is not black and white, there are good women out there, but it takes time and effort to distinguish between good and bad persons in general.

Alternative-Oil-6288 · 2024-07-15T17:31:56+00:00

Wait until the end of the course and ask for her number if you get along (if you have her number, offer to take her out). She could be dope as fck, just be open to her not being cool and being okay to end it and it’s no worry.

2024-07-17T10:13:33+00:00

This is entirely on you, mate.

I'd suggest seeking a therapist. Best of luck.

GreyFoxSolid · 2024-07-14T09:40:13+00:00

You have some really warped ideas about women. Consider actually getting to know women, in non sexual ways, and then reconsider your positions.

denach644 · 2024-07-14T12:58:42+00:00

Men have always chased women, unless they're some top 1% man.

So, assuming averages, there's nothing wrong with asking the girl first. You never know how it will land.

The rest of your post is just you inventing 100 reasons about why you can't talk to this girl, rather than realizing the 100 reasons you can.

A good idea here is to pump the brakes a bit on the self destruction and try to reframe your mind a bit. Yes, there are inequalities. Yes, some trends are horrible. However - asking a woman out doesn't mean you're in for some hellish experience. Rather, this is something as old as human history. Men give women protection or do nice things for them (this is romance), and women provide other things in return. Relationships always have a degree of transactional nature, but a good relationship is full of mutual desire. You can be good to each other and nobody is a slave. True slave relationships are the ones where one person gives it all and gets nothing back. Example, you provide financially but she is ice cold towards you - certainly no sex, or only occasionally to keep you around... You can recognize these relationships and avoid them, honestly. Have hope, please!

These problems in life that you come up with are really just a product of your own insecurities, failings, etc. You probably need to learn how to face yourself before you could expect a woman to like you - and I think you know this. Blame women for you being "a slave", but blame yourself for being some 23 year old nobody. You don't have to be a somebody for the sake of women - you become a somebody for yourself, first, and women are just a byproduct of that.

You don't look at women who are off putting. You can't expect a woman to not have some similar standards.

Relationships can actually be great if you take your time to vet people and develop it from there. But you should work on yourself and how you feel internally, first, before turning this vitriol towards women and damning yourself to this vicious involuntary celibacy. Please, OP.

Send me a DM. Let's talk. I'd rather see you succeed and be happy, but your head needs a shake.

toblotron · 2024-07-14T05:33:03+00:00

With all due respect, my first thought is that you seem to be fixating too much on negative things and "gender war" here.

You don't want to make any effort at all to be attractive? Ok, but do you think you would be interested in any woman that made zero effort to be attractive?

I think there are some thoughtful pieces of advice in this thread - mine are mainly relax, try to be fair, realize nobody's love-life is necessarily something that happens without effort.

Women are neither better nor worse people than men. They are just subject to other outside and inside influences (compared to men), which make them even harder to understand than a person who is more similar to yourself would be

Bad_Routes · 2024-07-14T14:12:20+00:00

Dude it's like a dance take it step by step. Imma be real w u and say drop the whole "betraying yourself" bs, reasonable women don't want their man to be a slave either. U viewing actions of love for a partner to feel desired is the same shit feminazis say abt cooking and cleaning for their man etc.

Drop the stupid terminology like chads, betas, alphas blah blah blah. It is super unattractive and it makes me avoid dudes bc they don't make good friends, in my experience they are miserable they only complain and this ties into u not wanting to change for women which is half right. U should change to better yourself and women being attracted to u is the byproduct of those many tiny decisions. U seem to be stopped halfway where u just want ppl to accept what u believe is the worst version of yourself.

Just commit to MGTOW but stop complaining abt being forced too.

I'm not trying to be too accusatory but this all starts with you and you're not doing yourself any favors by thinking those way. At the very end of the day start talking to ppl and make friends first, u only thinking to talk to a woman to get a relationship is very off base and won't get u far

MozartFan5 · 2024-07-14T03:36:17+00:00

Perhaps consider dating women in other countries or even women in the USA from different cultures and countries?

picksomebodyelse96 · 2024-07-14T03:41:15+00:00

This reads as satire. How can people be this tone def??? Crazy.

SleepLivid988 · 2024-07-14T05:49:58+00:00

As a woman, talk to her first. Become friends. Then see if it’s something you’d like to pursue. You seem to have a lot of ideas about women and relationships that are from the internet that aren’t true in the real world. A true relationship should be with someone you could be friends with, share common interests with, enjoy each other’s company. Just because a woman is attractive to you doesn’t mean you two would be a good match.

Few-Procedure-268 · 2024-07-14T03:26:23+00:00

Your attitude suggests dating wouldn't be pleasant for you or the girl. Maybe concentrate on making some friends to address your loneliness and isolation.

SarcasticallyCandour · 2024-07-14T10:49:57+00:00

Ask her to a diner if you want to. Keep it simple as a test for high maintenance. You dont want to go Michelin star restaurant as it will be expected always and give the wrong impression.

Dont go mgtow if you're not happy with that, its not for everyone.

Fresque · 2024-07-14T14:54:24+00:00

Wacho, me parece que lo mejor es que te quedes soltero.

Fickle_Ad_2825 · 2024-07-14T15:07:35+00:00

It is always the concept of demand and supply. An avg woman is approached by n no of males so she has a very big pool to choose from therefore she can afford to be dismissive or rude because she knows the queue is very long. You should approach or not - I leave it upto you, but take the decision from your brain and remember one thing which is extremely important - Success is not optional for males it is mandatory. If you don't realize it now you will realize it later

ms4720 · 2024-07-14T05:25:27+00:00

What is your goal? It sounds like your goal is complaining about how life is unfair to you. Life is unfair to everyone, you are not special.

Now on to the I hate being alone and do not want to do what is needed to not be alone, when stated that clearly isn't that a bit stupid?

You honestly sound like someone of low social and self worth, why should a woman care if you are alive or not. This applies to the few good ones out there and the rest of them.

So fix all your shit and be worth a woman's attention and you will get it, that simple and in this case simple is also hard. You fix you and the rest takes care of itself.

DazzlingApartment0 · 2024-07-18T02:16:37+00:00

Seems like youre really angry and unhappy. Maybe go into therapy or look into self help. Your ideas of what dating and being in a reltaitonship are kinda... unhealthy

bootybanditttz · 2024-07-14T07:58:23+00:00

I didn’t read the total thing but forget the negative thoughts bro jus go do it in 10 years you will regret not talkin to her and telling her how you feel when you see her with a bum

Your not a slave your a king your talkin to the wrong ones

Title	I wanna talk to a girl in my class, but...
Author	Alive_Picture_4864
Upvotes	74
Comments	103
Date	July 14, 2024 3:02 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1e2s2id/i_wanna_talk_to_a_girl_in_my_class_but/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-wanna-talk-to-a-girl-in-my-class-but.1524244 https://theredarchive.com/post/1524244

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